24 replies to this topic

[ThetaOrion]

There are a few problems with the DoWXP 3.61 AI, and before Thud freaks out because I posted, it's not just me who is seeing them -- a dozen people reporting, possibly a hundred different maps, and maybe a thousand different games.

Summarizing the main points being made regarding the AI:

1. The Chaos AI in DoWXP 3.61 isn't producing right. One user said that Chaos AI is doing forced labor, and then losing builders and not getting them back in time. If so, then either the Forced Labor must be turned off from the beginning so that Chaos AI keeps its builders, or if used, the AI must remember to turn it off before the builders die or must remember to rebuild more laborers when the others die. Maybe build programs need to be checked too?

2. I do know from my own experience in a game or few that the Chaos AI often has as much as 20 minutes to do things unmolested on the large maps I have played with DoWXP 3.61, and the Chaos AI never sends anything except the initial obligatory raptor and cultist squad -- midgame of all things -- and they die instantly. And, when I go to the Chaos base, they have done nothing in 20 minutes, and I see more AI ally Orks in their base than Chaos in their own base. Something seriously wrong with Chaos AI in DoWXP 3.61, because I don't believe that beefing up the Chaos stats is going to fix all the problems, although I'm sure that for 3.65, Riker is going to be beefing up the Chaos statistics and making them more powerful on the balance side in order to compensate for their lack of AI production.

3. Chaos AI not fighting for or contending for strategic points or resources, but then how can they when they aren't really producing anything of note?

4. There's also some things wrong with the SM AI in DoWXP 3.61. In one of the games I played, about six or seven advanced SM troops (Relic's Gray Knights) and about 6 SM AI tanks including at least 3 Baal Predators just gathered around a listening post that I had capped, and they just stood there frozen for about ten minutes, while I lost one capload after another of Tau while going after the Orks nearby. I could have used their help, but the whole SM army was just frozen in place picknicking or doing nothing for a third of the game. That's not right, and it was very noticeable. I know that Arkhan wouldn't want to leave that in his AI once he knows about it.

5. I have also noticed that the SM AI in DoWXP 3.61 don't seem to fight for and concentrate on getting strategic points either. They often have enemy Ork listening posts in their very own SM territory, and they don't even bother attacking them, and they certainly didn't fight for and get the listening post in the first place, when the enemy Orks can come from all the way across the map and get them instead SM AI getting them in their own territory.

Those are the big AI related things that I noticed or that stood out big time with DoWXP 3.61. I suppose Arkhan is over there and possibly seeing some of it, and hopefully, Arkhan will help Riker fix up some of it, as I suppose Riker isn't as anywhere near as good with the AI as Arkhan is. But, I mention or summarize some of it here, just in case any of it has 'bleeded' forward into version 2.2 of the AI Skirmish Mod itself, so that the real testers here can be looking for it and either confirm or deny that some of this stuff continues or doesn't continue forward into the 2.2 AI Mod itself. Some of it is pretty big nastiness and is actually affecting the gameplay, and I do know it and believe it to be AI related, the stuff that I mentioned here at least. There's other problems there in DoWXP 3.61 that are mostly balance related, and I do believe that Riker is handling those well enough on his own.

Edited by ThetaOrion, 14 February 2007 - 12:16 AM.

[thudo]

err.. DoWXP is a DC balance mod which Arkhan is on.. Does this seem relevant to vanilla DC? Theta.. wrong forums methinks?

[ThetaOrion]

Well, of course Thud, you would find something wrong with anything I post, you have been doing so for over a year now. It's habit now -- gang up on Theta. I know that you don't want to hear anything that I have to say and that you really don't want to make the AI Mod as good as it can be. But, Arkhan still listens and cares, and that's all that matters.

Like I said in my post here up above that you are complaining about:

I mention or summarize some of it here, just in case any of it has 'bleeded' forward into version 2.2 of the AI Skirmish Mod itself, so that the real testers here can be looking for it and either confirm or deny that some of this stuff continues or doesn't continue forward into the 2.2 AI Mod itself.

You never read anything I write but only complain about it.

I know as sure as I live and breathe that Arkhan got a lot of his core 2.2 AI Mod goodies for the vanilla here from DoWXP work itself, whether DoWXP is a balance mod or not. But, you go right on finding things wrong with what I have to report and go right on discounting it, and I'll just go right on being brave and reporting it when I think it is relevant to the vanilla here at hand. This is relevant to 2.2 AI Skirmish Mod as portions of this mod is currently based largely off Arkhan's breakthroughs for DoWXP.

The two can help each other be better, just like DoWPro and LarkinVB was helping and is helping the AI Skirmish Mod to be better, even though DoWPro is a balance mod. The only reason you are having problems with it Thud is because I'm mentioning it. You have no problems with it when Arkhan or LarkinVB mention it, even though they are working on those balance mods while coming up with their ideas to improve the AI Skirmish Mod here. Loosen up a bit. I'm still a big fan and a big promoter of the AI Skirmish Mod -- what more do you want? Thanks to LarkinVB and ArkhanTheGreat, DoWPro, UC Mod, and DoWXP all have large portions of the AI Skirmish Mod in them, and the AI Skirmish Mod has gotten most of its great breakthroughs from LarkinVB and Arkhan while they were working on those 'balance mods' helping them to function and grow. It's called synergy. You should look it up and make sure that as the leader you take advantage of it any way you can. The whole AI Skirmish Mod benefiting from the combined whole of its contributing parts, including DoWPro and DoWXP, and even UC Mod, I learned a lot about the recent AI Skirmish Mod from that too.

Edited by ThetaOrion, 14 February 2007 - 12:38 AM.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

@Theta
It's better to post those changes in the dowxp thread. I watch this thread too and give advices if I think it'll help. But as long as 2.2 is not finished I don't have time to keep the dowxp ai up to date. As soon as 2.2 is finished and release (which should be very soon now), I'll help Riker porting the new AI to his mod. At this time I'll have a look at the AI problems of dowxp. Therefore it's best for you to make a list with AI issues and wait until I'll rework the dowxp ai again. Posting the issues here is not good since Riker is not watching this forum, and he usually handles the basic AI issues himself.

[thudo]

I admire you Theta for your writing and passion -- your comments on DoWXP-related material, however, is out of place here as Arkhan said. Further, I do read your comments since Day1 and note them.