59 replies to this topic

[Tovarich]

Thanx for that very detailed report Zenoth

[Markoso]

Troub, unless 2.2 is radically different from 2.1, all you need to do is edit the racebuildbasestrategy.ai files (\Dowai_mod\Data\ai\races\chaos_marine_race\strategies\chaosbuildbasestrategy.ai for example). There should be a line that looks something like what's below, just change all the return values to the strategy you're aiming to get. (Below is chaos' file, raps would be all return values of 3's I believe, a little trial and error'll get you there in any case. Happy testing.



-- Now choose a program
iBuildProgram2 = iBuildProgram1 + iBuildProgram2
iBuildProgram3 = iBuildProgram2 + iBuildProgram3
iBuildProgram4 = iBuildProgram3 + iBuildProgram4
local iRandom = math.random(1, 100)
if (iRandom <= iBuildProgram1) then
return 1
elseif (iRandom <= iBuildProgram2) then
return 2
elseif (iRandom <= iBuildProgram3) then
return 3
elseif (iRandom <= iBuildProgram4) then
return 4
end

[troubadour]

@Markoso
Thx for your help, i found the related part of code, the available strategies are already commented so i even dont have to go through the trial and error phase wooo !!

[Markoso]

No problem man, I used to be onboard as a tester, and I'm rather eager to see how things turn out for 2.2 these days.

[pugman]

map: fear
resources: quickstart, high
ai: hard, eldar
me: imperial guard
one thing that i came across several times was the eldar farseer running into my base then doing nothing no powers nothing, the same thing also appears to hapen with warithlords too and sometimes dreads is this dc or skirmish mod

when playing against guard im not sure they use hit and run at all i felt really man rushed wave upon wave like WA ai it was on
map: dead mans crossing
resources: quickstart, high
ai: hard, imperial guard
me: marines

odd or am i just shit

Edited by pugman, 23 January 2007 - 01:36 AM.

[Etherial]

I have a funny feeling that sync errors in replays are caused by SCAR. Replays store all commands by the players (be they AI or human). SCAR commands are 'neutral' - they do not come from a player (even SCAR run by an AI player). As such, the SCAR commands are not writen to replays, thus causing sync errors.

Yes, I will be around to make sure the DLL is compatible with next patch.

--

Please, in 2.2 have a feature in the Control Panel that will turn off all SCAR with one button, so that we can turn off the SCAR so that we can share replays.

Maybe the default installation can be with NO SCAR used, just like the older versions of this mod, but then if people want the SCAR code, they can go in and turn pieces of it on, the pieces that they want?

Then a person who never shares replays and never plays online might be able to have all the SCAR turned on and be fine. For those of us who either go online to play with friends or who share our replays, it would be nice to have a single button that turns it all off and maybe have that off position be the default installation.

[troubadour]

It seems to me Ork basic strats is broken i disabled alternative strats in the AI control panel
and playing SM (me) vs Ork on a 2 players map (faceoff) the AI did nothing at all
here is the replay (ai highspeed disabled, ai scar enable...)

Attached Files

•  2P_FACEOFF.2007_01_23.20_40_13.rar   47.54KB   11 downloads

[thudo]

Just tried the basic strat (Buildprogram 1, right?) and had an SM vs Ork HARD AI and the Orks preformed fine. This was on 2p_FaceOff. I didn't see anything broken.. I think yours was just an anomaly. Like the IG, Ork Infantry are quite shafted in DC. Shooty races like SM and Tau can easily ping em off as they run into combat. Hate sh*t like that and Relic needs to reestablish the Orks with more HP and Armour so they don't get slaughtered by cheap-a*s SM.

Remember.. PLEASE play more than one game AND on different maps to reproduce the problem(s). IT MUST BE REPRODUCABLE across different sessions and maps.

[LarkinVB]

I mentioned an error with ork AI which will cause them to do nothing. Perhaps troubadour missed that fix Arkhan was showing (1st page).

[Zenoth]

I mentioned an error with ork AI which will cause them to do nothing. Perhaps troubadour missed that fix Arkhan was showing (1st page).

Such as the Gretchins in my report ? Or is it related to other units ?

[thudo]

Thanks Larkin.. the fix was applied here before my test. However, I gather troubadour would mentioned that right away regardles of the strat used. Thats an easy give-away as the Ork AI would have given a Fatal Exception error immediately when the first Slugga squad was created.

Zenoth: I've noticed that too but Arkhan and I agree its likely a Relic problem where units attacking the enemy will, for no apparent reason, pause in combat and simply do nothing all the while getting assaulted and likely die. I've also seen Engineers do this and get stuck in idle mode but its somewhat rare.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

I have a funny feeling that sync errors in replays are caused by SCAR. Replays store all commands by the players (be they AI or human). SCAR commands are 'neutral' - they do not come from a player (even SCAR run by an AI player). As such, the SCAR commands are not writen to replays, thus causing sync errors.

Hmm, not sure about that. Zenoth showed screenshots of IG bunkering which is also done by SCAR. Shouldn't it have been crashed with the first call of a SCAR command? Maybe it's only a special SCAR command. Deactivating SCAR via game manager might reveal the truth...

Yes, I will be around to make sure the DLL is compatible with next patch.

Thanks!

map: fear
resources: quickstart, high
ai: hard, eldar
me: imperial guard
one thing that i came across several times was the eldar farseer running into my base then doing nothing no powers nothing, the same thing also appears to hapen with warithlords too and sometimes dreads is this dc or skirmish mod

when playing against guard im not sure they use hit and run at all i felt really man rushed wave upon wave like WA ai it was on
map: dead mans crossing
resources: quickstart, high
ai: hard, imperial guard
me: marines

odd or am i just shit

Ahem... is it too much to ask for a more polite behaviour?!

It seems to me Ork basic strats is broken i disabled alternative strats in the AI control panel
and playing SM (me) vs Ork on a 2 players map (faceoff) the AI did nothing at all
here is the replay (ai highspeed disabled, ai scar enable...)

I'll have a look at it...

Such as the Gretchins in my report ? Or is it related to other units ?

Gretchins use the standard builder code except that they are able to reinforce. I know that Gretchins sometimes get stuck somewhere which is unique to them.
The engineers in general still have the suicide rush problem which is compensated 90% by the special correction code for it, but some weirdos still happen from time to time.

[Zenoth]

Such as the Gretchins in my report ? Or is it related to other units ?

Gretchins use the standard builder code except that they are able to reinforce. I know that Gretchins sometimes get stuck somewhere which is unique to them.
The engineers in general still have the suicide rush problem which is compensated 90% by the special correction code for it, but some weirdos still happen from time to time.

I see.

Well then there's no major concerns about Beta 1 that I am aware of at the moment, other than perhaps the Sync Error during Replays (which will considerably diminish the precision with which I can normally analyze them and report here). If it wasn't for the Sync Error (which I never saw prior to 2.2 Beta 1, so it's unique to it) I'd say that according to my three tests so far there seems to be no show stopper bugs.

As Thudo say, all the "bugs" and issues should be reproducible in at least two maps, so I will keep an eye on the things I see occurring in such conditions. I was quite busy since after my first report, but I'll make another one sometime this week, and will try different factions (I tend to play with and against the same ones). I want to verify how the Eldar deal with Webway Gates at LP's and how the Wraiths do, also I want to check back on the Broadside's Entrench ability.

Edited by Zenoth, 24 January 2007 - 01:07 AM.

[troubadour]

I had the same bug again
map : Faceoff
AI: ork all-around strat set to hard
ai highspeed disabled
ai scar enabled

I wanted to add the ai log file but i had none, i mean usually (with others race AI (tau, SM, Crons) i had one but in this case no, i am 100% cause i deleted all the ai log file before starting a new game
and once the game ended i wanted to have a look at it but i had nothing on my hard drive
So maybe it has something to do with the AI strange behavior ?

When i say AI is broken it is not that i won easily, i mean the AI did nothing at all
after 9 min in game it had only 1 HQ and 1 gretching squad, and 0 point capped, 0
slugga squad, 0 big mek, NOTHING to through at my SM


@Zenoth
Do you talk about the Scarab:: AlwaysAttack() in the sluggaboyztactic.ai file, i edited it and replaced with SluggaBoyzTactic::AlwaysAttack()
before my 2 tests (today and yesterday), am i right ?


Here is the replay

Attached Files

•  2P_FACEOFF.2007_01_24.09_18_36.rar   47.39KB   11 downloads

Edited by troubadour, 24 January 2007 - 08:40 AM.

[thudo]

Troubadour.. as I asked: PLEASE try a different map with the same settings. Same result? Something is obviously wrong on your end as I tried your exact settings and the Ork preformed fine. If the Orks aren't building anything then check the console. Shift+Control+~ and tell us what the problem is OR play the same game, then exit the game completely, then go to the logfiles folder, then the last game played, and in the ailog.txt file look for the error. Tell us what it is.
What yer telling us is point-blank a problem with your AI. I would HIGHLY recommend uninstall and reinstall of v2.2.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Do you talk about the Scarab:: AlwaysAttack() in the sluggaboyztactic.ai file, i edited it and replaced with SluggaBoyzTactic::AlwaysAttack()
before my 2 tests (today and yesterday), am i right ?

Okay, I think the problem is pretty obvious. You wrote SluggaBoyzTactic::AlwaysAttack(), but it must be SluggaBoyzTactic:AlwaysAttack(). You have a colon too much. I'm only surprised that you didn't get a fatal AI error message, but I guess it's only shown in dev mode.

Edited by ArkhanTheBlack, 24 January 2007 - 02:44 PM.

[troubadour]

@Arkhan
Thx, i must have too much C++ in my head, sorry and many thx for your help

@Boss..sorry.. @Thud
I share your views but as i said in my previous post the log file was not generated
that s why i thought there was a big problem and as a tester it is my responsability to point it out

Whatever, the problem is solved, mea culpa, i suck at editing lua file
back to play-testing the mod

[Corsix]

I have a funny feeling that sync errors in replays are caused by SCAR. Replays store all commands by the players (be they AI or human). SCAR commands are 'neutral' - they do not come from a player (even SCAR run by an AI player). As such, the SCAR commands are not writen to replays, thus causing sync errors.

Hmm, not sure about that. Zenoth showed screenshots of IG bunkering which is also done by SCAR. Shouldn't it have been crashed with the first call of a SCAR command? Maybe it's only a special SCAR command. Deactivating SCAR via game manager might reveal the truth...

Sync errors occur when the (replay / network player / something) requests that game game state carry out a command, and the game state evaluates the command to be invalid. This happens as a result of two game states (eg. the local one and the one that made the replay) becoming different. When for example attrib files differ, one game state may think a squad is dead, and another says the squad is alive and killing stuff, hence a sync error. With the SCAR donations, it could be that donations are done, then later, a game state has an AI buy something, but a remote game state sees the command as invalid because the AI player does not have sufficient resources (because it didn't have a donation). Likewise, with SCAR bunkering, it neednt be the actual bunkering causing the sync error, but the debunking (eg. a remote state didnt bet the bunkering command, so now that the unit is trying to debunk/trying to debunk half way across the map) may be causing the error.

At least, that's my take on sync errors and SCAR.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

@Corsix
Well, does that mean that every mod which uses SCAR scripts causes sync errors in replays or is it just our special AI workaround SCAR. I'm reworking the heroes mod at the moment and since it's 100% SCAR, this would mean that it will also cause replay sync errors. Not really motivating.
I wonder why Relic implemented a script language which breaks their own replays...

[Corsix]

Well, we're using SCAR in a way that it was never envisioned to be used, and I can say for a fact, that the way my DLL calls SCAR, nothing is written to the replay file (the command send to Corsix_DoScarString is executed on the raw lua state of the SCAR object). This is all speculation, but map related SCAR -> run by all players and run on a replay. As long as it behaves itself, won't cause sync errors. Victory Condition SCAR -> run by all players, as long as what it does is the same on all PCs, then it should be OK (as the map SCAR is). AI SCAR is only run on the PC running the AI player, and unless the command you run on the SCAR lua state is saved to the replay / sent to other players, I think it will cause sync errors. Eg. while the SCAR string to be executed is not saved to the replay, the command "garison squad XYZ in building ABC" might be.

I'll be available at the weekend for some multiplayer SCAR testing, if you want it.