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A Total Victory for Democrats in Congress...


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#1 Hostile

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 04:06 AM

Well doesn't this seem interesting. Democrats have succeeded in achieving control over both Houses of Congress.

What exaclty does this mean on the world stage? I start by quoting a cnn video. I wish I could post the source but can't technically, it's a video.

"Most Iraqis don't know what a democrat is but they know it's not a republican." ~CNN commentator

"Iraqis are hopeful and eager that now that there is a new balance of power in Congress that President Bush will.. blah blah"

Well the democrats have talked the talk, let us hope they did not bite off more than they can chew by not letting the Republicans finish the job, because the last one there will wear the pie in the face. Look at Vietnam, more people remember the last President (Nixon) badly there moreso than the first one. (Kennedy)

"I hope the democrats will be more kind to my people" ~Iraqi civilian (Didn't we remove Saddam?)

"I hope the democrats will help provide more security for us" ~Iraqi civilian #2 (Democrats= troop reductions)

These people don't have a clue that the democrats are on a platform for REMOVING the US troops from Iraq? Has anyone told them that? Wait till they find out. ;)

Iraqi government stated is wasn't so happy as it may result in the removal of US troops from Iraq, though the US ambassador reminded them that the President still runs the show on those decisions.

Well at least till 2008 :grin: That should be enough time for the US population to feel the effects of the overturning of the tax reductions that Bush enacted. (You know like people below $12k a year didn't pay taxes, now people below $15K don't) Go ahead roll that back and see how people who have adjusted thier income to the new taxes like it. ;)

So the democrats have now the faith of the Iraqi people to fix everything that has gone wrong there (even though most is self inflicted) and are waiting for the glorious democrats to follow up.

This is gonna get very interesting... :thumbsupsmiley:

So the democrats now took the shit pie called Iraq from the republicans before they finished thier job, so now you can eat that shit pie or wear it, however you prefer your pie... ;)

#2 lefthand

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 05:20 AM

Unfortunately I don’t feel that the democrats have earned their current positions of power in the US senate nor house. The only reason why they have been voted in is because of the mess and corruption generated by the republicans…not because any of their genuine ideals. And if democrats have formalized a plan it certainly hasn’t been heard or made coherent. I’m hoping this democrat victory is more of a victory for Americans and not for partisans. However I don’t feel things in Iraq are going to improve any better in the next two years…not matter who became elected.
You mention that democrats are for REMOVING troops out of Iraq but should mention that all American politicians, whether republican or democrat, are for withdrawing troops. It really is an issue of how many and when. The majority of Americans already show regret for the war and have lost their patience with it.
The training wheels for the Iraqi government are going to have to come off at some time and stability in Iraq cannot always be our liability. Occupying Iraq is becoming a very expensive and counterproductive operation for American power and influence within the world. We can’t be there forever and we are going to have to allow Iraqis to influence the government; not Americans. Many Iraqis see American intervention as a destabilizing force and a shocking majority of Iraqis are starting to support terrorist/insurgent attacks upon American troops.
Lastly, republicans were finished in Iraq when they failed to purpose a coherent and successful plan for Iraq’s post-Saddam era. At one point we wanting to win their “Hearts and Minds” to decimating their country with “Shock and Awe”…talk about mixed signals. Simply just “staying the course” is not a plan with the current status quo.
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#3 Hostile

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 06:02 AM

The training wheels for the Iraqi government are going to have to come off at some time and stability in Iraq cannot always be our liability. Occupying Iraq is becoming a very expensive and counterproductive operation for American power and influence within the world. We can't be there forever and we are going to have to allow Iraqis to influence the government; not Americans. Many Iraqis see American intervention as a destabilizing force and a shocking majority of Iraqis are starting to support terrorist/insurgent attacks upon American troops.

Carefully analyse this, I cannot find anything in this statement that doesn't make sense. This is possibly the best worded statemnet I've seen on the subject.

I'm left-handed also, not that it matters but Lefthand post more, I would like to learn some more on your opinions...

#4 duke_Qa

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 08:18 AM

i think theres alot of facts in that one actually, i don't see what part you think doesnt make sense. its expensive for the US to pump billions of dollars into the military in Iraq and it makes the americans unpopular because the reasons to attack Iraq has been shown to be untrue. it is also proved that terrorism rarely is defeated through brute military force, but through more soft-military tactics like making sure civilians have what they need and doesnt have a good reason to hate the foreign powers roaming about.

i am lefthanded too so this is a leftie-topic as it would get in US politics :thumbsupsmiley:

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#5 Solinx

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 11:53 AM

I cannot find anything in this statement that doesn't make sense

i don't see what part you think doesnt make sense

Hostile does think it makes sense :thumbsupsmiley:

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Edited by Solinx, 09 November 2006 - 11:54 AM.

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#6 Banshee

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 02:15 PM

"I hope the democrats will be more kind to my people" ~Iraqi civilian (Didn't we remove Saddam?)


- I agree with the Iraqi civilian here. The way Saddam was removed brought chaos to Iraq. And their infra-structure was nearly wiped out before Saddam was removed. An absurd ammount of iraqi citizens (including many terrorists, but unfortunatelly not only them) were killed by americans after Saddam was removed. Prisioners on Abu Grabi were.. well, I'd better not talk about it.... anyway, by removing their troops from Iraq, USA will certainly be more kind to Iraq citizens than keeping them there.

"I hope the democrats will help provide more security for us" ~Iraqi civilian #2 (Democrats= troop reductions)


- Unfortunatelly, the presence of americans in the region inspire terrorists. The conclusion is unanymous on all USA security agencies, according to a report written some months ago. So, I agree with the Iraqi citizen again.
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#7 CodeCat

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 03:14 PM

Unfortunately I don’t feel that the democrats have earned their current positions of power in the US senate nor house. The only reason why they have been voted in is because of the mess and corruption generated by the republicans…not because any of their genuine ideals.

And such is the pitfall of any two-party system. People vote for one side because they can't stand the other, not because the side they voted for actually has a sensible political agenda.
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#8 Cossack

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 11:18 PM

It seems the democrats have won the senate as well. Allen has given up in Virginia....

#9 Silent_Killa

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 10:07 AM

- Unfortunatelly, the presence of americans in the region inspire terrorists. The conclusion is unanymous on all USA security agencies, according to a report written some months ago. So, I agree with the Iraqi citizen again.

Problem is that US troops have inspired terrorists. Past tense. Now if we leave, the current group of terrorists take over. However, if we stay, we just spawn more terrorists who will take over as soon as we leave.
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#10 duke_Qa

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 10:50 PM

so the truth is the US are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

the best hope is that that by the time they've gotten the forces out of there, the iraqi army is large and loyal enough to stop most troubles. if anything i believe the US will keep a airbase around with a few thousand troops and an airforce ready to support the iraqi army in the worst-case scenarios.

if anything i pity the sunnis the day that the US forces moves out, they will prolly be sent to camps because thats where most terrorists are recruited these days in Iraq. also the problem with the sunnis being the more secular than shiites is something that the western world should fear. it would be ironic if the western world turned a secular dictatorship into a fascist-fundamentalistic theocracy.

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#11 Hostile

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 11:56 PM

so the truth is the US are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

the best hope is that that by the time they've gotten the forces out of there, the iraqi army is large and loyal enough to stop most troubles. if anything i believe the US will keep a airbase around with a few thousand troops and an airforce ready to support the iraqi army in the worst-case scenarios.

if anything i pity the sunnis the day that the US forces moves out, they will prolly be sent to camps because thats where most terrorists are recruited these days in Iraq. also the problem with the sunnis being the more secular than shiites is something that the western world should fear. it would be ironic if the western world turned a secular dictatorship into a fascist-fundamentalistic theocracy.

http://edition.cnn.c...main/index.html
And so starts the enemy rhetoric. Not unlike Spain, right before the US elections the insurgents pick up the pace to cause as much death as possible. And with the proven success, the people got scared and chose a different government.

This results in increased pressure to withdraw US troops, which then results in even bolder attacks against the Iraqi government. Does anyone see why the current elections are gonna be bad for the US in the long run?

Joseph Biden is even promoting breaking the country up into 3 autonimous zones. Now if you trully want to see a civil war, go ahead with that plan. Even some democrats were raising an eyebrow on that one. Any hopes of the Iraqi forces being able to hold thier ground is a tough one due to thier nature of corruption and bias against minorities.

If my projected outcome in Iraq was bleak with republicans, it has now moved into the hopeless catagory with the democrats.

The only good that may come from this is the democrats victory was a mile wide and an inch deep, meaning they won many races by a small fraction. So if things go bad, than in two years the tables may turn right back. Except with a nice lesson learned for the republicans.

#12 Comrade Kal

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 12:08 AM

The democrats utter hopelessness cannot be shown any other way than their failure to totally sweep the board. Their campaign has been woeful considering the ammunition they have to work with. And I haven't seen them lay down a clear plan for anything.
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#13 CodeCat

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 12:23 AM

Hostile, you miss the fact that it was the republicans which started this whole mess. It's not fair to demand that the democrats solve it when it wasn't them who caused the problem in the first place.
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#14 Silent_Killa

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 12:36 AM

It is fair to expect them to do better than republicans though. That's what they've promised to do, and that's what they should do.
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#15 Hostile

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 12:49 AM

The democrats utter hopelessness cannot be shown any other way than their failure to totally sweep the board. Their campaign has been woeful considering the ammunition they have to work with. And I haven't seen them lay down a clear plan for anything.

You, me, and ALOT of people have noticed the same thing. :D Lack of a clear plan backed by nothing but condemnation.

Hostile, you miss the fact that it was the republicans which started this whole mess. It's not fair to demand that the democrats solve it when it wasn't them who caused the problem in the first place.

These are the same democrats who voted for the war, who saw the same intelligence reports the republicans saw, including many reports from Clintons time. No saying it was a Bush conspiracy or strictly a republican war. Check the facts. Even Hillary Clinton supported the war, Kerry voted for it, among many others. It wasn't a 51/49 votes for/against the war. They had every opportunity to work alongside the republicans on solving this.

You cannot say only the republicans made the decisions on thier own.

It is fair to expect them to do better than republicans though. That's what they've promised to do, and that's what they should do.

I'll assume the democrats success before I'll assume thier failure. Because I want things to work out good. But I'm also not blind to the methods used and the total lack of accountability on thier own decisions to support the same war the republicans did.

I understand alot of people not from the US did not see alot of the ads running so it's hard for them to understand the huge blame game they doused the republicans with. They're hands are just as bloody.

But ultimately if they succeed and do a great job, I have no problem voting for them next election so they can continue to do a great job. I'll vote for whomever I want, republicrat, or dempublican. :thumbsupsmiley:

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#16 Kazyumi

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 12:54 AM

"I hope the democrats will be more kind to my people" ~Iraqi civilian (Didn't we remove Saddam?)

"I hope the democrats will help provide more security for us" ~Iraqi civilian #2 (Democrats= troop reductions)

These people don't have a clue that the democrats are on a platform for REMOVING the US troops from Iraq? Has anyone told them that? Wait till they find out. :D

You took Saddam and gave them a unstable DMZ terrorist brewing land.
Democrats will actually provide more security in Iraq by taking away troops, because maybe you forgot but the reason for all the insecurity is the fact that the Iraqi (radical) people think of you as invaders.
I think that when there are less American soldiers running around there, there will be less radicalism thus it will become more secure.

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#17 Hostile

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 01:04 AM

Go tell that to the sunnis and shia killing each other that. Where does the US troops come into that again? This is happening in provinces not strictly controlled by US troops.

Even if US troops weren't there, the shia death squads would still be killing. Please reply to this point because it's important. It sets the tone on the conditions if the US troops slowly depart...

When shia police commanders turn a blind eye to shia death squads then we have a serious issue. Tit for Tat and the sunnis retaliate. Explain how to solve that deeply rooted and complex situation. US leaders can't?

#18 CodeCat

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 01:19 AM

Reinstate Saddam. It was peaceful before you invaded.
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#19 duke_Qa

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 01:28 AM

at least the terrorists would not be able to use the hate built up against the US to recruit people to fight against americans then. one thing to attack a foreign miltary power in your country and another to kill your countrymen. naturally they can call the ones in power american puppets, but i don't think it will have the same sweetness over it if they can't kill some white dude.

to be blunt, Iraq will be a hellhole for at least another 30 years i believe. Muslims are not the kind of people who forgets grudges, and they have been mentally disturbed by all the violence and death down there for generations, it won't stop anytime soon.


i don't think that people voted for the democrats because they had a brilliant plan to change things in Iraq, because they don't. they voted because they believe that which bush has been doing is not helping at all. military power will be needed anyway, but the way its used has to be changed.

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#20 Banshee

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 02:31 AM

- Unfortunatelly, the presence of americans in the region inspire terrorists. The conclusion is unanymous on all USA security agencies, according to a report written some months ago. So, I agree with the Iraqi citizen again.

Problem is that US troops have inspired terrorists. Past tense. Now if we leave, the current group of terrorists take over. However, if we stay, we just spawn more terrorists who will take over as soon as we leave.


Present tense, mate. It still inspires.

You have to understand that what attracts so many civilians to become terrorists is that their cause is usually to remove the foreign presence, the so called infidels, from their country.

Iraq has a problem and it's their responsability to solve it. If US troops leave or not the country... doesn't matter... the civil war is already happening, truth to be said. But if the troops leave, half of the idiots who die for their cause will stop, and it will be harder for terrorists to recruit people for their cause.

Reinstate Saddam. It was peaceful before you invaded.


That would be the worst idea ever, honestly... so many people killed the guy, then, when he is about to die, with a death penalty, put him back in power. Genious.

You took Saddam and gave them a unstable DMZ terrorist brewing land.
Democrats will actually provide more security in Iraq by taking away troops, because maybe you forgot but the reason for all the insecurity is the fact that the Iraqi (radical) people think of you as invaders.
I think that when there are less American soldiers running around there, there will be less radicalism thus it will become more secure.


Wise words. Scores! :D

These are the same democrats who voted for the war, who saw the same intelligence reports the republicans saw, including many reports from Clintons time. No saying it was a Bush conspiracy or strictly a republican war. Check the facts. Even Hillary Clinton supported the war, Kerry voted for it, among many others. It wasn't a 51/49 votes for/against the war. They had every opportunity to work alongside the republicans on solving this.

You cannot say only the republicans made the decisions on thier own.


I must agree with you here. Except that the democrats didn't corrupt the war in the way republicans did, but puting their friends to make business and giving them the oil in Iraq...
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