41 replies to this topic

[Daz]

I was planning for a skirmish playable Giant Ant faction.
Basically I won't be doing campaigns for a long long time, if at all, and I've got the ants coded so I might aswell use them for something.

The basic idea I had was:
Queen Ant - MCV
Anthill - Conyard

Ant Nest - Barracks

Collector Ant (needs a better name) - Slave Miner
Worker Ant - Slave

Soldier Ant - Standard greeny brown ant, bite weapon
Fire Ant - Red ant, flame weapon
Acid Ant* - Brighter green ant, acid weapon
? Ant - They need something to beat concrete walls. This could either be another unit or could be added to the bite weapon (they could physically knock the wall down), but that's like having the Rifle Infantry able to knock down walls.

*There are ants that actually spit acid, so it kinda makes sense, and they need some variety.

The immediate problem this presents it that a Giant Ants player has access to flame weapons quickly in the game. I've played one or two games as them and quite frankly they're rush-tastic, the forces you can build with your starting money can win the game against a lower level AI.
A balance for this could be making the ants seriously weak, I can't find ini entries for the RA ants so I don't know what was actually used. Though that was for campaign ants which is a bit different to balancing a playable faction.
It's still not fair to have flamers right near the start so I was considering the possibility of having some kind of upgrade to the Anthill, called Ant Mound or something, that would function as a tech centre for them.

I'm interested to hear other people's thoughts on how it could be made to work.

Edited by Daz, 09 January 2007 - 11:24 AM.

[Twilus]

Mutatious Ant Factory - Makes huge ants (Tanks)

If you want, you can make a country known as bees

[Jeeves]

I'd make the acid eat concrete, and don't forget Scout ant! Soldier ants were blue

[Daz]

I can only find the greeny brown ones in the mixes.
XCC actaully has "Red Ant" as a description for one of the files but its still just the greeny brown one.

I can only definately remember the base level ants being greeny brown, and I think I remember some red ants too.
I should really play the campaign again.

Bees is an interesting point, as it could become a giant insect faction rather than strictly ants. It's maybe going too far away from the original game though.

[orald]

All I have to say is: "AMG ZERG RUSH!11"

Well you could have aircraft for ants as(needs a good ingame name) young queens and males have wings.
They fly a bit, mate, the males die and the queens borrow, shed their wings and become con' yards etc.

Would be funny to see actual Yuri slaves mining for the ants.

Not sure if anyone here read "New Springtime" by Robert Silverberg, it has an intellegant giant ant society. So you could have more "hi-tech" classes such as the elite-class queen bodyguards etc.

Ants would basically be a mostly mellee race(so still limited because of other sides' ranged weaponary), excluding flame and acid(like Rad Cannon?) ones, though those would still be close ranged. I suggest soldier ants(mellee) bites could destroy walls but lighter types like scout wouldn't. You could have a terror-drone like class, borrows inside tanks and all(it's already very insectish anyway). I guess for "bite" you'll use a version of whatever the Yuri Brute uses.

If you want you can make the barracks a giant queen laying "eggs"(soldiers), though that would be hard to do with all the polsating stuff going around, lots of building animation. Or alternatively a pile of larva...squishy, pulsating larva...yummy.

For water warfare...some ants can walk on water though in a limited fashion...I'm thinking of giant-squid like behaviour.

Edited by orald, 09 January 2007 - 12:40 PM.

[Daz]

I'm not sure if I want to try and shoehorn a normal faction tech tree into having ants for everything, hence the short original idea.

My idea looks like this, without building graphics obviously.

(note sequence problem on grey ant, I assume the slave has an extra entry for being "full")

[Jeeves]

I like it Sounds fun, unless you do go the whole hog, which might mess up it, making them something they weren't and loosing all original appeal. Keep it simple
Dunno about Counterstrike, but Aftermath definately had Green (scout), Blue (soldier), and Red (fire) ants.
All my favorite maps were the ones with nests on

[Gosho]

The slave ant should keep the ore in it's mouth imo.

The whole idea of reviving them is cool, but wouldn't it be better if you just made them map units only? Dominating a part of the map and scripted to attacks everyone near the nest. It'll be much less work and closer to the original.

BTW, the bees idea is also nice, Giant bees stinging tanks to death

[Daz]

Strange, both of the expand mixes for Red Alert only have green/brown ants for me. For some reason there are 3 shps but all look the same.
Are you saying there were skirmish maps with Ants on? I didn't know they were outside of the campaign.
Got any map names of these maps?

My 'Solider' ants were just named that from Wikipedia's page on ants. I didn't realise they had actual names.

[MaryJo]

All I have to say is: "AMG ZERG RUSH!11"

Well you could have aircraft for ants as(needs a good ingame name) young queens and males have wings.
They fly a bit, mate, the males die and the queens borrow, shed their wings and become con' yards etc.

Would be funny to see actual Yuri slaves mining for the ants.

Not sure if anyone here read "New Springtime" by Robert Silverberg, it has an intellegant giant ant society. So you could have more "hi-tech" classes such as the elite-class queen bodyguards etc.

Ants would basically be a mostly mellee race(so still limited because of other sides' ranged weaponary), excluding flame and acid(like Rad Cannon?) ones, though those would still be close ranged. I suggest soldier ants(mellee) bites could destroy walls but lighter types like scout wouldn't. You could have a terror-drone like class, borrows inside tanks and all(it's already very insectish anyway). I guess for "bite" you'll use a version of whatever the Yuri Brute uses.

If you want you can make the barracks a giant queen laying "eggs"(soldiers), though that would be hard to do with all the polsating stuff going around, lots of building animation. Or alternatively a pile of larva...squishy, pulsating larva...yummy.

For water warfare...some ants can walk on water though in a limited fashion...I'm thinking of giant-squid like behaviour.

This is very interesting, it kinda sounds like:

[Daz]

When you're mauling masses of infantry with insectoid things it starts to feel like Aliens

[orald]

This is very interesting, it kinda sounds like:

*Denying accusations of having scenes from that movie in mind while typing that post*

And the air units are totally NOT that scene where they ambush them in that canyon and take off with a soldier impaled on their legs.

[Daz]

Why hasn't anyone done a Starship Troopers (or similar) mod anyway?
It can't be that hard to make mostly infantry factions work, especially when boths sides are limited to them.

[MCV]

Please don't make the ants playable. You could have the Queen Ant as a crate bonus.
(If I'm right, the ant campaign was basically GDI vs Nod (Ants))

And I could PM you a very secret idea I have that would fit for the ants if you want.
In fact it would be perfect.

[Daz]

The Ant campaign was Allies vs Ants.
Allies might have had some stuff adjusted to not be standard Allies, but I don't see the Nod/Ants link.

You can PM me it if you want.

[MCV]

I'll explain my GDI vs. Nod concept:

In the Ant Campaign (TAC), you play as the Allies, with units like the Ranger (HMMWV) Medium Tank, Apache (Orca), APC, etc. You are also supplemented with Mammoth Tanks.

You enemy, the ants, use Scout ants (I think Light Tank) Fire Ant (Flame Tank) and Queen Ant (Obelisk)

[OmegaBolt]

Why hasn't anyone done a Starship Troopers (or similar) mod anyway?
It can't be that hard to make mostly infantry factions work, especially when boths sides are limited to them.

I started wondering that a year ago. But the answer never came...

This is a weird idea and if not playable in the final thing then great.

[Grimhound]

Here's my take on it, after much deliberation. Still working on it.

Faction Demographic: Weak, fast, cheap starter units. Heavy, strong, expensive end-game units. No middle-ground. Only defense VS Sea = Air.

STRUCTURES:

Queen's Chamber: Construction Yard.

Food Reserve: Power Plant. Can be garrisoned for more effectiveness. Insect cannibalism FTW.

Brood Chamber: Barracks.

Sentry Hill: Radar Tower. Works same as Yuri's, allowing detection of enemy targeting.

Feeding Chamber: Service Depot.

Wasp Mound: Helipad. Allows construction of Hive Wasp.

Warrior Chamber: Tech Center. Allows higher-end 'vehicle' units to be built from the Brood Chamber.

Sand Barrier: Defensive Structure. Sandbag Wall. Formed sand.

Hardened Barrier: Defensive Structure. Concrete Wall. Formed sand mixed with spittle to harden it.

Fire Sentry: Defensive Structure. Red Ant emerges, fires TibSunesque Flame Tank steam of flame with periodic breaks.

Pheromone Trap: Defensive Structure. Dispenses bursts of Chaos Gas around itself in short range when tripped.

UNITS

Fertilized Queen: MCV

Harvester Supervisor/Guardian: Slave Miner

Harvester Drone: Slave(there is actually a species of ant called the Harvester)

Warrior Ant/Army Ant: Black Ant. Basic Unit.

Guardian Ant: Green Ant? Acid-bite. Anti-Vehicle/Structure.

Bulldog Ant: Tesla-Trooper zap.

Terraformica: Mine-Layer Unit. Creates pits of loose 'quick'sand that 'swallow' infantry units that cross over them before needing to return to a feeding chamber for recharge.

Martyr Ant: Unstable Mutation. As an effect of the radiation that mutated them, a number of ants have began to become chemically unstable to the point of volitility. Suicide-attack unit. 'Demo Truck'

Hive Wasp: Helicopter Unit. Emerges from Wasp Mound upon attack order. Requires ability to be produced quickly so as to counter naval attacks.

Pharaoh Ant: High-level flame ant. Flame Tank. Tiberian Sun firestream.

Driver Ant: Siafu. Subfamily Dorylinae. Atom Ant. Mammoth Tank-esque unit. Extreme armor, high attack. Direct-range attack. Armor-crusher. Slow.

SUPERWEAPONS/CALLDOWNS:

Pheromone Storm: Creates temporary wide-spread Chaos effect. Doubles affected units attack speed.

Red Swarm Of Death: A-10 Strike. Flying ants come overhead and drop splashes of napalm over the target.

Edited by Grimhound, 10 January 2007 - 09:31 AM.

[Apollo]

Strange, both of the expand mixes for Red Alert only have green/brown ants for me. For some reason there are 3 shps but all look the same.
Are you saying there were skirmish maps with Ants on? I didn't know they were outside of the campaign.
Got any map names of these maps?

My 'Solider' ants were just named that from Wikipedia's page on ants. I didn't realise they had actual names.

they were this like stats for ants..check the sca**ea.inis for ant codings in the game. (not rules)

[ANT1]
Image=ANT1
Name=Warrior Ant
Primary=Mandible
Strength=125
Armor=heavy
TechLevel=-1
Sight=3
Speed=6
Cost=700
Points=40
ROT=8
Tracked=yes
Crewed=no
NoMovingFire=yes
GuardRange=5

[ANT2]
Image=ANT2
Primary=FireballLauncher
Name=Fire Ant
Strength=75
Armor=heavy
TechLevel=-1
Sight=3
Speed=8
Cost=700
Points=40
ROT=6
Tracked=yes
Crewed=no
NoMovingFire=yes

[ANT3]
Image=ANT3
Name=Scout Ant
Primary=Napalm
Strength=85
Armor=light
TechLevel=-1
Sight=3
Speed=7
Cost=700
Points=40
ROT=9
Tracked=yes
Crewed=no
NoMovingFire=yes
GuardRange=5

[Mandible]
Damage=50
ROF=15
Range=1.5
Projectile=Invisible
Speed=100
Warhead=Super
Report=ANTBITE

[Napalm]
Damage=60
ROF=25
Range=1.75
Projectile=Invisible
Speed=100
Warhead=Super
Report=ANTBITE
Charges=no

[Super]
InfDeath=2
Wall=yes

[Fire]
Verses=90%,100%,150%,150%,50%

[QUEE]
Name=Queen Ant
Primary=TeslaZap
Strength=800
Armor=wood
TechLevel=-1
Sight=5
Owner=allies,soviet
Cost=300
Points=100
Power=0
Bib=no
Crewed=no
Capturable=no
SelfHealing=yes

I do believe if you do a ant faction as 3rd it will truly set your mod apart from all other RA1 recreation mods and the ant colors in the missions were country colors used..basically fire ants were russia (red) owned and so on as shps are just remaps as you saw.

Edited by Apollo, 11 January 2007 - 09:15 PM.

[MaryJo]

Why hasn't anyone done a Starship Troopers (or similar) mod anyway?
It can't be that hard to make mostly infantry factions work, especially when boths sides are limited to them.

Exactly my thoughts, but i think it would be very hard, NOT impossible though, to make such mod. mainly because of the enemy faction, a 3d artist would be necessary with animation knowledge (a really good one). other than that, it would be a cool mod to see around