48 replies to this topic

[Kazyumi]

I'm watching a documentary about Global Warming, but this one's different from what we all know and have heard bout at school.
This documentary claims that it might just not be us who are causing the global warming.

I found that hard to imagine. As I've always been told that its us humans that are causing it.
But here's a new view on it. Haven't watched it entirely yet but I decided to let you guys see it too.

[Comrade Kal]

http://www.realclima...07/03/swindled/

[Silent_Killa]

Everyone is on someone's payroll, both sides dismiss the other side as a bunch of uncredited morons... and people believe whichever side they had already taken before. I don't believe anything other than I don't believe either side anymore.

[Comrade Kal]

There are no two sides. There is the side of pretty much everyone and all respected scientists and then there are four blokes sitting round a dinner table whose arguments get disproved every time they air them.

[Kazyumi]

This documentary actually convinced me not to believe in anything like man-made global warming...

[Ash]

Even in spite of the empirical evidence to the contrary?

While I would have to go forth and say everyone who posted on that realclimate site are a bunch of up-their-own-arse twats, I can't fault their argument. It's watertight.

[Silent_Killa]

There are no two sides. There is the side of pretty much everyone and all respected scientists and then there are four blokes sitting round a dinner table whose arguments get disproved every time they air them.

Exhibit A

This documentary actually convinced me not to believe in anything like man-made global warming...

Exhibit B

Even in spite of the empirical evidence to the contrary?

While I would have to go forth and say everyone who posted on that realclimate site are a bunch of up-their-own-arse twats, I can't fault their argument. It's watertight.

And C

I'm sick and tired of it, and have slowly but surely stopped caring simply because I have no clue anymore. I highly doubt that anyone here does either, my guess is that you've all watched a couple videos and now think you know everything on the matter. That's the beauty of propoganda, it's easy to get people to believe something when they want to.

[Mastermind]

I maintain a hearty skepticism considering that 30 years ago the grave threat facing us was global cooling. There's also the fact that there are obviously factors that aren't human related involved as well (such as the sun being more active). I don't think the science is there, and we shouldn't rush to do destructive things when we don't know the real cause.

[Comrade Kal]

Another argument would be that even if there were some sort of debate on the matter, its better to be safe than sorry. Considering it's, y'know, the world and stuff.

[Jeeves]

Exactly! I'd rather have fresh air than smog either way, and if that means I can have great-grandchildren, all the better for them!
Option a: Its just some massive global fraud conducted by hippies and billions of hot-water bottles.
Option b: We're all gunna die!
I want to be insured...

[Hostile]

I maintain a hearty skepticism considering that 30 years ago the grave threat facing us was global cooling. There's also the fact that there are obviously factors that aren't human related involved as well (such as the sun being more active). I don't think the science is there, and we shouldn't rush to do destructive things when we don't know the real cause.

I feel the same way. Back when I was young we were heading for a new ice age. Funny how that all changed in 20 years to now global warming. It's best to say the jury is still out on that one. I know a few people who must remember in the early '80s' when "scientists" proved an "ice age was coming"

But seeing most people here are 20 years old or less, it's understandable for them to think that they are now told a global warming is accurring. I was afraid back in the '80s along with everyone else about those new snow shoes.

Maybe by 2010 we'll be back to going into a ice age again. We'll have to see what the left wing, liberal, crazy, scientists will discover next. Maybe an asteroid strike that will cause global warming at the same time the clouds will block solar energy. So we can have an ice age and a global warming effect at the same time...

That should make the antarctic a great resort spot...

[Athena]

We'll have to see what the left wing, liberal, crazy, scientists will discover next. Maybe an asteroid strike that will cause global warming at the same time the clouds will block solar energy. So we can have an ice age and a global warming effect at the same time...

Not all scientists are leftwing. Also, if I remember correctly, liberal is rightwing o_O.

At any rate, you shouldn't bring political views of the individuals into this. Science ethics has several rules, one being, you judge the scientist not on their race, gender nor on country of origin. You also do not say their work is invalid because they are left- or rightwing. You judge their work and theories.

Not all scientists are not crazy, either. They do their best to make things for *all of us* better.

The explanation for the predictions switching over the years could perhaps be that there are more accurate models and theories all the time. In the 80s people / humans knew less than they do now.

I've recently (in fact, yesterday) read an article in a scientific magazine that states that indeed things are happening to the weather and the seas. I think people better start thinking of solution rather than this lack attitude of "oh, we'll see it when it happens" and then it's too late..

[Silent_Killa]

A preemptive strike, we all know how well those work out!

Please, you all act like reversing this supposed problem is a matter of propping a few solar panels up. What you're all talking about would cripple the world economy, and that means more dead people.

Not all scientists are leftwing. Also, if I remember correctly, liberal is rightwing o_O.

Economically perhaps, but not socially. I also don't think Hostile was saying all scientists are left wing, but moreso that left wing scientists create crazy theories about how we're all going to die... not that I agree.

At any rate, you shouldn't bring political views of the individuals into this. Science ethics has several rules, one being, you judge the scientist not on their race, gender nor on country of origin. You also do not say their work is invalid because they are left- or rightwing. You judge their work and theories.

You do have to take a scientists background into consideration. For example when the Iranians 'cured' AIDS.

[Athena]

Please, you all act like reversing this supposed problem is a matter of propping a few solar panels up.

True. I don't think it can be totally reversed. But it is a problem and it even gets more of a problem if people still continue to not see it as a problem but keep driving in their 1L:4 cars for example and keep polluting and denying that there is a problem.

Economically perhaps, but not socially. I also don't think Hostile was saying all scientists are left wing, but moreso that left wing scientists create crazy theories about how we're all going to die... not that I agree.

I do not agree either. It's not all crazy theories and it's not all leftwing scientists.

[Hostile]

But that's the whole point, what if all the preemptive actions didn't change a thing because the root problem never was correctly diagnosted to begin with. Why sink trillions into trying to change something when the solution didn't fit the problem.

We'd all like cleaner environment, but it doesn't mean it's gonna change the (perhaps) natural climatic changes that might be occuring.

Take the little ice age for example.
http://www2.sunysuff...le_ice_age.html
http://en.wikipedia..../Little_Ice_Age
http://www.agu.org/r...ws01/node5.html

Yet there were no human causes for the initial great warming and the eventual Little Ice Age that came after.

As well as no scientific explanation why the temperture soared for a century and dropped dramatically for 3 centuries.

This is why I cannot fully swallow humans as THE only reason for recent climate changes. We simply are not sophisticated enough to determine the root causes of short term climate change. History proves that clearly...

[Athena]

I wasn't saying humans were THE only reason heh. But I do think we should do what we can.

[Mathijs]

Typical...

If you believe there is no global warming then that is fine, I myself haven't quite made up my mind yet. But the thing I'm seeing here is just sad... even if there is no global warming, we should STILL work on making a cleaner world to live in.

The question of global warming shouldn't be used to decide whether or not to improve our surroundings, it should just be a factor for us to try HARDER in our attempts to clean up our mess.

[Jeeves]

Hear hear!
But if you reread Hostiles post, you'll see its not so much denying Global Warming, but mankinds involvement. Y'know, 'cos humans are the one species that won't have to adapt, because he "didn't do it"...

[Mathijs]

Wasn't directing my post at Hostile, was just muttering about in general.