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#41 Solinx

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 06:53 PM

I didn't ignore your post, because I wasn't addressing your post. I was directly addressing Gamemate. And like the bats who've lost their voice, I think Revora's leadership has lost it's way and needs to be given directions from those who use Revora. That was the entire essence of that metaphor - the idea that the admins and higher are the solution to all Revora's problems, completely disregarding the feelings and sentiments of the memberbase, and then blaming said memberbase when they begin to complain and wonder why the hell things have suddenly gone against them.

I think I came close to understanding your metaphor then. I thought you didn't like bats who have lost their voice. I thought you meant it as a lack of communication, a lack of keeping contact with the surroundings, the memberbase, flying without direction, acting at our own ideas, not consulting others.

That is why I said you ignored my post, because I confirmed that we need more and better communication between members, both staff and non-staff.

I hope this explains it.
BTW. I still don't see the last part ("and then blaming said memberbase when they begin to complain and wonder why the hell things have suddenly gone against them.") in your metaphore.

A proper explanation was all that was needed with regards the removal of the Black Market. Followed by suitable rebuttals to the suggestions put forward by the likes of Destroyer. If that's too much to ask, then...well, the belfry should be torn down.

Yes, there again, communication was lacking. The problem is that improving communication doesn't happen over night, it involves an habitudal change.

I have replied to Destroyer, as have others. That was just over 2 hours ago.

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#42 Lee

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 07:03 PM

Why is Meaaov getting dragged into all of this? Me and Banshee sorted this out a while ago so no need to go back to it.

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#43 ihateharriers

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 07:10 PM

- What division would you prefer to be admin for? Or would you want to be admin for the general forums? (For those who don't know: That position doesn't exists, but to prove that we're open for ideas, perhaps it may come to existance if a good reason is supplied)

Either RCAlert or CNCGuild, mostly because i have experience with modding as well the graphic arts, which i hope to make into a career someday.

- What would you do when you are admin at that location?

just keep topics clean and maybe improve the way the RA2/YR/TS/FS part of the guild is set up because even i don't think that it's all that newbie, friendly, and i think that the more newbie-friendly it is the less aggravation the more experienced modders have to deal with when it comes to answering questions like "How do i add voxels? and such. as for RCAlert, maybe some competitions and stuff to keep the art flowing cuz it does seem a bit inactive.

- Why would you want to be admin at the location you chose?

for CNCGuild, mostly because i love the CNC Games (WW ones anyways) and i love modding those games, and i wouldn't mind helping the newbies a bit more cuz that was the biggest problem i had when first starting was just the basics concepts of modding. as for RCAlert, i'm just very interested in the arts and it just seems a bit inactive here at revora, and i wouldn't mind trying to jumpstart the activity there a bit just to promote creativity and try to maybe get a few more people interested in the arts that may have not become interested otherwise.

- Why do you need admin powers for your plans? (Aside not being heard by current staff) And what powers would that be?

Most of the admin powers would be for keeping the forums clean and keeping spam and flaming to a minimal level (i don't want to see the RA2/YR/TS/FS section to end up like PPM), and i think that a competition has a bit more merit if an admin of a forum starts it, and therefore i believe that it would increase competition.

- What is your vision of Revora? How can Revora be improved?

i see revora as a great community that is really starting to feel it's age and having some trouble coping with the large influx of members - i think that the membership has almost doubled since i joined here a little less than two years ago. i think that if we gave revora a new look and streamlined the forums a bit more we could do alot with the aging part and i think that if we increase the number of admins and NLs we could possibly keep a better handle on all the new people here.

Whaddya think leaders and whoever else makes these decisions?

I didn't ignore your post, because I wasn't addressing your post. I was directly addressing Gamemate. And like the bats who've lost their voice, I think Revora's leadership has lost it's way and needs to be given directions from those who use Revora. That was the entire essence of that metaphor - the idea that the admins and higher are the solution to all Revora's problems, completely disregarding the feelings and sentiments of the memberbase, and then blaming said memberbase when they begin to complain and wonder why the hell things have suddenly gone against them.

A proper explanation was all that was needed with regards the removal of the Black Market. Followed by suitable rebuttals to the suggestions put forward by the likes of Destroyer. If that's too much to ask, then...well, the belfry should be torn down.

i whole-heartedly agree.
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#44 Banshee

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 08:06 PM

we have degraded to the point of bitching because nothing is getting done.


Things are getting done in areas that you don't look... at CnC Guild, the progress is slow, I agree. As far as I'm aware, MaruJo was hired to run YR Arg, Carnotaurus was hired to post news at CnC Guild. Mig has recently reformed the RA2/TS editing area. I guess the reform wasn't that popular, but now we have mapping forums there. CnC Guild was also represented by me and Hostile at the C&C3 Community Summit, at EALA. And the hosting support is doing fine and fast with CodeCat and Mig.

just keep topics clean and maybe improve the way the RA2/YR/TS/FS part of the guild is set up because even i don't think that it's all that newbie, friendly, and i think that the more newbie-friendly it is the less aggravation the more experienced modders have to deal with when it comes to answering questions like "How do i add voxels?


A FAQ would be a good idea for any editing forum. If anyone starts one there, I'm sure the topic will be pinned and updated often.

as for RCAlert, maybe some competitions and stuff to keep the art flowing cuz it does seem a bit inactive.


I agree, competitions keep activity flowing. The only problem is what kind of prizes we can offer, other than recognition. RCAlert is really lacking a leader and we're looking for one as well. We are also trying to setup a group of freelancers to help the network and hostees with graphics, site designs and the network bar, which is in the process of being skinned. We used to have staff who were suposed to do this kind of stuff, but progress was something rare during all this time.

Most of the admin powers would be for keeping the forums clean and keeping spam and flaming to a minimal level (i don't want to see the RA2/YR/TS/FS section to end up like PPM), and i think that a competition has a bit more merit if an admin of a forum starts it, and therefore i believe that it would increase competition.


The 'admin powers' that you need here is actually moderation powers. It allows you to do everything you said, including start competitions with a merit of being staff.

i see revora as a great community that is really starting to feel it's age and having some trouble coping with the large influx of members - i think that the membership has almost doubled since i joined here a little less than two years ago. i think that if we gave revora a new look and streamlined the forums a bit more we could do alot with the aging part and i think that if we increase the number of admins and NLs we could possibly keep a better handle on all the new people here.

Whaddya think leaders and whoever else makes these decisions?


Revora site has a new look, and we also have a forum skin that resembles it (and I'm actually using it now). The skin isn't finished, but it's looking pretty good already. MM was the one working on it. Once it's finished, it should become the new default skin. Membership has almost doubled and activity also increased a lot. We are close to 4000 visits per day, according to webalizer. If you compare it to 800 visits per day we had in 2005, we have a considerable progress in the activity as well.

Now, I agree that Revora is currently understaffed. It was much worse few weeks ago and we are working to sort this thing, including increasing the amount of admins.

Regarding increasing the amount of leaders... I don't know yet if this is needed. Maybe it is, maybe it is not, but I personally do not discard this possibility. We are redefining the NL/MiddleManagement/Admin/staff roles, which were shaken by the recent changes, such as the creation of Middle Management and all mass staff firing event. Then, we'll be able to know if another leader is needed or not.
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#45 Ash

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 12:08 AM

Well, I'll explain my currently-used metaphors.

Pots going to cross-burnings is basically 'pot calling kettle black'.
Owls calling to daylight from within darkness = wisdom calling for light of reason.
Belfry = higher up place.
Bats who have lost their voice = admins/NLs who have lost their way. As a result, they need directions to be given by the owls amongst us.
Light bulb meets battery - the 'idea' lightbulb has been illuminated.

So you see, what I say is relevant, albeit not necessarily in a lingo you're likely to immediately comprehend.

And I'm sorry, but such a change in communication CAN occur overnight. It isn't hard to just explain some shit to people. The fact that we have to pester like billy-o and have to have a gazillion posts deleted or locked to get any sort of a fucking understanding from you lot is to your discredit - openness was something DETAIL craved...and, frankly, it's only NOW I start to see where the old dog was coming from.

#46 Solinx

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 12:20 AM

Why is Meaaov getting dragged into all of this? Me and Banshee sorted this out a while ago so no need to go back to it.

I'm sorry Lee, but since Meaaov is an important part in the whole story, it's pretty much impossible to leave it out and still explain what is going on. There is no harm meant with it, nor do I think any harm is done.

- What division would you prefer to be admin for? Or would you want to be admin for the general forums? (For those who don't know: That position doesn't exists, but to prove that we're open for ideas, perhaps it may come to existance if a good reason is supplied)

Either RCAlert or CNCGuild, mostly because i have experience with modding as well the graphic arts, which i hope to make into a career someday.

- What would you do when you are admin at that location?

just keep topics clean and maybe improve the way the RA2/YR/TS/FS part of the guild is set up because even i don't think that it's all that newbie, friendly, and i think that the more newbie-friendly it is the less aggravation the more experienced modders have to deal with when it comes to answering questions like "How do i add voxels? and such. as for RCAlert, maybe some competitions and stuff to keep the art flowing cuz it does seem a bit inactive.

- Why would you want to be admin at the location you chose?

for CNCGuild, mostly because i love the CNC Games (WW ones anyways) and i love modding those games, and i wouldn't mind helping the newbies a bit more cuz that was the biggest problem i had when first starting was just the basics concepts of modding. as for RCAlert, i'm just very interested in the arts and it just seems a bit inactive here at revora, and i wouldn't mind trying to jumpstart the activity there a bit just to promote creativity and try to maybe get a few more people interested in the arts that may have not become interested otherwise.

- Why do you need admin powers for your plans? (Aside not being heard by current staff) And what powers would that be?

Most of the admin powers would be for keeping the forums clean and keeping spam and flaming to a minimal level (i don't want to see the RA2/YR/TS/FS section to end up like PPM), and i think that a competition has a bit more merit if an admin of a forum starts it, and therefore i believe that it would increase competition.

Thanks for answering my questions :huh:

CNC Guild
As you know, there are already two admins at CNC Guild. Your idea of making it more accessible for new modders sound good tho. Have you talked about this with Codecat or Mig?

RC Alert
Art competitions, yes, those would probably help activity quite a bit. BTW. Your idea of helping out the newbie modders could also be applied to art. ;)

There needs to be done more with the division tho, but competitions are a good point.

As for the use of powers. Like Banshee said, what you name falls under the moderator powers, not admin powers. Admin powers include creating/renaming/moving/deleting (sub)forums, editing member profiles, things like that.

I agree with you that an admin starting a competition attracts more people than a moderator starting a competition, although the difference is smaller than compared with a non staff member.

- What is your vision of Revora? How can Revora be improved?

i see revora as a great community that is really starting to feel it's age and having some trouble coping with the large influx of members - i think that the membership has almost doubled since i joined here a little less than two years ago. i think that if we gave revora a new look and streamlined the forums a bit more we could do alot with the aging part and i think that if we increase the number of admins and NLs we could possibly keep a better handle on all the new people here.

Thank you for your insight on how you see Revora. It really helps us in our search for ways to improve the network. :)

I stand by Banshee's answer.

Whaddya think leaders and whoever else makes these decisions?

I think that CNC Guild is staffed enough for now and that you make a good start for RC Alert. I'm interested to hear if you have more plans with RC Alert.

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#47 Ash

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 12:34 AM

Meaaov is NOT an important part of the story. This subject is purely devoted to lack of communication. Meaaov, partially, is a byproduct of this.

Either way, Meaaov is our prerogative, and should not be defiled by your bringing it into this discussion.

#48 Rawlo

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 01:28 AM

Actually, Ash I think it does add to the discussion here, because it is part of the reason that the NL's lost there grip on the reality of the situation for a while.

Solinx, Like Xeno I want to thank you for presenting the NLs case in such a manner,so that it does not make everyone here feel like we're being blaimed for it. This is something the other NLs here should look at and learn from. It's open and does as good a job as possible at trying to explain why things have been happening, which is what we want to know, and funnily enough thats all we want to know, is why things are happening. We don't really mind if you fire us, so long as you tell us why, we don't really mind if you remove something, so long as you tell us why. I hope your getting the idea here. We really don't want to hear you telling us why it's not your fault and thats predominantly what you've been doing.
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#49 Lee

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 01:43 AM

Why is Meaaov getting dragged into all of this? Me and Banshee sorted this out a while ago so no need to go back to it.

I'm sorry Lee, but since Meaaov is an important part in the whole story, it's pretty much impossible to leave it out and still explain what is going on. There is no harm meant with it, nor do I think any harm is done.


I can understand why you think that but it really has nothing to do with Revora. Basically its just another network, just like PPM is and T3A.

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#50 Destroyer

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 01:57 AM

Why is Meaaov getting dragged into all of this? Me and Banshee sorted this out a while ago so no need to go back to it.

I'm sorry Lee, but since Meaaov is an important part in the whole story, it's pretty much impossible to leave it out and still explain what is going on. There is no harm meant with it, nor do I think any harm is done.


I can understand why you think that but it really has nothing to do with Revora. Basically its just another network, just like PPM is and T3A.


It may have nothing to do with it, but it is involved in this just the same. As was stated earlier in this thread, it was apparently part of the reason for rather a lot recently.

#51 Lee

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 02:24 AM

It may have nothing to do with it, but it is involved in this just the same. As was stated earlier in this thread, it was apparently part of the reason for rather a lot recently.


Not really. Many of us worked on sites/networks at the same time as Revora before and its not interfered (bad spelling?) with Revora at all. Nor has Meaaov.

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#52 Jeeves

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 03:43 AM

Does anyone besides Sol, Blaat & GM know the difference between interogation and comunication? I find it kind of ironic that the best discussion comes from those who don't even speak English as a first language, whilst those that do insist upon complaining about a comunications breakdown by speaking only in idioms.
Whats more, this issue is one that is currently being adressed, and I feel that this is the key point here - a solution cannot be found if the problem is unknown. If any member of these forums has a problem, a question, or just want to talk, the administration is readily availible. Its not very hard for problems to be fixed before they go out of control, but its dependant on comunication from both sides.
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#53 Ash

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 11:03 AM

Nor is there any point trying to discuss an issue. The threads in question tend to get locked or deleted, or those who wish to discuss the issue get shouted at for 'whining' or being otherwise miscreants.

Again. If I'm going to get shouted at for whining, I may as well have a bit of fun while I do.

#54 Copaman

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:29 AM

Damn- I just spent 15 minutes reading nothing but bickering. And I thought this was going to be something wortwhile... Although Jeeve's point was well taken. And was Solinx's. Paradox has me confused with his DaVinci-Code-esque code talk, and I really didn't pay attention to much of the other stuff. There we go, now I'm withdrawing from this fight before I end up permanently child-less...

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#55 Solinx

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:48 AM

It may have nothing to do with it, but it is involved in this just the same. As was stated earlier in this thread, it was apparently part of the reason for rather a lot recently.


Not really. Many of us worked on sites/networks at the same time as Revora before and its not interfered (bad spelling?) with Revora at all. Nor has Meaaov.

I think Destroyer meant the part about the fear that staff members from Revora would take parts from Revora with them to Meaaov. That is the reason staff got fired without warning, whether it is a good reason or not, it is the reason, and Meaaov is involved in it.

Now I say again, Meaaov had nothing do to with it beyond being the network the staff members have moved to. I could have codenamed it Network X, but that wouldn't have improved it one bit. I couldn't leave out the move (at least it looked like that from the quote), as it was the reason to take direct action.

Nor is there any point trying to discuss an issue. The threads in question tend to get locked or deleted, or those who wish to discuss the issue get shouted at for 'whining' or being otherwise miscreants.

Again. If I'm going to get shouted at for whining, I may as well have a bit of fun while I do.

This topic isn't locked. Xeno asked for an explaination of what was going on. He and any others interested in it, have gotten an answer to that question and have indicated that they are at least partially statisfied with the answer. That means that the topic wasn't pointless.

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#56 Lee

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 02:29 AM

Thats ridiculous. Meaaov never aimed to steal anything from Revora nor does it aim to in the future. A very poor excuse to be demoted.

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#57 Blodo

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 02:33 AM

Didn't staff get fired without warning rather because Hostile likes to shoot first and ask questions later?

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#58 Banshee

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 04:30 AM

Are you guys in nutts? No, of course no one was demoted for the possibility of stealing something. This is non-sense. We were aware some of you guys would leave through the message Solinx quoted previously. Then, we analyzed those who were inactive, which had the highest probability to leave the network and we've fired them with no warning. Why no warning? Because the last one we warned wiped several forums at the RPG Guild division. We know most of the people that were fired weren't as explosive as this person, but we decided to not risk the network. Sorry if this was rude, but if no one did the mess that happened at RPG Guild, this whole thing would have been made in a different way.

And yea, paranoia doesn't take anyone anywhere... it just consume us internally. So, I've dropped this paranoia.
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#59 Lee

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 09:43 AM

I feel some what offened that you would think that I would try and sabotage Revora. Although I didn't like the way it was run I still loved the community as it was pretty much my birth place of the internet, if you understand what I mean.

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#60 Blodo

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 09:50 AM

We know most of the people that were fired weren't as explosive as this person, but we decided to not risk the network. Sorry if this was rude, but if no one did the mess that happened at RPG Guild, this whole thing would have been made in a different way.

No, it wasn't Ash's fault. It was your fault that you pissed off a whole lot of people with this bullshit. Again stop shifting the blame in someone elses direction, but admit the mistake. No matter what happened at the RPG Guild, this action only shows how much trust you put in your staff.

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