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No matter what, is there ALWAYS a little slowdown with this mod?


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#1 Seven_Force

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 10:40 AM

I have a rig that runs the hell outta this game. Playing in any scenario, on max settings, I don't ever get any slowdown or graphics problems. Of course, this excludes online play where even the most powerful of rigs could be plagued with slowdown due to OTHER players' less than optimum setups.

Anyway, I notice that at the beginning of a single player skirmish, using this mod, there always seems to be a tiny bit of jumpiness to the framerate that was never there normally. I find that it usually clears up after a few minutes of play, barely to be noticed, yet still annoying for perfectionists. Zooming of the camera or scrolling the map is just a tad more jumpy as compared to playing unmodded. I'm just curious as to why?

It's definitely not a huge, titanic issue, but still, I wish it could be remedied. I would never dare use the "AI highspeed option" as I feel that just defeats the purpose of the mod. I would only use it if the game were almost unplayable due to the jumpiness-- and on some rigs maybe it is. Does it have to do with the AI "loading" as a bot considers options?

Is it just my imagination, or is the framerate jumpiness (very small amount) worse at the beginning of a match as opposed to further in? I'm pretty curious as to how it works and if this issue could be further rectified? I know it's kind of a nitpick in a way, but the jumpiness does bug me. Otherwise, Superb mod, great work, and keep it up. I recommend this mod to anyone I talk with. Thanks.

#2 Zenoth

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 12:28 AM

I would say yes (Arkhan/Larkin/Thudo could confirm it).

It is known by now that it has been the case especially with previous versions (mostly during the Winter Assault days). However with the newest versions it's much better (well, as far as I myself can tell during my own skirmishes). It's something to be expected in the end, since the A.I code is more complex and contains more lines with this Mod, so it gets slower in certain situations, mostly with many A.I players (4 Vs 4, for example). It's a price to pay, to get a better off-line experience I guess (it's barely noticeable with my system though).

On a side note, make sure you don't force high-resolution team colors and banners, because I've heard many stories of stuttering issues and slower performance when that setting is used. The developers disabled it by default, and it's for a reason.

#3 thudo

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 04:30 AM

Drop your game details and resolution down -- does that help first of all?

Also, defrag your partitions, check for spy/malware, check no strange services are running on your computer, disable anti-virus to see what happens, run msconfig on the RUN line to see whats on startup for your computer.. Something ain't right there.
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#4 Seven_Force

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 01:24 AM

Hey Thud, thanks for taking time to reply. Lowering settings doesn't help and I have a full time Norton with regular scans and whatnot. Everything with my comp seems as good as ever. But I can absolutely confirm 100% that I do not get the jitters with unmodded play as opposed to modded. And I gotta say, most people might not even notice what I'm seeing, seriously.

I just have a keen eye for detail. I don't really like to flaunt the specs of my rig but trust me, it's MORE than a match for this and most everything else on the market today. And like I said, unmodded, and at 1280x1024 resolution I have absolutely NO issues. Pretty weird Thud that you're saying my problem shouldn't be...

You're right I'm sure, and you know a HELL of a lot more than I do. It just baffles me. I could post replays of unmodded and modded play if you want to go more in depth. Otherwise, I'm 99 percent happy with the mod as is. Also, if more people under similar conditions can't confirm what I'm saying, then I very well might be a minority here. Not worth your time if more people don't come forward and comment here on it, you know?

Edited by Seven_Force, 31 December 2006 - 01:29 AM.


#5 thudo

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 01:31 AM

Whats your processor? AMD? I've run our AI mod on even crappy machines @ work with even no proper 3d cards in em and it still works as it should. Installed WinXP OSes fresh then the game and no problems. On my current rig.. well.. it simply runs too well :p I wish I could experience yer "jitters". And my system is probably a little beyond yours since its custom made to the max of overclock. :p Just need an 8800GTX (currently OC'ed 7600GT in the box as a placeholder) which is coming.
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#6 Seven_Force

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 03:18 AM

Processor is 3ghz/800 mhz dual core. I must just be having a unique problem, specific to my rig. Strange. Like I said, only when panning/zooming the camera can I notice ever so slight jumps. It bothers me, but I was asking more out of curiosity than anything. I'm not going to give it a second thought unless others are experiencing the same thing. Maybe let this topic perculate for a few days you know?

So feel free to comment on this issue/non issue everyone. Again, thanks for your time Thud.

#7 thudo

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 05:42 AM

Wait wait.. only panning and zooming? Panning as it just moving the view? What if you just concentrate on a bunch of squads just moving before attacking? Granted, since I do not have my 8800GTX I expect slowdown as using our Advanced AI + all maxed settings I can expect more processing power to stagger the frames a little. However, if I drop all detail levels down then it runs like beyond butter.

I guess we can leave it that the Advanced AI scripts are slowing things down a little. This is expected.
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#8 Malkor

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 07:13 AM

My 9800 pro and athlon 2500 have been put through more carnage than it's likely you'll ever see in DC (just ask Thud) and I occured no slowdown due to the AI.

#9 thudo

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 10:05 PM

Guess this just floors me - how can Malkor (one of our testers) experience very little slowdown yet look at his system specs. I have a Conroe E6700 OC'ed to 3.66Ghz, 2gb Dual-Channel PC2-8000 Geek Ram also OC'ed to the tits and highend Asus P5W DH mobo tweaked to the heavens with 2xSATA2 10k rpm drives and the game runs like a joke @ 1600x1200 all maxed. I'll need Oblivion to slow me down kuzz my temp card (XFX 7600gt) is just here til the 8800GTX arrives (Yummmmmmm!).

This is what makes AI scripting a little frustrating - why Malkor doesn't have slowdowns yet S_F does (and likely has almost the same specs as me)?
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#10 Malkor

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 11:01 PM

My system is optimized to the very fabric of the meaning. Drivers, programs, windows itself.

I for one will never touch an nvidia card, although I doubt that would be responsible for any slowdown. Chances are if it's a slowdown it's because of one or two things -

1.) DC might not support dual core processing.

2.) You've got something running in the background. Something like Norton will destroy performance.

I ran Oblivion fairly well if I had the render range set to about 80% of max.

Edit - You know, someone posted on the NWN2 forums that was complaining about the game running slow on 512 MB of ram... NWN2 is the only game out right now that can really defeat my current setup. Once the R600 comes out, though, I'll be the king once more with a crossfire R600 twin dual core mega pony buster deluxe.

Also, I can fraps DC fairly well, and fraps is an absolute killer considering I'm still on super fragmented IDE drives.

http://files.filefro...;/fileinfo.html (Be sure to check "More Details" as this video is fairly old, ie within the first few days of getting DC and starting playing again.)

Edited by Malkor, 31 December 2006 - 11:06 PM.


#11 thudo

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 11:26 PM

Err.. how can a lowly AMD2500+ and a 9800Pro be even OK in DC? I have a P4 Oc'ed to 3.1Ghz, 1Gb PC3200 DL RAM, MSI FISR2 mobo + 800XT AGP8X Video machine and its okay with the game but absolutely nowhere near as good as my current box. AMD2500+ and a 9800Pro are real old and outdated so I'm beyond shocked it remotely plays anywhere close to OK?

I firmly believe u need to get a processor, mobo, ram, and video which are within a year old, d00d. Just spend most of your coin on CPU, Ram, and Mobo - video card is nowhere near as important. Not even close. Good CPU, Ram, and Mobo will carry you wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy further than a video card anyday. I budget computers for people and build em as a hobby - I'm the guy to come too for extending systems beyond their scope.
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#12 Malkor

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 11:30 PM

Lowly? Outdated? The 9800 pro is still an extremely powerful card. You don't need an 8800 right now any more than you need a twin quad core.

And, as I said, I'm holding out for the r600. When that shows up, I'll have $4k to spend.

Edit - My cpu is what bottlenecks NWN2 when I pull out five million dynamic lights and shadows. Other then that, though, it runs good.

Also, DC isn't really a demanding game. The graphics are lower rez than most of the stuff in Warcraft 3, and that's pretty bad.

Edited by Malkor, 31 December 2006 - 11:32 PM.


#13 thudo

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 11:42 PM

D00d? The 9800 is, what 2-3 generations past. I got my 9800 back in late'03 then my X800XT back in late '04. Its now late '06 and the GPU technology changes radically once a year with new updates to the core hardware sometimes 3x a year its that nuts. Yer 9800 is brutally OLD. I mean.. minimum X800XT these days can be had for three horse testicles. :blush: If yer waiting for the R600 thats not expected minimun til March (ugh!) and the price will be insane. Further, I'm having doubts ATi is gonna even massively exceed the 8800GTX as it made even a mockery of the 7950GX which was fast itself. Hope ATi can do it.. we need the competition.

As for your CPU.. gawd.. 2 horse testicles and you can get a year old CPU that'll cleans your out and have room for breakfast in the morning ;D You people never had it so good for high-end computer parts. Back in my day (circa 2001) you had to spend $5000 CDN for high end!!!! Now.. in these modern times you do waaaayyy better for half that! Frick'n lucky young folk! :(
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#14 Malkor

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 11:55 PM

Money to me is a precious thing. I'm not gonna spend 1k on an upgrade that I won't notice much difference in when march is very close.

All I intend to be playing until Project Offset comes out is NWN2 and WoW. WoW is dx7 and NWN2, well, I'll live with it.

What matters more than a fast CPU or GPU right now is software. You don't need an X800 to run anything currently out on good settings unless it's coded by a bunch of retards. Any game with developers worth a note should have good portaling and streamlined code. The problem is, is that developers like Valve often don't do things right, and the games suffer no matter what system you're on.

DC isn't programmed in a really intelligent matter, but it isn't terribly demanding, either. It doesn't use PS2.0, it doesn't have any really complicated models. My friend I know in person played DC on a p3 700mhz and a radeon 9600. He couldn't run it on max settings, but we played this very mod on that.

At this point in time, you will get more out of your system by software tweaking than by needlessly dumping money on mid-range upgrades. My 9800 performs better in most games than people who have 6800 GT's and double my processing power. Why is that? Because I know how to make things run fast. The 9800 IS an old card, I don't doubt that, but it hasn't failed me yet.

edit -

I guess if you're looking for three-digit FPS which you won't even be able to tell the difference from 70, then yeah, I can't get 150 FPS in DC on my normal settings (1280x1024 all stuff maxed). I can, however, get silk-smooth performance in all but the largest of slaughters, and since the Fraps update, I can still run that and play perfectly fine.

I run NWN on the exact same settings as DC, EXCEPT I have point light shadows off because the CPU calculation for those is far, far too heavy on my CPU when I am in my module, where I use a lot of dynamic lighting. With that off, I can play games that look like this without any issue.

edit II -

I just did the insane and recorded my Hell Gate in NWN2 using fraps. I'll get the video up for you.

Two shots of my Dock. People say water usually kills them. This runs better than the rest of the Stormspire zone. It IS rendering the entire mountain range from this point, however.

http://img225.images...06161951jk9.jpg

And yes that jpg compression is terrible.


edit - Well, I'll get you the video once I figure out why 1 minute is turning into 70 megs even with garbage quality.

edit - http://files.filefro...;/fileinfo.html Here's a good example of what NOT to do on my system.

Attached Files


Edited by Malkor, 01 January 2007 - 06:43 PM.


#15 thudo

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 03:46 AM

You need to update your hardware.. I always update every 2-3 years and even 3 years is really stretching my "outdatiness". The games these days just demand it since their pushing too much eye-candy and less on lastability and gameplay. Further, hardware is SUPER cheap.. gawd damn its like a renaissance of disposable technology ;) I can built a mid-level system for $1200 w/taxes CDN but IF ANYTHING ->>>

ALWAYS SPULRGE ON CPU, RAM, and MOBO BAR FRICK'N NONE!
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#16 Malkor

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:13 AM

$1200 is not cheap by any means. To get 1200 I need to wait four months. If I can do what I did in that video, then my system will easily do me until march.

#17 thudo

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:23 AM

Wait then on the costs of the Conroes to come down but ABSOLUTELY get a minimum of 2gb of Dual-channel ram (Recommend PC6400 to start) and a good Mobo like Asus. Don't worry about the $1200 figure.. that was with everything except LCD, Mouse/Keyboard, Printer, and Scanner. $1200 is a decent good long-lasting system but its the middle of the road.
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#18 Malkor

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:34 AM

Well, what I plan to get is something along the lines of a dual AMD64 twin core system, the best bang for the buck available at then, and around 4 gigs of ram, plus two SATA2 500gb+ drives, and a crossfire r600 setup with the appropriate mobo. Currently, the same system with twin X1850XT cards would cost about 2.5k. That leaves some room for the larger price the R600 will undoubtably take, and a more powerful sound card since I will then turn this system into my music composition machine.

Edit -

Also, if I got a new cpu/mobo, I'd need a new video card, too. That adds up in expenses.


Hey, I just got a athlon 1700 or something from someone, except the HD is fried. I should get a new IDE HD for it and see how well I can get DC going. ;)

Edited by Malkor, 02 January 2007 - 04:39 AM.


#19 thudo

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:47 AM

Bah! Get a Conroe E6400 and OC it to 3.4Ghz but you'll need PC6400 ram and a good Asus Mobo - say bye bye to that AMD64 cpu yer talking about. Thats the best bang. And yes costs do go up but thats staying current. This is what I do - recommend based on what software is out there, what your needs are, and whats your budget. Since yer a gamer, yer in a higher tier. If you were in high-end multimedia, yer into the next tier. And NO YOU DON'T NEED A NEW GPU per se.. Hell.. I have a crap 7600GT and it runs DC like a joke. Granted, I don't have AA and AF or even high-end Shadows on but everything else is maxed @ 1600x1200.

Regardless.. try your best but ALWAYS think of CPU, Lots of Ram, and Mobo. Always ALWAYS! Then build from there.
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#20 Malkor

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:51 AM

Yeah, I know right now my CPU is my biggest bottleneck. I feel it in dynamic lighting when shadow calculations start stacking up.



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