97 replies to this topic

[adummy]

-I belive you are talking about the Elvenstar mod and cel has created quite a grudge against that mod.
-I'm almost certain their were just small groups of Gondor and Rhun soliders that attacked each other. a 50 vs 50 would be a very small battle and im almost positive that happened at least a few times with the history that Gondor and Rhun had with each other. Seeing how Gondor would keep units in areas as scouts and Rhun would send scouts so they would know. Just because it isnt mentioned, doesnt mean it didnt happen.
-Elves would need quite alot of wood to make a tower, wood that can be used for a much better use

[Hot!c3 II]

Ive played this mod only a couple of times,
and from what Celegin says about what he wanted to do with the seiging,

he deffinantly implemented it well,

Its def slow at the begining but once you have all the heros and units leveled and upgraded its no prob.

Great mod anyways Cel.

[Celeglin]

The point is not really that I'm not putting in ladders and such because they weren't mentioned in the books. I'm not putting them in because from what I read of the books, I was able to create something unique for the Elves instead of having to rely on BfME's conventional siege tactics.

Furthermore, adding ladders to Elves would mean I'd have to make climbing animations for a whole lot of units and heroes, and there's no way in heck I'm wasting time with that.

And thank you, Hot!c! I'm very glad that you've enjoyed it!

[Taralom]

aahw well,

sometimes one needs his imagination to do the trick.
and sometimes it's best to stick with your sources.

you did the second thing celeglin.
and i understand.

[Vaust]

Just a note....

going back a while to elven siege machines...i think having a elven bolt thrower or somthing of the like

e.g. shoots 5 bolts and takes a while to reload, High damage to unit

paint it up with golden trims and stuff and having a crew of 2

i rekon this wood b gr8 for the team... also make it about 1000 gold to purchase and CP 25



this is jst an idea so

some player (like myself) h8 having to use heroes for everything......killing enemies..destroy buildings/gates
it wood b much easier to let them make !ents! or make them a new seige machine....

[Taralom]

i believe that's why celeglin wants heroes as siege weapons.
and yes, i too want an unit to use for the sieges but there were only a few sieges done by elves and in those sieges they didn't use siege weapons for as far as mentioned.

the only siege i know was of Dol Guldor. and there Galadriel destroyed the walls. and Galadriel is a......HERO
right

[MasterSilver]

What's up you guys. I've read most of this topic and have to agree with cell on this one. I think that elven seige is fine for the most part. One thing that I think the elves have a disadvantage on though is not being able to get at the walls as well as they should. I think a great way to remidy this would be to give one of the already existing units the ability to scale wall at a certain level. For example, maybe when Galadrium reach level 5 they gain to the ability to use grappels or ropes and climb/scale the walls. I'm not sure how hard this would be to animate, but you could have them use their bows to shoot the ropes or grapples and then have them scale the walls. You should make it take some time to give the defender time to shoot some of them down, like with all seige weapons, so it stays balanced. I think this strategy makes since since elves are very nimble and agile. It will also re-enforce the elven strategy of lightnig fast attacks and it will make stealth more useful. A great example of how elves use their agility is found in their ability to cross rivers using only ropes. Men or orcs would have to build a big bulky bridge to get across but elves just use ropes. So instead of huge bulky seige towers, each Galadrium can carry a rope or Lothorian, like Sam had which are both like and very strong. There would be a reason to have units aside from archers on the walls . Finally even if you don't want to spend your time doing this for this Mod, maybe you could use it in your expansion. I think it would add a lot of depth to the game and elvenseige strategy. Well sorry for the overly long post, let me know what you think. Peace

[Olorin]

What you have said makes sense, but I can tell you now it won't be included. Apart from the fact from being very hard to code and animate (I know of only one mod to have included this: the RA, but there are probably others ), Elven siege is fine as it is. And I highly doubt that it will be included in the expansion. Thanks for the suggestion however.

[Taralom]

well he is right. indeed elves always use ropes to cross bridges and they could walk over it like it was a bridge while the other members of the fellowship needed other ropes to hold with their hands.
but elves were always the defensive force in middle-earth and not the attacking

[Thorontur]

well he is right. indeed elves always use ropes to cross bridges and they could walk over it like it was a bridge while the other members of the fellowship needed other ropes to hold with their hands.
but elves were always the defensive force in middle-earth and not the attacking

That's the best idea this topic ever had. I can't believe it's getting shot down.

[zimoo]

I really like this idea (for Rhovanion elves), but I do notice it'd take a lot of tweaking to get it to work (as well as an enormous amount of time),

[Taralom]

well he is right. indeed elves always use ropes to cross bridges and they could walk over it like it was a bridge while the other members of the fellowship needed other ropes to hold with their hands.
but elves were always the defensive force in middle-earth and not the attacking

That's the best idea this topic ever had. I can't believe it's getting shot down.

sorry
but it is true

[adummy]

i actually really like this idea; i just dont know how hard it would be to code and animate.

[Olorin]

well he is right. indeed elves always use ropes to cross bridges and they could walk over it like it was a bridge while the other members of the fellowship needed other ropes to hold with their hands.
but elves were always the defensive force in middle-earth and not the attacking

Are you sure about that?

That's the best idea this topic ever had. I can't believe it's getting shot down.

Thorontur, your back! Anyway, if you think about how hard it is to animate and code...depends, but I doubt that Celeglin will include it, unless he really wants to try it out.

I really like this idea (for Rhovanion elves), but I do notice it'd take a lot of tweaking to get it to work (as well as an enormous amount of time),

And that just prooves my point.

Edited by Olorin, 14 May 2007 - 09:50 AM.

[Taralom]

[quote name='Olorin' date='May 14 2007, 11:49 AM' post='453073']
[quote name='Taralom' post='452462' date='May 13 2007, 01:20 AM'] well he is right. indeed elves always use ropes to cross bridges and they could walk over it like it was a bridge while the other members of the fellowship needed other ropes to hold with their hands.
but elves were always the defensive force in middle-earth and not the attacking [/quote] Are you sure about that?

weren't they??

[MasterSilver]

First I want to thank all of you guys for positive and quick responses . I thought it might be hard to animate, but I thought I'd thro that idea out there. Now about the elves being a defensive force in middle earth. They strated out as the agressors with Morgoth. They set up kingdoms and then seiged Angbond. After the Battle of Unnumbered Tears they went on the defensive because they were out matched. It really depends on how you look at it I guess. Elves in general were just much wiser then men, they knew when they were out matched, so they stayed on the defensive until they coul gather strength for a counter attack. Besides all this they could afford to wait it out . So I know that doesn't answer the quetion, maybe it helps though. Peace

[Elvenlord]

Well, for some reason it wouldn't let me get onto revora for awhile, but meh.
Anyways, it is a great idea, but like already said, too hard to animate, blah, blah.

[Lauri]

to hard to animate? I think it's more harder to code

but I do think it's doable

[Olorin]

well he is right. indeed elves always use ropes to cross bridges and they could walk over it like it was a bridge while the other members of the fellowship needed other ropes to hold with their hands.
but elves were always the defensive force in middle-earth and not the attacking

Are you sure about that?

weren't they??

The following quote pretty much sums it all up...

First I want to thank all of you guys for positive and quick responses . I thought it might be hard to animate, but I thought I'd thro that idea out there. Now about the elves being a defensive force in middle earth. They strated out as the agressors with Morgoth. They set up kingdoms and then seiged Angbond. After the Battle of Unnumbered Tears they went on the defensive because they were out matched. It really depends on how you look at it I guess. Elves in general were just much wiser then men, they knew when they were out matched, so they stayed on the defensive until they coul gather strength for a counter attack. Besides all this they could afford to wait it out . So I know that doesn't answer the quetion, maybe it helps though. Peace

...but, in general, Elves are normal. They were mainly on the defensive in the 3rd Age because they were leaving Middle-Earth as fast as they could. In the 1st and 2nd Ages they were moderate; both defensive and aggressive, but that was because they were more involved. Remember how the Hobbits (in TLotR) were saying that seeing an Elf was a rare and treasured moment (or something of that form)? That's because they weren't involved as much in the 3rd Age. So you can't really go around describing Elves as being either offensive or defensive: they're normal beings, so they will always have both characteristics.

[Taralom]

yeah i get what you mean,
but this mod is about the 3rd age.
and there they didn't siege anything but fighting of forces in mirkwood.

so as far as a remember the elves didn't attack in the 3rd age