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Who are the French in Modern World Politics?


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#1 Hostile

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 06:21 AM

I bring this question up because it is an interesting question. As a permanent member of the UN Security Council, I rarely see them. Even when they choose to participate, they seem to only half heartedly.

Take for example the latest in Lebanon, many around the world were let down by the lack of leadership from the French. I was very pleased to see Italy step up. As they have in the past few years. Reminds me when they lopped off the Italians hostage's head in Iraq, he had the balls to say " Now you'll see how an Italian dies!" And then he was killed.

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The French completely appears as a forefront opponent to Iranian nuke developement. Based on recent history, I have to ask how far they will go to stand up to it.

http://jihadwatch.or...ives/009827.php Funny blog, opinionated of course. Read with caution...
http://www.washingto...6021601090.html While talking the talk, will they walk the walk?

Now the French did participate in Afghanistan. How could any nation not? They blew up 2000 year old Buddha statues.

France (Opération Héraclès): 4,500 troops including 3,500 for the Marine Nationale (one CVBG, comprising the FS Charles de Gaulle, frigates La Motte-Picquet, Jean de Vienne and Jean Bart, the nuclear attack submarine Rubis, the tanker Meuse and the aviso Commandant Ducuing), 600 for the Armée de l'Air (12 Mirage 2000, Mirage F1 and Mirage IV ground-attack and reconnaissance aircraft), 600 to International Security Assistance Force; 200 special forces for 2003. Three French soldiers have died during OEF (as well as four under ISAF): two in an ambush and one to small arms fire.


Taken from http://en.wikipedia....f_the_coalition

Now I'm not here to bash the French (I still use a capital F when writing France :ohmy: ) But this is a nation that even chose to not vote in a constitution for the EU. Clearly a nation in denial. Do they act like they do to avoid terrorist attacks?

Yet thier own muslim population runs riots... http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/4407688.stm

Isn't it time for them to understand, you can run but you can't hide from Islamic facists? Let's look at what parts of the world are "experiencing" muslim facist issues. France, Italy, Eastern europe, UK, Russia, China, Middle East, South east asia, South America for gods sake are now being infilltrated.

In a way it's simliar to the "Christian" experience in infiltration done from the 1600's-present. But instead of crosses, they carry AK-47s. We all understand China and Russia balance the ticket between the US and the UK, so what's that make the fifth UN Permanent Security Council member, France? Apparently, not bothered enough to participate much.

Make some bold statements and than go back to thier 7 week annual average vacation time, when the US averages only 12.7 days vaction time in the same 12 month period. Germany also averages 7 weeks/per year, even Japan 5 weeks a year.

So who is working the hardest globally? And who is trying to put forth a plan stop Islamic facists? What country's military loses lives in more countries than any other? But no matter what the US does, it's slammed around the world.

Yet if we chose to do nothing like we did in WWI and WWII, and just watch the system run itself into WWIII, than it would also be our fault for doing nothing to stop it.

There is a certain irony in the whole thing. I find it somewhat staggering...

#2 chemical ali

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 10:44 AM

The French main thing is that they only want to protect their own skins. Sold weapons to Iraqis after GW1, trying to do it to the Iranians, sold weapons to the Argentinians. Neither of these regimes have been particurly nice to any of Frances Nato Allies in the last 20 odd years.

Back home in France the political situation is right wing vs very right wing, earlier this year you had all the riots in France. Now this would of been worse as they have a very large radical Muslim population if you had gone to war it would of been a nightmare trying to contol them.

Now in the UK all the Muslims want us to change the foriegn policy they were politely told to fuck off by the Government, France has admited defeat in the War on Terror, their piss poor effort in Afghanistan and Lebanon only goes to show they don't care. Personally I think we should kick them out of the Security Council and put in India and Pakistan.

The reason they didn't vote on the EU is because they didn't like it, because they want to only protect their self intrests the EU constitution would not allow that.
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#3 duke_Qa

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 11:36 AM

is it not better to work with the assumption that there wont be war than it is to presume that there will be? the french may not have started many wars, and they might have surrendered more often than we have, but its a philosophy that usually leads to less violence than more.

also, the last few wars i've read about, it has usually been the main aggressor that have gone down. especially in these days where world opinion is a very important factor aswell. its better to try diplomatic solutions until there is no other solution, instead of going preemptive strike on someone and get the world opinion against you. be the one that is being attacked, not the attacker.

the problem with beating down fundamentalist muslims in harder ways than we are doing now is that even more will be radicalised, and you are stuck in an evil circle...

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#4 Drewry

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 04:24 PM

The answer is very simple. Why can't France choose to not participate in a war that it does not agree with. That is the right of a sovereign nation. Why should the UK and US try and pressure France into doing something that the nation clearly does not want to be involved with. There are many people in the US and UK that feel that this war is illegal, and that it goes against all human rights laws. It is the same reason there are thousands of soldiers deserting from the war. Because they do not agree with it. It is sort of the same situation, think of in highschool there are a few kids doing something really bad, but as soon as someone stands up and says its not right then they all attack him and want to kick him out of the group. I think France is being brave to not go with the momentum of the almighty American politics.
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#5 Silent_Killa

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 05:50 AM

Thought I posted this yesterday... really need to get more sleep...

but anyways, France is looking out for their own interests. Just like every other country in the world does. When this became a crime in the international community I have no idea.
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#6 Jeeves

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:36 AM

Holyshit! They don't go about invading people?!? They must be terrorists, nuke them!

Just because they don't lick Bush doesn't make any nation the bad guy, and not all facists are Islamic. And if a nation can retain a possition as a dominant world power without having to resort to bullying lesser ones, the good for them. And for the record, I hate the ******* French.

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#7 MSpencer

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 04:36 PM

I rather like the French. They keep a moderated view on most things, and they're kind of torn between two sides. Since 1918, they've tried to keep out of most disputes, but there is still a prevailing DeGaullean sentiment in the populace, some sort of blind foolish nationalism that hides behind walls. They don't want to get involved in anything, but because of that sentiment they're unable to even admit that they're wrong, so they come across as utterly illogical and foolish.
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#8 Cossack

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 08:53 PM

I agree with you spence...I do like the French. I just visited France and I quite enjoyed the nation and the people, and think about it....if every other nation in the world (including islamic fascists!) acted the same way as the french, and just sat there and did nothing but mind there own damned business, wouldn't the world be a whole lot better off?

#9 Hostile

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 09:11 PM

I think you all are missing a major point, they are a leader of the UN Security Council. Leaders cannot be reactive, they must be proactive. Sitting there minding your own business suggests maybe they should pass that veto power to another proactive nation.

Like Japan, or India, or maybe Germany. You cannot lead by sitting on your ass, riding the fence, playing sterile politics...

#10 Cossack

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 09:53 PM

Perhaps the French are setting a good example for the other members of the security council, in teaching them not to make rash decisions that could prove to be distastrous later on without first fully analysing the situation. *cough* patriot act *cough*

#11 MSpencer

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 10:28 PM

Precisely. If nobody runs around and does rash things like the United States or Israel, world gets a bit mroe peaceful. Even the "barbarians" as they're often portrayed in China don't do what we do...
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#12 Hostile

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 12:45 AM

I'm game, I'm open to a good explanation why the French are "so wise" and yet still retain a veto on the UN Security Council.

Why a reactive government is a good thing, when leaders should act as leaders? It's such a great example that the US tried it in the last two world wars. It's called isolationism.

Which is fine, as long as you don't hold a veto on the world stage called the UN Security Council. You can't isolate yourself AND hold a proactive veto.

If you are not a world player, and choose to not be, than step down, STFU, and let more proactive countries assume that responsibility.

Either the French are gonna step up or STFU, you can't pretend to not be a player, hold UN Security Council veto power, and not "play the game"

#13 duke_Qa

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 12:59 AM

seconded, exept on the topic of the barbarian stuff, i don't want to mess around with the chinese too much...

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#14 CodeCat

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 01:20 AM

But this is a nation that even chose to not vote in a constitution for the EU. Clearly a nation in denial.

The Netherlands also voted against. While I voted for myself. And yet I support France in its decision. So I'm having trouble seeing the connection between the EU constitution and its position in the security council.

If you are not a world player, and choose to not be, than step down, STFU, and let more proactive countries assume that responsibility.

No. I think France is doing pretty well right now. Agreeing with everyone else isn't what France is in the security council for. It is a SECURITY COUNCIL, not just a bunch of yes men. France said no, as is its right. You can't opt to kick them out just because they don't agree with you. Because if they'd all agree, what would be the use of a veto? In fact, why even have a security council if everyone just says yes to each other? France said no, as is not only its right but also its duty when it is being pressured into going against what it believes is right.

Besides, if there's any country that would be calling the kettle black when it comes to 'own interests', it's the US...
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#15 Cossack

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 01:47 AM

Why is it that you think that to be a leader, you must be proactive? The leaders of the UN are supposed to do what is best for the good of the world, and sometimes sitting back and doing nothing is the best solution for problems. Like I stated before, we need some moderated members on the Security Council to prevent its other members from doing something stupid just because they are pissed off about something.

#16 MSpencer

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 01:52 AM

Proactive causes wars. Proactive is interventionist, interventionists end up starting conflicts like World War I and World War II, which claimed millions upon millions of lives.
If you want another one of those wars, fine, sack France and any other country that doesn't jump into Iraq.
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