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#1 Celeglin

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 01:24 PM

So as you may or may not have noticed, I've mentioned that I have plans to split the Elven faction into two: one for west of the Misty Mountains and one for east. While on the train going into school yesterday, I started brainstorming on what the basis of these factions will be. So here is what I've come up with so far...

EDIT: Added names to the factions
EDIT: Added campaign ideas
EDIT: Added new renders and descriptions of some units

Updated May 19th

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Elves of Eriador

Basic Info: Strong units and heroes. Units are few because of high costs and CP. Castle has walkable walls and a gate. Very little stealth. Great strength: lots of upgrades.

Heroes:
-Elrond
-Arwen
-Glorfindel
-Cirdan (a full hero this time)
-Gildor
-Elladan
-Elrohir (these last two are the only stealthy units for the Western elves, aside from the Sentinels)

Units:
- Riders of Rivendell
- Spearmen of the Havens
- Sentinels from Woody End
- Axes of Harlindon (basic infantry; fast, low defense)
- Forlindon's Bows (mounted archers)
- Guardians of the Tower Hills (armoured foot archers)
- Noldorin Swordsmen (very elite infantry)
- Minstrels (leadership providing single unit)

Library of Elrond: This is where part of that "strength in upgrades" comes from. At this structure you can purchase upgrades for your Minstrels as well as upgrades for a variety of other things.
- purchase Minstrels (their starting leadership increases defense)
- "Fall of Gil-Galad" (song upgrade for Minstrels, adds increase attack to their leadership)
- "A Elbereth Gilthoniel" (song upgrade, resist fear)
- "Lay of Luthien" (song upgrade, adds "well" healing effect (may not be possible by upgrade))
- "Yavanna's Blessing" (increases production of orchards)
- "Splendour of Old" (faster ability recharge for heroes)
- others...

Elladan
~ sword, low armor, medium attack, very fast, med-high health. Stealthy.
- Sons of Elrond: bonus when near Elrohir
- Mount
- Fell Strike: Single, powerful, AoE attack (similar to Gothmog's Orc Bash, if you will)
- Armor upgrade
- Elladan's Wrath: attack & armor bonus for short time
Possible concept art attached to the bottom of this post.

Elrohir
~ sword, low armor, medium attack, very fast, med-high health. Stealthy.
- Sons of Elrond: bonus when near Elladan
- Mount
- Staggering Blow: knocks back target and cripples them
- Armor upgrade
- Elrohir's Revenge: attack & speed bonus for short time

Cirdan
~ two swords, low armor, high attack, fast, high health
- Leadership: defensive bonus
- Hold the Last Road: defensive bonus to nearby units for a short time
- Shipwright: repairs structures (like a Heal, but for buildings)
- Sea of Storms: Summons a hurricane to the field.

Gildor
- Elven Exile: Makes Gildor move 30% faster at the cost of 40% armor.
- The House of Finrod: Gildor grants a leadership bonus to the Minstrels
- Waybread: Heals nearby heroes.
- Deceiving Melody: Gildor causes targeted enemy units to become neutral for a period of time.

Elves of Rhovanion

Basic info: Focuses on stealth and ranged attacks (they have 7 stealthy units/heroes and 5 archer units/heroes). Base will be current Elven base. Haven't thought on this faction much more than its units, so far.

Heroes:
- Galadriel
- Celeborn (summons Celeglin)
- Haldir
- Thranduil
- Legolas

Units:
- Mirkwood Scouts
- Galadhrim Warriors
- Amroth's Knights
- Marchwardens
- Guardians of the Silver Tree (elite sword wielders)
- Spears of Greenwood (stealthy melee infantry)
- Handmaidens of Galadriel (think of them as walking wells and siege units)

Galadhrim - before I start with them, you should know that the current Galadhrim Warriors do not have a speed reduction when they switch to swords (the summoned Elven Warriors for Gondor and and Rohan still do, but it's not as drastic as EA's version). Moving right along, the "look" of the Galadhrim will be like how they are in the campaign Helm's Deep mission (with possibly some more variances between the unarmoured and armoured versions). They will lose their natural stealth-in-trees aspect, but will instead be able to use an "Elven Cloak" ability, exactly like Celeborn and the hobbits. This means that they can't move stealthed, but they can stealth anywhere (can't attack stealthed either, so you'll have to micromanage that aspect). They will lose some of their anti-cavalry attributes and will be a little stronger against pikemen.

Marchwardens - These guys are the tricky ones. My initial thought (and I'd still like to accomplish it) is to make them super-stealthy. This would mean that they could both stealth near trees by default and have the ability to stop and cloak anywhere. However, I remember trying this with an early version of Celeborn, and something just wasn't right about it: fortunately though, I think it may have just been an FX problem (which can be easily sidestepped by not having FX for the cloak toggle). They will be archer-only with slightly better defense than the Mirkwood Scouts. They're attack speed will be about on par with the Galadhrim (making them slower than the Scouts). They also won't have the "Ambush" formation that makes the Scouts so useful. Other than those ideas, I haven't had much of a chance to explore their possibilities, though I think their super-stealthiness will make them very unique.

Handmaidens of Galadriel - Their first function is as a "walking well". Nearby units are healed as though they are standing near a well (though at a slower rate). Their second function is as the siege unit of Rhovanion. They can call upon the powers of Yavanna, summoning roots to crush enemy buildings (this will be a recharge ability, so you'll need multiple Handmaidens to be very effective). They will also be able to combine with any battalion of infantry, who will form a ring around her as protection.

Possibilities for New Campaign Missions

NOTE: None of these are for sure. They're mainly just idea scribblings I've had. Don't expect anything.

1. Flight to the Ford

When: First mission, before Moria.
- The first stage of this mission will involve Aragorn, Frodo, Merry, Pippin, and Sam having to move from Sentinel to Sentinel across the map. When they approach one, the next one is shown to them.
- After a while, Arwen will find them. She and Frodo will ride away on Asfaloth (marker on map shows where to go). You lose control of the others.
- Black Riders will attack and chase Arwen.
- Once you get to the Fords, flood will begin (possibly as a scripted cut-scene-like thing)
- Aragorn, hobbits, and Glorfindel will arrive and chase the Riders into the water, or attack them themselves.
- Mission is over when Riders are all dead.

2. North-West Lothlorien

When: When the current Lothlorien mission is.
- Start with Fellowship, Haldir, Orophin and Rumil.
- You must travel around the map to find Marchwardens.
- Goblins attack.
- Haldir and the Fellowship cannot die.
- Mission is over when Goblin forces are defeated.
- Cerin Amroth will be in here as a set piece.

3. Grey Havens

When: Just after Amon Hen
- Cirdan, Gildor
- Can only purchase Lindon units (Forlindon's Bows, Axes of Harlindon, Guardians of the Tower Hills, Spearmen of the Havens) and Sentinels.
- Defend the Grey Havens.

4. Angmar

When: After Eaves of Fangorn
- Lindon army from Grey Havens mission.
- Angmar forces will include Orcs, "Goblins", trolls. Possibilities include evil men and wights.
- Destroy remnant forces in Angmar.

5. Rivendell

When: Before Helm's Deep
- Elrond, Arwen, Glorfindel
- Can only build Rivendell units (Riders of Rivendell, Noldorin Warriors), Sentinels, and a campaign-only Rivendell archer unit (pretty much just the Tower Hill unit, but with Rivendell art).
- Enemy army will be comprised of mainly trolls, orcs, and "goblins".
- Defend Rivendell

6. Trollshaws

When: After Isengard
- Rivendell army from Rivendell mission.
- Lindon army comes as reinforcements
- Lots of trolls
- Two armies combine at the end of the mission.

7. Halls of Thranduil

When: Before Ithilien (after Trollshaws)
- Thranduil
- Can only purchase Mirkwood units (Mirkwood Scouts, Spears of Greenwood). I may create a third Mirkwood unit for the campaign-only (probably a royal guard type of unit for Thranduil).
- Enemy waves comprise of "goblins and trolls, orcs, and Soldiers of Rhun (each from different directions).

8. Mirkwood

When: After Osgiliath
- Mirkwood army
- "Battle Under the Trees"
- Destroy all enemies.

9. Northern Lothlorien

When: Before Minas Tirith
- Celeglin
- No build plots or buildings.
- Start with a few Marchwardens.
- Can find more Marchwardens.
- Small Galadhrim force will arrive as reinforcements.
- Celeglin must not die.
- Must survive for given length of time to win.

10. North-East Lothlorien

When: After Minas Tirith
- Celeborn
- Build plots are available. Can only purchase Lothlorien units (Marchwardens, Galadhrim Warriors, Guardians of the Silver Tree).
- Celeglin's army arrives as reinforcements.
- Destory all enemies to win.

11. Caras Galadhon

When: Trigger once Dagorlad is completed.
- Lothlorien army
- Galadriel is added
- Can only purchase Lothlorien units (Marchwardens, Galadhrim Warriors, Guardians of the Silver Tree).
- Defend until all enemies are destroyed.

12. Gundabad

When: After Caras Galadhon
- Eriador army
- Player does not have to complete the Ettenmoors mission to get here; it will just be skipped if it hasn't been played yet.
- DESTROY!!

13. Dol Guldur

When: After Gundabad
- Lothlorien army
- Mirkwood army arrives as reinforcements.
- Destroy Dol Guldur and all enemies.


Other possibilities for plain (non-set piece) missions:

- Ettenmoors (opened after Trollshaws)
Opened after Gundabad/Dol Guldur:
- Dimrill Dale
- Grey Mountains
- Central Mirkwood
- Celduin
- North Anduin

1. Axes of Harlindon (possible heavy armor)
2. Tower Hills Guards (light armor)
3. Riders of Rivendell (heavy and light armor versions)
4. Noldorin Warriors (heavy and light armor versions)
5. Forlindon's Bows (heavy armor)
6. Forlindon's Bows (light armor)
7. Tower Hills Guards (heavy armor)
8. Spearmen of the Havens (heavy and light armor versions)
9. Axes of Harlindon (light armor)
note: click to see larger versions


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Gilder:
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Guardians of the Silver Tree for the Rhovanion faction. For the record, he'll always have a shield (though I might try it as an upgrade), so ignore the lack-there-of in the one shot.
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~~~ HANDMAIDENS ~~~

Basic:
- no normal attack
- can combine with any melee-capable infantry battalion (ie. no Scouts or Knights). They will form a ring around her.
- low defense
- middling infantry speed
- Prayer to Yavanna: ranged spell that uses vines to damage buildings. Does some damage to enemy units. Relatively fast reload.
- Nimrodel's Song: passive area healing. Same radius as Gondor/Rohan Well. Does not revive fallen units.

Upgrades:
- Blessings of Nenya: gives Handmaiden an attack that does no damage, but knocks back all surrounding enemies.
- Memories of Melian: increases Handmaiden's resistance to ranged attacks.

~~~ GREENWOOD SPEARS ~~~

Basic:
- high attack damage and attack speed
- anti-cavalry
- low defense
- fast infantry speed
- stealthed near trees
- middling-low cost
- Ambush Formation: increased attack, decreased defense

Upgrades:
- Heavy Armor: not as big an upgrade as it is for other units.
- Forged Blades

~~~ MIRKWOOD SCOUTS ~~~

Basic:
- high attack damage
- very high attack speed
- very low defense
- fast infantry speed
- stealthed near trees
- low cost (200-250)
- Ambush Formation: increased attack, decreased defense

Upgrades:
- Fire Arrows

~~~ MARCHWARDENS ~~~

Basic:
- toggle bow (better attack) and sword (better defense)
- middling attack damage
- middling-high attack speed
- middling-low defense
- fast infantry speed
- stealthed near trees
- middling cost
- Lorien Cloaks: allows Marchwardens to be stealthed anywhere. Moving or attacking cancels stealth.

Upgrades:
- Fire Arrows
- Forged Blades

~~~ GALADHRIM WARRIORS ~~~

Basic:
- toggle bow (better attack) and sword (better defense)
- high attack damage
- high attack speed
- middling-high defense
- fast infantry speed
- high cost
- Lorien Cloaks: allows Galadhrim to be stealthed anywhere. Moving or attacking cancels stealth.
- NOTE: Galadhrim do NOT have passive stealth.

Upgrades:
- Fire Arrows
- Heavy Armor
- Forged Blades

~~~ GUARDIANS OF THE SILVER TREE ~~~

Basic:
- high attack damage
- high attack speed
- high defense
- fast infantry speed
- high cost
- when combined with another battalion, the other battalion gains a substancial defense boost

Upgrades:
- Heavy Armor
- Forged Blades
- Wing Shields: Increased defense against ranged attacks.

~~~ AMROTH'S KNIGHTS ~~~

Basic:
- low weapon damage
- high trample damage
- middling attack speed
- excellent crush deceleration rate
- can continue to deal crush damage at lower speeds
- high defense
- slow cavalry speed
- high cost
- Wedge Formation: increased attack, decreased defense

Upgrades:
- Heavy Armor
- Forged Blades
- Wing Shields: Increased defense against ranged and spear attacks.

NOTES on the renders below:
- pictured are the Greenwood Spears (both heavy and light armor variations shown), Handmaidens of Galadriel, Marchwardens, and Mirkwood Scouts
- I'm making a bunch of new animations for the Handmaidens (and Galadriel, for that matter) based off Zelda in Super Smash Bros. Melee (Ha! Good luck). Pictured is the first one I've finished.

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Sooo... any thoughts or ideas of your own?

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Edited by adummy, 02 June 2007 - 07:00 PM.

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#2 Elvenlord

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 01:43 PM

West could be High Elves

East- Silven Elves

Most High Elves lived West
and all elves, except Galadrial, east are silvan

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#3 Celeglin

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 01:48 PM

West could be High Elves

East- Silven Elves

Most High Elves lived West
and all elves, except Galadrial, east are silvan

There's a couple of problem there:
- in the western faction, the Guardians, Axes, and Bows are all Sindarin elves... Who are almost high elves, but not quite.
- in the eastern faction, there are again a number of Sindarin elves... and some Noldor followed Galadriel into Lorien.

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#4 Elvenlord

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 01:50 PM

Well, close enough :p
Anyways, that's all I can think of right now :lol:

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#5 zimoo

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 01:50 PM

Golden hair = not silvan, therefore not all elves from east of the misty mountains are silvan.

I don't like the name High-Elves for the western elves personally, as Galadriel is in the east and she was the highest elf still around.

I would suggest Eriador for the name of the Western Elves, as it's most suitable IMO. I don't now about the eastern elves though :(
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#6 Elvenlord

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 01:54 PM

Maybe west could be Eldar, it includes both High elves and Sindrian :lol:

East.......Avari? No, really doesn't fit as well :p

btw, I have the silmarillion out right now, so that's why I'm getting techincal :)

Edited by Elvenlord, 02 November 2006 - 01:56 PM.

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#7 Celeglin

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 01:57 PM

Here's a thought: split the names by Eriador and Rhovanion?

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#8 zimoo

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 01:57 PM

The problem with a generic name like High Elves or Eldar is that the name could be in reference to either group.

How about Wood-Elves for the east? I know it's boring but I can't think of anything beter.

EDIT. Yes I like those ideas Celeglin :lol:

Edited by zimoo, 02 November 2006 - 01:58 PM.

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#9 Elvenlord

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 02:00 PM

That works :lol:

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#10 Celeglin

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 02:03 PM

Moving onto other things... Any thoughts on the current unit lists? Do the Minstrels actually sound as interesting as I'm imagining them? Any ability ideas for Cirdan, Elladan, and Elrohir (I have some, but I'd like to hear others)?

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#11 zimoo

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 02:06 PM

The minstrels sound really interesting, would they be able to atack or would they simply go around singing? Either way it'd make the mod feel even more elvish IMO.

The Rhovanion Elves could do with an elite unit, the elf-lords that protected Thranduil during the Battle Of Five Armies. Only problem I could see with that would be that they might be too similar to the Silver Tree Guardians.
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#12 Celeglin

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 02:10 PM

The minstrels sound really interesting, would they be able to atack or would they simply go around singing? Either way it'd make the mod feel even more elvish IMO.

They'll just walk around singing... Though I can easily think of ways they can harm the enemy (I always play as a Bard on Ragnarok Online... So I know a few ways a musician can do some damage).

The Rhovanion Elves could do with an elite unit, the elf-lords that protected Thranduil during the Battle Of Five Armies. Only problem I could see with that would be that they might be too similar to the Silver Tree Guardians.

That's actually exactly what the Silver Tree Guardians are... They're Sindarin Elf-Lords that protected Celeborn (Celeglin acted as one during the Second Age in the history I created for him). Don't worry, they'll be quite elite :lol: . They're even mentioned briefly in LotR:

"Beside it a broad white ladder stood, and at its foot three Elves were seated. They sprang up as the travellers approached, and Frodo saw that they were tall and clad in grey mail, and from their shoulders hung long white cloaks." (Fellowship of the Ring, The Mirror of Galadriel)

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#13 Nazgul Lord

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 09:34 PM

For Cirdan, how about this:
Name: Blessings of the Sea (since he lives near the sea)
Effect: Leadership bonus (I'll leave it to you to decide the value) and auto-heal (think well) to nearby troops.
I don't know what level it should be at, I guess it would depend on how strong the leadership bonus is.

And for Elladan and Elrohir:
Name: Brothers in Arms
Effect: Leadership for both when they're together OR base it on glorious charge, but have it only effect those two.
I'd recomend this being at level one if you choose the first effect, or a higher level (5+) if you decide on the second.

Oh, and Elvenlord, I noticed that you are asking for ideas for a sig. How about something supporting TEA (you only post in it's forums, after all) like...a picture of all the Elven Heroes together. You could ask Celeglin render that for you.
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#14 Elvenlord

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 09:36 PM

Cool :dry:

Cirdan could have like a storm power for level 10, like it summens a storm that destroys everything,
like word of power

Are you going to make the brothers unique or similar to each other?
One give a defense leadership, another attack :cool:

the minstrels sound awesome, they'll probaly be the most unique unit in the game :p

YES!!!! FINALLY SOMEONE ANSWERED!!!!!! That's a good idea, could you do it Celeglin?
I :wub: Nazgul Lord and Celeglin (and adummy :p )

Edited by Elvenlord, 02 November 2006 - 09:40 PM.

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#15 adummy

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 10:06 PM

maybe you could have celeglin be his own hero this time so they are equal

that would help so the elves dont have tons of heros
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#16 Elvenlord

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 10:07 PM

And then both would have 6 heros :dry:

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#17 Nazgul Lord

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 10:29 PM

On the Mirkwood spear guys (forgot their name), are you going to give them a shield? Please don't, a shield just doesn't seem right for stealthy guys from Mirkwood. If you don't, them obviously they can't have shield wall formation (ambush formation, maybe?) and maybe you could make new animations - idle anims really, to that they hold the spear with both hands. That is, if you are using Towerguard or Easterling anims. If you are using Uruk Pikeman anims, then they won't need new ones (but I doubt that). I also doubt that uruk anims would look good on an elf. If you want, I could draw a concept of them for you.

Oh, and on an offtopic note, I'm glad you liked my idea Elvenlord. Your posting spree is amaizing: almost every thread in TEA's forums has "Last Post By: Elvenlord". Truly, thou art the king of rapid-fire posting! :dry:
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#18 Celeglin

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 11:46 PM

For Cirdan, how about this:
Name: Blessings of the Sea (since he lives near the sea)
Effect: Leadership bonus (I'll leave it to you to decide the value) and auto-heal (think well) to nearby troops.
I don't know what level it should be at, I guess it would depend on how strong the leadership bonus is.

Currently, I have Cirdan down for a speed increase leadership to nearby Lindon elves, though that's not as relevent anymore because the slow Spearmen won't be the only Lindon units. I won't take the auto-heal though: want that to be specific to the Minstrels/Handmaidens.

And for Elladan and Elrohir:
Name: Brothers in Arms
Effect: Leadership for both when they're together OR base it on glorious charge, but have it only effect those two.
I'd recomend this being at level one if you choose the first effect, or a higher level (5+) if you decide on the second.

I've already decided that Elladan and Elrohir will give leadership to each other like my Frodo and Sam. I'm also determined to get them to have the option of making a 'combo horde' to unlock more abilities (namely your glorious charge idea).

Cirdan could have like a storm power for level 10, like it summens a storm that destroys everything,
like word of power

I like this concept, but not necessary a WoP type ability... I'll come up with something.

YES!!!! FINALLY SOMEONE ANSWERED!!!!!! That's a good idea, could you do it Celeglin?
I :dry: Nazgul Lord and Celeglin (and adummy :p )

If I find time, I'll whip something up for you.

maybe you could have celeglin be his own hero this time so they are equal

Nah... I think it's alright that one faction has less heroes than the other. Rohan has more heroes than Gondor, but that doesn't make them unbalanced.

On the Mirkwood spear guys (forgot their name), are you going to give them a shield? Please don't, a shield just doesn't seem right for stealthy guys from Mirkwood. If you don't, them obviously they can't have shield wall formation (ambush formation, maybe?) and maybe you could make new animations - idle anims really, to that they hold the spear with both hands. That is, if you are using Towerguard or Easterling anims. If you are using Uruk Pikeman anims, then they won't need new ones (but I doubt that). I also doubt that uruk anims would look good on an elf. If you want, I could draw a concept of them for you.

The Mirkwood spear units will not have shields. And yes, I will have to work out something for the animations... I despise the Rhun animations, the Towerguard just won't work, and the Uruk Pikemen just aren't what I'm looking for (I don't want them to just go around poking people). I'll figure out something, but for the moment I'm stumped. Anyway, there's no need for concept art: I already have them planned out.

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#19 Elvenlord

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 03:09 AM

I am the King! :p


I just meant it to be like WoP just in the kill everything concept :cool:


Thank You :dry:

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#20 adummy

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 04:41 AM

Do you think you could whip me one up cel :dry:
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