83 replies to this topic

[Sydr0]

USa has failed to show every1 Iraq had WMDs or that they supported terrorism. They also let Saddam get away with it in 88 for gassing thousands of Kurds.

[Tom]

Yeah. But where in this topic has there been someone called you a propaganda bitch or some other name. I haven't seen.

[Ash]

Me neither.

Propaganda does blind people to the truth. It occurs throughout the world. Americans recieve one bit of propaganda, we get another, the arabs still another. There's no stopping it. Bias, subjectivity and information omission is everywhere. No-one, as far as I can see, is calling you a 'propaganda bitch'. They are merely saying that what you have heard is propaganda, and disagree because they know/have smelt a different pile of bullshit to you.

If anyone has said you're a tool of the propaganda, I want to know about it, because the person who would say it is themselves under the influence of propaganda. As is everyone who isn't truly in the know (ie, the leaders of the countries).

I try to take into account all points of view given to me at any one time, but if there's only one point of view, then I will probably believe it. If someone comes along and says something to the contrary later, chances are I will have an argument with them until they either give up or convince me to their POV with some form of evidence. Does this make ME a propaganda bitch? I'm sure TAG and everyone else here is similar in this way of interpreting info, therefore, if it makes ME a propaganda bitch, every fker here is as well. Therefore no-one can call anyone else, or they are the pot to the kettle.

[Deathblow Luc]

We are all influenced by propaganda, we can all be annoyed by being called propaganda bitch as you say, yet i havent seen any calling of propaganda bitch here yet...as said before...we dont insult, nor we make burde comments.

[Rygar]

Ok, TAG, English is not my mother language, so sorry if is not perfect and I don't understand some meanings, but is not my fault; sorry if I'm not Angloamerican, I consider myself a citizien of the world and frankly when someone says: "I'm proud for being born in this country" it makes no sense to me since every countries in the world should give him the same pride.

Now about CNN: in case you don't know CNN is directly controlled by Pentagon, so its quite censored and too many times informations are altered. I don't want to be offensive or call you propaganda bitch, I only suggest to watch other channels, and if you can, just take a look at some foreign TVs.

Hope to be diplomatically correct..... (please forgive me my syntax and my grammar)

[Deathblow Luc]

Theres the intention...Rygar is saying that in his opinion CNN is not telling the truth, he is not saying that you are brainwahsed by CNN.

[Sydr0]

lol i always say CNN is the Government's mouthpiece

[Deathblow Luc]

AFAIK, CNN is not controlled by the Pentagon, however i have seen CNN in cable (the signal that arrives to UK, thanks to my neighbour and his satelite TV) and there was missing images in the information givn, i suppose it was done to lighten up the conflict (The images showin in Spain (Signal in english, so must be UK directed) were probably not the same than in USA, for example, the showing of the corpses of the american soldiers in the desert). I suppose those kind of things are hidden so the population moral does not decrease, and for respect t the families, but in some way, being for the reason it can be, its hiding the truth.

You can easily tell some media in USA are propaganda, I remember a first page of a newspaper that said "We are fighting a war with cowards!" And if im not mistaken, that was New York Post (ill try search a photo of it). (I think i heard exactly the same phrase coming from Dennis Hastert, the speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives after 9-11)

Ah here it is, his words on Sept 12: (ill bolden up what ill comment)

"Yesterday, the American people were viciously and deliberately attacked by terrorists. Make no mistake, this was an act of war. The American people, as represented by the Members of Congress, will take all appropriate action to protect its citizens and to win this war against these terrorists.

We have entered into a new era in world history. Terrorists flout international law and standards of common decency. They target the American people because we are strong and because they are weak. These terrorists are cowards and they will be punished. Some say that we cannot be the world's policeman. Well, if we do not enforce the rules of common decency, if we do not take steps to protect our citizens from these lawless and evil bandits, no one else will.

This is a new kind of war, and we must be prudent in how we prosecute it. All those nations who harbor, who train, who support, who fund these terrorist groups, bear equal responsibility for the actions of these terrorists. We must dedicate the proper resources to deal with them in the appropriate way. Terrorists may be able to run, but they cannot hide from America's steely determination and justice.

Many of those who died were dedicated public servants. Members of our armed forces, firefighters, police officers. People dedicated to serving and protecting America. Others were citizens dedicating to living the American dream, who had wives or husbands or children or parents who loved them and who will miss them. These people were innocent victims in a war conducted against America by cowards. It is time that we start fighting back.

The civilized world is with us. I was touched by the visit of Mr. Howard, the Prime Minister of Australia, who sat in our chamber today to show his solidarity with the American people. The Speaker of the Russian Duma, Mr. Seleznev, sent me a letter where he said: "The people who ordered and carried out this outrageous crime must be found and punished." And our allies across the world have expressed their horror at this unprecedented attack.

My friends, the civilized and free world must stand together and stamp out this terrorist scourge.

My deepest condolences go the families of the victims. May God protect them in this time of trouble. And may God bless America."

Starts:
1- That thing about the new era is yet to be seen. In the following days, ill present one of those book-like arguements about it in The Truth Database, Mr "Novus Ordo Seclorum" 8) (Talking to Hastert though he wont hear me obviously )
2- Theres the wrong concept. Terrorists dont target America because America is rich and they are poor. Cause muslims dont kill their neighbour because he has one more carrot, its just nonsense. The reason why terrorists attack America in such way, is because they have been in the middle of the world bipolarity for fifty years, and they had a lot of conflicts on their soils, because their governments were either supported by America or the USSR, and the opposite pole, either initiated a guerrilla to harden things, or a low-scale conflict, or terrorism itself (for example, and this is more recent -although its not an Islamic country-, the independence of Angola, where USSR and Cuban troops disembarked in the coast, aiding MPLA, to try dissipate problems between a Guerilla armed by USA and the UNITA armed by South Africa, both trying to control the diamond reserves in the country, which are now under a socialist government as most of the country (A year ago the UNITA ceased fire, yet the other guerrilla hasnt done yet, which btw, its a party called FNLA)
You may ask, why do they attack America and not Russia? Well, Russia always provided them with weapons, Islamic countries are important trading sources for Russia and viceversa. Besides, most of these countries rejected capitalism because of the principles Islam inflicts, they had a point in common. If they did attack Russia, they would be having a conflict with those who think the same as them about USA, and as well, fighting whoever sells weapons to them. They wont sell anymore after...so thesecountries would have no ammo/weapon supplies (except Iran & Pakistan that is)
3- Its true, if you dont defende yourselves, nothing will. However, you have to see you are defendeing yourself outside the country, and attacking in defense (um, i dont think that term is logical but it applies), is a preventive invasion. Preventive, yes, but still an invasion, no matter ideal after it.
4- This person, is discriminating 3rd world in this phrase. I must remind this person, that the first countries in sending their condolences, were namely Russia -Vladimir Putin (who was the first, and it is 2nd world)-, and consequently Spain by the Socialist Party -Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero- (Irony, the socialists expressed condolences before the populars...2 days before that is), Chile, Mexico -by Vicente Fox-, Egypt -Hosni Mubarak-, Uruguay -Battle-, Argentina -Duhalde-, Algeria and Colombia. After all those, Tony Blair. By saying civilized world supports us, he is obviously taking into consideration the support by countries with decent military and economy, since, none of the countries specified above, but Spain, are considered "civilized" enough by UN social organisations, since they keep sending aid missions. So he should have said, "almost all the world supports us against terrorists". After those declarations, many countries decided not to support USA, since they were not taken into account (Either by moral or economical interests)

Going on, i can notice demagougery in a quote in the paragraph which refers to who died in 9-11. It is true, innocents died, innocents also died in Iraq. Although i must remind, that there was a big quantity of foreigners in the wtc when the strike happened.

I can also notice propaganda here:
Terrorists may be able to run, but they cannot hide from America's steely determination and justice.

Insults:
from these lawless and evil bandits
These terrorists are cowards
in a war conducted against America by cowards

You must know, that by insulting what you get is anger, its not a way to calm down a situation.

I understand these comments were probably done while there was a tremendous rage over Hastert. However, there is something called Diplomacy, and showing sentiments when making a speech directed to voters, is called demagougery itself. Im not saying he shouldnt be mad, but i do say the White House should have gotten someone else to talk rather than him, notice the quantity of things you can see as flaws, lies, insults, errors...its just too much

I was inititally going to quote only his speech, but it was stronger than me.

[Sydr0]

The civilized world is with us

LOL I think what they mean is that the West is with the US and they say that the rest of the world is uncivilized

[Ash]

That's about right, Sydr0. That sums it up in a bloody nutshell that does.

Who needs lengthy discussions when you can hit the nail on the head with one small post?

Not to be anti-American, but that's usually the case. I know this'll flare up some angry replies, but most Americans are arrogant sods, in my opinion (and not just mine, either). What gives them the right to barge into someone's country and tell them how it's to be run? What gives them the right to be exempt from the UN, that they can do whatever they want without fear of retribution? That they feel superior to the entire of the rest of the world?

What gives them such an overwhelming brilliance to be able to do all this? Why are they superior?

[Rich181]

Tell me, what do you base your claim on that we feel that we're superior?

America is the most powerful nation on earth. It did not get this way by raping and pillaging others; it became the most powerful nation on earth because it embraced the new system of capitalism. The fundamental tenet of capitalism is that wealth can be created, by investing money and recieving a yield. You don't need to take from others to get more, you can create more wealth and thusly create win-win situations. America has the most powerful standing army on earth. America has the richest population on Earth. America stands on a shiny tower of prosperity that it built all by itself. It does not need the oil of the Middle East, since the Middle East only provides 6% of it's oil. It makes most of it's own food, makes most of it's own OIL, most of it's own marketed goods, almost all of it's domestic energy and is almost entirely self-reliant.

Any Questions?

[Deathblow Luc]

It did not get this way by raping and pillaging others; it became the most powerful nation on earth because it embraced the new system of capitalism. The fundamental tenet of capitalism is that wealth can be created, by investing money and recieving a yield. You don't need to take from others to get more, you can create more wealth and thusly create win-win situations.

No, theres no win-win on international commerce. If you want a proof, ask yourself if capitalism would work as good for Nike, if the salaries to their workers in India was $200 a month instead of $15. Correct, cheap work force attracts foreign investments, however, the fact that foreign enterprises cope this work force, which can be used for national profit, automatically generates a win-lose situation. Its that easy.

America has the most powerful standing army on earth.

Showed army yes, but its certainly doubtful in number, compared to China.

America has the richest population on Earth.

Wrong, richest population in the world, per cápita is Luxemborg.

America stands on a shiny tower of prosperity that it built all by itself.

No, prosperity comes after sucess, in this case capitalism, it wasnt built "by itself". It is also consequence of post WWII investments such as the Marshall Plan, if that never came up, USA wouldnt have had a decent market where to sell for years.

It does not need the oil of the Middle East, since the Middle East only provides 6% of it's oil. It makes most of it's own food, makes most of it's own OIL, most of it's own marketed goods, almost all of it's domestic energy and is almost entirely self-reliant.

Actually, no matter what you produce, in case of oil, the more you produce, the more profit. So if you say this for the Iraqi conflict, its not valid, since if resource centers are in a countries control, what is important is how much they can get in a future, and the more reserves, the more they can control petrol price (Yes, i know about the OPEC, and that of the 11 countries only one is not Islamic, Venezuela. However, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and such countries are either Allies or "Emirates of USA" (Governments and Independences supported by USA)

America is BENEVOLENT. Note that. We throw money at the poorer countries of the world to help them out - money we know we probably are never going to see again.

If you are not gonna see it again, then why pressure the governments of these countries, if you have that defeatist attitude. The loans are like real life, dont ask for one, or you get screwed until you die, by giving loans, 3rd world has to retribute, with the corruption factor included, that aid never gets to the people as its supposed to, or the investments never retribute enough to pay back due to the system itself, and how national industries can´t export appropiately or cant even produce. Its not that easy here.

We encourage the companies of our country to go out and create jobs in the WORLD, jobs we could be creating in our own stable job market.

Jobs, that make people work many times with no rights, for a misery, and without social care.

America fought two big, expensive World Wars, neither of which - even with Japan - would have resulted in America being invaded or even financially hampered if they had minded their own business. When the Soviets began pushing their oppresive filth everywhere they could, we put on our little Champion of Democracy hat and started handing out free guns and rocket launchers to everyone who needed them.

And by doing that, you militarized the world. After militarization, and the appearance of corrupt leaders, USA gave its back several times, and whoa, now theres something called Terrorism. Syntax:
C gives A weapons so he fights B
B has weapons and personnel aid from X
A fights alone B and X
B and X beat A
A is angry because the support given was known not to be enough, and feel they have been sent to battle for non moral purposes
A "terrorizes" C

We feed the hungry - not America's hungry, and America does have a very small but existent population of homeless and impovershed peoples - but the hungry of the world, with American organisations which recieve massive tax breaks from the government to ship food to people who curse our name.

Yeah, in part good in part bad, cause those same organisations are many times known to have personnel which asks for "favours" in exchange for food. Nothing can be perfect, thats correct.

America created the United Nations so people could talk out their problems without having to shoot each other in the face. America educates many, many people in the world with foreign student programs that practically pay for their tuition. America does many, many, many things that drain resources that could be better used to balance America's checkbooks and make America richer.

UN was created to "keep" peace, aid who needs it, and keep justice, thats what UN´s signed papers (um, is that the expression...the signing "contract"?) say. In the moment you jump over UN, you are disbalancing that peace there is supposed to exist.

You see, here's what I want all of you, Comrade Jerkov, Sydro, and ArgCmdr to understand: The American people are in control of their government. The actions of the government is consistent with the will of the broad majority of the American people (Of course, you see peace protestors on television, but the majority of American people have nothing to protest). As a matter of fact, this is almost always the case. President Bush is so popular in America right now because he's doing exactly what we want him to do.

Resuming, old info, America is a democracy.

We don't owe the United Nations a DAMN.

Then suddenly someone can debireately send a ballistic missile at USA and no one should give a damn either, according to that concept. If you dont give a damn, why others should?

It's not a world government or a military power, it's a really big table to try and talk problems out through. That's all it is for. It serves no other purpose.

The UNs Magnus Letter (Again, i think this is not the name in english) says something totally different.

You're confused. Well, we weren't able to talk things out with the UN because we realized the Iraqis were bullshitting us, so we realized that if we wanted to remove a possible source of chemical weapons...

That is simply meaning that anyone can attack anyone when he thinks the other one is having a certain attitude (being it true or not). Free world, heh.

we'd have to go into Iraq, shoot some Ba'athists in the head and destroy the weapons ourselves.

Said that way, it looks like the purpose is killing...and BTW, those so claimed weapons were not found yet, so you just killed Ba'athists, i guess. Oh and removing Saddam.

So, now that we're no longer involving the UN - which really didn't want to be involved in the first place, since over 60% of the UN's membership is from dictatorships and such, and really now only exists to give legitimacy to these wannabe countries - we don't care about proving anything to the world, because we already have our proof.

If 60% of world lives under dictatorships, have you ever wondered why? And as well, if its that way, why are you still in the UN? Publically say, Screw UN, and done, one less weight, youll just be saying again something thats overunderstood though.
That not caring to proove anything to the world, is what makes the world doubt about USAs purposes. Thats what make the rest of the world "negative" about USAs actions.

And then, why the HELL do we need the world's permission to invade a country? Or did we just forget to say "please"?

You dont need permission, you need support so your external image is correct. Pure politics. Any other democracy would actually attack somebody only if supported.

But this claims of us being arrogant and superior... we don't claim to be a master race. There is no such thing as a true American race, except for the Native Americans (Indians), but... they're low in population. If you moved in right now and became a citizen in America you would be an American by definition. Tell me, what do you base your claim on that we feel that we're superior?

I think Richs reply is more than enough.

Oh, and Trent Lott was House Speaker until February of this year.

Review newspapers, thats up in The Independant, and Washington Post, lost the links.

[Ash]

Right. Here goes:

[quote]

America is the most powerful nation on earth. It did not get this way by raping and pillaging others; it became the most powerful nation on earth because it embraced the new system of capitalism. The fundamental tenet of capitalism is that wealth can be created, by investing money and recieving a yield. You don't need to take from others to get more, you can create more wealth and thusly create win-win situations. America has the most powerful standing army on earth. America has the richest population on Earth. America stands on a shiny tower of prosperity that it built all by itself. It does not need the oil of the Middle East, since the Middle East only provides 6% of it's oil. It makes most of it's own food, makes most of it's own OIL, most of it's own marketed goods, almost all of it's domestic energy and is almost entirely self-reliant. [/quote]
Uh, yes it did get there by raping and pillaging. What happened to the Native Americans, exactly?
Most countries have also embraced that, to no avail. Bear in mind Britain started it all, and therefore the only reason you prospered is because we started the whole thing off back when WE were the most powerful nation on Earth, and you were more mineral-rich than we truly realised. Otherwise, we'd never have let you have independence. However, from what the US has turned into, I'd say you can shove your country up your asses, since it's turned into a shitstorm that is soon to engulf the whole world.
And YES, you DO need the Middle-East's oil. The fact it's only providing you with 6% is bad news for you. The OIL CRISIS is occuring. Oil will RUN OUT. USA just wants to exploit this, gain monopoly on oil, then name its price to poor little Afghanistan, Pakistan, and even the UK. Therefore the entire world will be pushed even further under the USA's thumb. Don't think the majority of the world's going to like that, do you?
Military might means JACK SHIT by the way. Don't forget, your lot are trained to shoot your own, or point and spray. Other nations teach aiming in their basic training.

[quote]America is BENEVOLENT.[/quote]
Yes, if sending GIs into a peasant village and having them shoot the seven shades of shit out of said village is benevolent.

[quote]Note that. We throw money at the poorer countries of the world to help them out - money we know we probably are never going to see again.[/quote]
Would you like a couple of the reasons you're not going to see it again?
1) These people don't want money. They want a life. They don't want to spend forever walking 50 miles to the nearest water pump. That's what gets me about charities. They ask for money, why not ask for fking plumbers? Money doesn't make pipelines by itself.
2) Obviously not enough is being given out to solve the problem, then. Also, what good is some money if you don't know what to do with it? Money doesn't, on its own, cure disease, wipe out hunger, bring water to the populace, build factories or give people a decent standard of living.

[quote]We encourage the companies of our country to go out and create jobs in the WORLD, jobs we could be creating in our own stable job market.[/quote]
Thereby americanising every other country on Earth. Many (inc. France, amongst others) don't want your influence to get too strong.

[quote] America fought two big, expensive World Wars, neither of which - even with Japan - would have resulted in America being invaded or even financially hampered if they had minded their own business. When the Soviets began pushing their oppresive filth everywhere they could, we put on our little Champion of Democracy hat and started handing out free guns and rocket launchers to everyone who needed them. We feed the hungry - not America's hungry, and America does have a very small but existent population of homeless and impovershed peoples - but the hungry of the world, with American organisations which recieve massive tax breaks from the government to ship food to people who curse our name. [/quote] Don't forget, you weren't even going to JOIN the war, were it not for the Japanese attacks. You were going to isolate yourself from the world in a la-la-la, its not my problem sort of way.

[quote]America created the United Nations so people could talk out their problems without having to shoot each other in the face. America educates many, many people in the world with foreign student programs that practically pay for their tuition. America does many, many, many things that drain resources that could be better used to balance America's checkbooks and make America richer.[/quote]
No, America, England and others created the UN. Not just you. Plus, that gives you no right to piss all over it's face and say fuck you, we're not abiding by the laws we ourselves created.

[quote]You see, here's what I want all of you, Comrade Jerkov, Sydro, and ArgCmdr to understand: The American people are in control of their government. The actions of the government is consistent with the will of the broad majority of the American people (Of course, you see peace protestors on television, but the majority of American people have nothing to protest). As a matter of fact, this is almost always the case. President Bush is so popular in America right now because he's doing exactly what we want him to do.[/quote] Yea, it sure sounds like it with mass protests all over the place. All those interviews seem to say otherwise. The average American doesn't know where Iraq is, let alone what they're going to face over there, let alone whether Saddam actually has WMD. Therefore, why would they want war with a country already imploding from UN and US sanctions and embargoes?

[qupte]We don't owe the United Nations a DAMN.[/quote] No, but you seem to feel you have the right to walk all over them.
[quote]It's not a world government or a military power, it's a really big table to try and talk problems out through. That's all it is for. It serves no other purpose. You're confused. Well, we weren't able to talk things out with the UN because we realized the Iraqis were bullshitting us, so we realized that if we wanted to remove a possible source of chemical weapons we'd have to go into Iraq, shoot some Ba'athists in the head and destroy the weapons ourselves.[/quote]
Well, that proves it. You said the UN was set up to STOP people shooting eachother. Now you WANT people to shoot eachother? Why bother setting up the UN if it's not doing it's job?
[quote] So, now that we're no longer involving the UN - which really didn't want to be involved in the first place, since over 60% of the UN's membership is from dictatorships and such, and really now only exists to give legitimacy to these wannabe countries - we don't care about proving anything to the world, because we already have our proof. And then, why the HELL do we need the world's permission to invade a country? Or did we just forget to say "please"?[/quote] Why do you have the right to invade said country anyway? You don't. Therefore don't make out you have by saying you have to ask everyone else's permission. We don't have the right either. The only legit reason for going into a country is if they've done something directly to you to provoke it.

[quote]But this claims of us being arrogant and superior... we don't claim to be a master race. There is no such thing as a true American race, except for the Native Americans (Indians), but... they're low in population. If you moved in right now and became a citizen in America you would be an American by definition. Tell me, what do you base your claim on that we feel that we're superior? [/quote] Oh, nothing. Just the fact you feel you can walk all over every mo fo on the planet. ¬_¬

[quote]You are all very, very heavily influenced by propaganda, rabble rousing and illogical demagougery. [/quote] says you. ¬_¬

[quote]You know what? Fuck it. Why should I waste my time talking to people who don't really care what I have to say? No matter what I say, no matter how much sense I make, I'm wrong because I'm American and I know nothing. I'm wrong by default! Look at this shit, ArgCmdr even tried to correct me on something I was correct on. Cannis was right. Every one of you guys here hates America. You HATE it. You all hate Capitalism. And you know what? Since I'm no longer going to even associate with you guys it's about DAMN time I said this. [/quote] No, you just don't like it because others believe differently, and have a point of view other than the American. We don't hate America, we just see the picture bigger than the outer edge of our borders. We see America in a different light than you, because we're not American. We don't approve of a nation gallivanting into another, and then expecting every other nation to be at its beck and call, nor do we like it when a nation demands others follow suit with however it's going itself. Mebbe they don't want you there? If the Iraqis wanted liberation, they coulda done it their bloody selves!

[Rygar]

Well, this thread has no more a sense since doesn't talk pertinently about Iraqi situation.

You know what? Fuck it. Why should I waste my time talking to people who don't really care what I have to say? No matter what I say, no matter how much sense I make, I'm wrong because I'm American and I know nothing. I'm wrong by default! Look at this shit, ArgCmdr even tried to correct me on something I was correct on. Cannis was right. Every one of you guys here hates America. You HATE it. You all hate Capitalism. And you know what? Since I'm no longer going to even associate with you guys it's about DAMN time I said this.

You like just a puppet in Cannis's hands, see the capital words: HATE, how hilarious, you remember me Hitler when he talked to the masses exaggerating his tone above some points. So in your eyes we are all evil daemons and we want that US burns in hell. Spectacular. I see for you a great career in theatre.

TAG, we are not Anti-American, face it, we don't hate capitalism, indeed most of us live in capitalistic countries, believe it or not. This doesn't means we cannot be critic about it.

You act like an immature sub cultured fanatic.
You're violating some basic rules, you're acting like a zealot, you use a rude language, you act like a fanatic Pro-American, you accuse us to be emotive when you give us examples of pure non rational answers.

We don't owe the United Nations a DAMN

since over 60% of the UN's membership is from dictatorships and such, and really now only exists to give legitimacy to these wannabe countries - we don't care about proving anything to the world, because we already have our proof. And then, why the HELL do we need the world's permission to invade a country? Or did we just forget to say "please

You don't have proves, US governent lies, kills, steals, hides the truth in the name of democracy. And even if several countries are under dictatorship this doesn't mean the American "democracy" is wellcome and accepted, further more this doesn't mean "American democracy" is what world wants. Face it.

We refuse this neofascism and militarization of society that America is uselessy proud to give. We refuse made in US products like Bin Laden or Hussein, we refuse horrific invasions like in Iraq only for mere economic motivations. Not to make you cry, but US oil reserve is not enough for US, if your capitalistic country will continue to waste OIL (6 millions of barrels every day) it will finish its great reosurces within 9 years.
Bush and his administration know this, for this reason has thought about Iraq, and he's thinking about Iran, Syria etc....
At least admit it; "we waste our resources, we need other oil at no cost, our economy suffers a big crisis and only a war can heal it, the only thing we have superior is a deadly army that may destroy everything, so we use our brute force to get what we want".

Personally I have enough about your total lack of IQ, you refuse our points of view because you aren't able to counter them. Your pitiful charlatanism and useless rethoric have disgusted all us. We're sorry, but we can't tolerate such a blind immaturity.

So I vote to ban you permanently.

[Hrod89]

I need to post, some of this is total bullshit.

And YES, you DO need the Middle-East's oil. The fact it's only providing you with 6% is bad news for you. The OIL CRISIS is occuring. Oil will RUN OUT. USA just wants to exploit this, gain monopoly on oil, then name its price to poor little Afghanistan, Pakistan, and even the UK. 

Why would we do that. Bush will get kicked out of office if he does something radical like that.

Yes, if sending GIs into a peasant village and having them shoot the seven shades of shit out of said village is benevolent

We wouldn't do that without a reason. If we have done this and you have been told that we did it for fun, you have been misinformed. I watch foriegn news channels, don't say that I don't. I'm short on time. I'll post the rest later.

[Deathblow Luc]

Actually, if you noticed, im not laughing at you, nor insulting, nothing. Then theres a hate to America, a lack of respect....i ask you, where is it? Whenever we say something, that oppose to your thoughts, we are automatically anti-american, right? Automatically communists? Then how i should take your previous idea of "stereotyping is bad"?

If you want to continue to share your opinions, you are welcome, however, remember this is not C-GEN, here, we dont diss each other, this isnt "a nastier BBQ" as Cannis redescribed it. We respect each others opinions and discuss politely, and with respect, most important. Or have you heard an insult coming from me in this thread?

[Ash]

It just seems he takes being argued against personally. For some odd reason, I find it offensive that someone as supposedly educated as TAG can be offended by the sheer whiff of being disagreed with.

Oh, and TAG. Probably you won't ever read this, but if you do, take heed:

IF YOU HAVE A COMPLAINT TO MAKE ABOUT THE CNCGUILD, SAY IT TO OUR FACE. DO NOT GO CRYING BACK TO C-GEN JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T GOT THE BALLS TO TELL US EXACTLY WHAT YOU THINK.

I am of course referring to your 'I hate CNCGuild' thread...

[Beowulf]

Not to start off as offensive, but Rygar, FUCK YOU! Now that that is out of the way.

I agree with TAG, and you non-Americans, you have some things that I agree with too. Everyone has been fairly rational in expressing their opinions, which is what they are. They are merely opinions. That's it. What I did see, however, is something I don't like.

Rygar, let me explain why I don't like you at this time. You have been boligerant and you have tried to force your beliefs upon others. This is what I AM GETTING from your comments. That's how they came off to me. I don't know if anyone else felt the same way, but I did.

I don't agree with TAG simply because I'm American and he is too. I agree with TAG because he has some semblance of logic about his words. If you can't handle hard truths, guess what, FUCK YOU! I have strong opinions as well. I state them harshly which you might already see.

As for the war, I don't completely agree with it, but I do understand where Bush is coming from. Another note, Bush doesn't declare war, Congress does! My government felt threatened by 9/11 and since Saddam refused to comply to ANY of the UN diplomacy. Face it boys, diplomacy failed this time. Anyway, Bush felt more threatened and gave Saddam and ultimatum. Ah ha, ultimatum, he knew it was coming and still he refused to comply. [I am restating info that you may already know, but it helps my arguement considerably.] Back to the subject. Saddam instigated this whole thing himself by refusing to comply. All we asked was that he disarme his weapons and allow inspectors to look around.

Now, why would someone with nothing to hide refuse to let someone JUST LOOK AROUND? Well, he did have something to hide. This is where Bush comes in. He FELT, note the emphasis on FELT, threatened. Then we're over there, and we get attacked by SCUD missiles that he supposedly did not have. Okay, there was a good reason to go in. He has weapons that he SAID he destroyed. He lied about that, what makes you think he wouldn't lie about something else?

While fighting, we did NOT violate the Geneva Convention at all. And for those of you who have heard about American atrocities, they are total bullshit propaganda. We are not like that. Back to shit about fighting, Iraqi soldiers violated the Geneva Convention MANY times. They showed on TV, ON TV!!!!!!, the execution of MECHANICS!!!!!!! That is against the Convention. They also used mosques, hospitals and schools for ambushes. Also against the Convention. Iraqi soldiers dressed as civilians. Yet another act against the Convention. They EVEN had the AUDACITY to wave the white surrender flag and then attack US and British troops as they were going to capture them. But wait, didn't I just use British in a sentence? America was not the only country that was involved in this war, note that.

As for the weapons of mass destruction, SIX WEEKS!!!!!!! WE'VE BEEN THERE SIX WEEKS!!!!!!!! You don't find things like that in less than THREE MONTHS! Besides US and British troops were NOT there to find the weapons. What they did find were HazMat suits in places like schools and hospitals. They also found sarin gas and other deadly chemicals like that. You don't keep that around for a rainy day, I'm sorry, you just don't. A top scientist in Saddam's regime has even stated that they did develop weapons, but has not said where they are of if they exist. Oh yeah, why would you need suits like that in places like that? Just something to ponder.

Okay, now, I am American. You already know that. I don't agree with this war because I am a mindless idiot. I do think and this time, I believe what my country did was the right thing. I agree with my government, which is quite rare. I normally disregard anything they say. I'm not saying none of the information they present is not falsified or cleaned up for TV. They hold things from US citizens because they panic easily. If you don't live here, you won't really know what I mean. Governments withhold information in all countries, not just mine. Note that too.

Something else you must know as well. I am 18, and I can be called into service, yet I still agree with the war. Isn't that odd. Wouldn't you think someone would try to avoid fighting? Another thing, I hate actual fighting, but if I had to do it for my country, I would. You know why? I believe in my country, that's why. I am very patriotic, but that comes from my family. Most of family was in the military and they know what these guys are going through.

Now, for the language we've heard about. First off, if you think this is a religious war, GO FUCK YOURSELF! It's not. Yes, Bush said Crusade. Who fucking cares? IT IS A WORD! It does NOT mean a holy war. It means war. That IS ALL! Regime, also another word. We distorted that one, I'll agree to that. A regime is the group in power. Simply that.

Now that I've said my piece, I hope you have a better understanding of my side. However, if my post is deleted or edited, I will be extremely pissed off.

EDIT: Just so you know, this is Fenring from CGEN and DeeZire.