18 replies to this topic

[Pastinator]

Ok, this so far has been mostly a bible bashing forum, SO i want everybody to say something good religion has done for all of us, even if they are atheists. I myself am an athiest, and find it hard to comprehend the ideas of religion, but i see it has done a lot of good for us all.

Here's a starter: It taught the masses that discrimination agianst colour was wrong(all major religions teach this)

Now post!

[Elerium]

Religion instilled basic laws and ethics to stop people from fragging peoples heads with a big club 1000 or so years ago. Now that people are continuously solving how the universe works i.e. the atom, the universe and the theories behind it, Religion is being neglected, partially due to how 'unbelievable' it may seem in the Bible, Koran etc. It also kept the people together in the belief that there is an afterlife judging you on how 'good' you have been, so yeah it does have its methods of controlling people against their animalistic instincts.

Religion also kept people back, which is why there was no development for centuries thanks to the Church.

So its pretty much of a two way thing. Religion was made back then to keep order, but when change was needed, Science was refused to keep the order. Now with this change in our century with Science and whatnot, Religion is being refused because now we have things in place to now keep the order, and also it is becoming disproved.

I believe in God myself personally, but I also believe in Science also. Every part of a Human works as it should from the capillaries to the Brain, same as the universe. It leads me to believe that something like this must have started from somewhere in my opinion. Of course you could say alternatively that after millions of years of Evolution created the perfect animal (us), which I also believe and that nature (cosmic and planet) adapts itself to every situation.

Edited by Elerium, 01 September 2006 - 05:15 PM.

[CodeCat]

Seems a bit elitist to call yourself perfect. Humans killing each other, is that perfect? Power is not perfection. Overpopulation is not perfection. And calling yourself perfect CERTAINLY isn't perfection.

[Elerium]

Seems a bit elitist to call yourself perfect. Humans killing each other, is that perfect? Power is not perfection. Overpopulation is not perfection. And calling yourself perfect CERTAINLY isn't perfection.

You misjudge what I say. I meant to say the Human is the perfect result so far of nature. I.e. self thinking, free will unlike the animals, able to uncover the mysteries of the universe. I mean this in anatomical terms, not mental terms. Although you could say that all this was part of a mutation, but in some cases mutations can be beneficial.

Edited by Elerium, 01 September 2006 - 05:21 PM.

[Pastinator]

yeah, good point, sorry, but this thread is ONLy for pointing out the good in religion, seeing as how everybody in this forum seems to hate it , i just wanna point out that it has done a lot of good!

[MSpencer]

We're hardly the perfect result of nature. We're as evolutionarily developed as every other organism on this planet. We've all had a nearly equal amount of time to evolve from our ancestor species, and we've all had a chance to accumulate an even amount of genetic differences. Cats are just as evolutionarily adapted as we are, we just fill a different niche, that of a long distance running scavenger meant for the plains of Africa, while a domestic housecat fills the niche of a small mammalian predator meant for temperate climates (Or a fat, furry carnivore that sleeps on the couch). There aren't many neural differences between you and an octopus, and if they lived longer than a few years, they probably would have developed sophisticated communication long ago. To say we're the most selected species through the process of natural selection is a very, very common mistake that everyone makes once or twice. We are one of the more sophisticated organisms on the planet (Although there are some more sophisticated in terms of overall sophistication of development, anatomy, and neural structure), and we are certainly the most intelligent if not for our capacity to learn and retain information but for our lifespan, but each organism on the planet can trace its roots back to the same strain of bacteria as a common ancestor, and every currently extant species has had that much time to develop through splitting off of various clades and the like. We're all even in that respect, the difference is, in the very simplified but fairly accurate system of the up and coming game Spore, we've "invested" more "points" into our mental capacity than our physical abilities.

As far as religion doing something good for me, well, let's start with the discrimination thing. Can't forget what started a good chunk of slavery, the exploitation of Africa, which was due to imperialism, and religious zeal for conversion and "Christianization". I suppose you can say it said in some cases that discrimination was wrong, but so did a ton of notable figures completely unconnected with the church throughout history.
And we have to remember, that before religion, we weren't headbashing barbarians. While it is true that the western countries developed around religion, you should not forget that the primarily atheist China developed an empire as powerful and vast as the Roman Empire (Who they actually made contact with at one point, according to an archaelogical dig which has found Roman shields in Asia) without resorting to any form of organized religion. I believe it may be deduced that the development of complex societies and morality is mostly due to the manifestation of human instinct in a complex group with language, customs, and culture, all gradual things which built up through the diversification of various ethnic groups.
Positive things for me? Well, I suppose a positive thing would be the fact that I've attended a bunch of funerals put on by churches. I suppose it may be said that after the various religions dragged Europe through the Dark Ages, they did help to provide incentive in the form of squandered money from corrupt nobles and clergy, and from the Muslims they killed in the Middle East, to rebuild Europe and European culture, but as much can be said for the patrons of the arts, mostly noblemen who tended to be Italian and French. Then the Church almost erased all of that with it's six or seven schisms which it wouldn't give up on.
I suppose another good thing would be the presence of a church instead of a convenience store or an office building a little away from where I live. I do prefer a nice white building as opposed to some glass and steel monstrosity.

[Cossack]

Here's a starter: It taught the masses that discrimination agianst colour was wrong(all major religions teach this)

Although it teaches this now, religion was in the past (and even in some cases nowadays), as Spence said, a major cause of discrimination, and I don't think this a very good example.

However, religion has taught us not to screw our neighbours wives, which I guess can be a good thing (depending on who you are )

[Athena]

If you got them all five right in the head, you don't need someone else to tell you that rape and discrimination are wrong.


In my opinion religion brought, in the olden days, explanations for things people couldn't explain. It gave and gives people something to hold on to, especially in dark times.

[Pyth]

Exactly. That was it's purpose, to comfort people.

AND that first point of yours was also right. I'm an athiest and I hold no real bias. I know Christians... with no real bias.

In the end, it's the Bible, God, and Jesus (Or Buddha, or Allah and the QUaran, or what/whoever) VS. Modern science, the big bang, and research. And all debates will either become:

A. An AUTOMATIC tie, as the religious faction will not be converted.

B. Scientific victory.

[MSpencer]

If you got them all five right in the head, you don't need someone else to tell you that rape and discrimination are wrong.


In my opinion religion brought, in the olden days, explanations for things people couldn't explain. It gave and gives people something to hold on to, especially in dark times.

Blaat, rape is wrong. Discrimination is wrong.


And on the point of modern science vs. religion, I believe the up and coming generation will possibly be the last well educated bunch we have. If this intelligent design thing wins out, the future of biology will practically collapse, with ill-educated, ill-trained individuals, and a lack, but still a presence, of people who were educated under the current system. This of course will leak into other fields, causing illogical second-guessing and the like, and slowing down the progress of science in general by a definitely evident rate.
So science has already lost the argument.

[duke_Qa]

food for thought. it would be ironic if the world goes into a cataclysmic event because it lacked the technology to stop it- which was stopped by religion.

[Drewry]

food for thought. it would be ironic if the world was saved from a cataclysmic event caused by advanced technology because of religion.

Techonlogy can be both good and bad, just like religion. They are not counters to each other but they can be. So what is your point? Good religion stops bad techonlogy. Bad Religion stops good technology.

[MSpencer]

Who decides if technology is good or bad? Why should religion be given the right even to meddle in such affairs?
And what religion-driven technology could ever save the world? The electronic pocket bible?

[Silent_Killa]

I think what he meant was that technology that develops faster than society can handle is just as bad of a thing as not having the technology when you need it.

[Jeeves]

Good in religion: slows overpopulation. If people weren't killing each other and were enjoying themselves, the world would be too crowded.
And I have actually have an electronic pocket bible, gotta love technology!

[Athena]

But in a lot of religions (or forms of it) you aren't (or weren't) allowed contraceptives.

[MSpencer]

Next best thing: Church supported and financed genocides.

[duke_Qa]

come to think of it, most human organizations have done genocides somehow.

[Calamity_Jones]

I've said this many times, but the best thing religion has done for the world is architecture...
just
look
at
this
stuff!