90 replies to this topic

[JEV3]

The Prancing Pony

This topic was the former (pinned) LOTR:Q&A-topic in "The Green Dragon" - as such it was the predecessor of the new Lore-forum. History and tradition can be precious; so to avoid making this forums "history" obsolete, I have given this topic a new purpose, and consequently a new name too.

In "The Green Dragon" this was a place where people could ask questions and have some informal debates on lore in general; As there now is a whole forum with this purpose, this place will be for those who just want to have some smalltalk on any subject whatsoever.

To emphasize that the informal atmosphere from "The Green Dragon" is just continued at a new place, this has been named after another cozy inn:

Conversation between two hobbits:
Sam: "I reckon we may go a good deal further and see naught better. I'll be glad to see this Prancing Pony, I hope it'll be like The Green Dragon away back home! What sort of people are they?"
Merry: "I daresay it will homelike enough. The Pony is a good inn by all accounts."

The keeper might be busy, so don't expect him to answer any questions immediately, and if he forgets he's likely to beg your pardon in this manner:

The keeper of "The Prancing Pony":
"One thing after another drove it out of my mind. I'm a busy man. I'll do what I can to set matters right, and if there's any help I can give, you've only to name it."

One more thing: "The Prancing Pony" is supposed to be a respectable place, so please don't dance on the table, or try to jump over the Moon. There are other places for such excesses.

/begin old topic LOTR:Q&A from forum "The Green Dragon":

This topic is for asking questions about Tolkien's writings. You can ask and answer questions here.

My questions:

Tolkien meant for his writings to be a sort of mythology that would eventually come out to the world as we know it today. Elves or fairies are legendary enough, but what about Dwarves and Orcs?

Treebeard said that not until they had lost everything they had would they again see the Entwives, does this imply they won't meet until after the Dagor Dagorath?

Did Tolkien make known his inspiration for making small objects so powerful? (silmarils, rings, swords) If so what is it?

Edited by Námo, 01 May 2010 - 10:11 PM.

[zimoo]

I believe the dwarves (or to use the correct term when refering to a non-Tolkien mythology...dwarfs) were a part of Scandinavian mythologies. I myself am not "into" them though, so I don't know if that's true or not.

I believe so, although it could also be interpreted as them simply being driven out of Fangorn.

So they could be carried around/used by characters?

[GothmogtheOrc]

Tolkien meant for his writings to be a sort of mythology that would eventually come out to the world as we know it today. Elves or fairies are legendary enough, but what about Dwarves and Orcs?

I believe the dwarves (or to use the correct term when refering to a non-Tolkien mythology...dwarfs) were a part of Scandinavian mythologies. I myself am not "into" them though, so I don't know if that's true or not.

Actually dwarfs are from Germanic mythology, though I don't know any specifics. I read an old story once that talked of evil dwarfs who hid in the dark forests and kidnapped people... or something like that... they were certainly not portrayed as nice people in the mythologies.

As for orcs, Tolkien wrote this in one of his letters (letter 144, page 177-178):

"Orcs...the word is as far as I am concerned actually derived from Old English orc 'demon', but only because of its phonetic suitability... they are not based on direct experience of mine; but owe, I suppose, a good deal to the goblin tradition, especially as it appears in George MacDonald..."

One huge thing to remember though is that tolkien wrote stuff that he himself had no idea what it was... for example Tom Bombadil. There is obviously a power behind him, yet Tolkien made it very clear that there was no consious thought given by him to what power it was or who Tom Bombadil really is...

He wrote the Lord of the Rings to be a historical fantasy and as such he left stuff out so that it would read like history where the truth has been lost or is unknown. So there are going to be many (if not most) things that are up to our interpretation, imagination, and opinions with no correct answer.

-GothmogtheOrc

[Rob38]

Did Tolkien make known his inspiration for making small objects so powerful? (silmarils, rings, swords) If so what is it?

Perhaps you should not limit yourself to objects but to living creatures also. Look at the hobbits... Even the smallest and most unexpected creatures can change the course of the future.

[Mathijs]

The Final Battle between good and evil, at the end of time.

[pf7612]

Yeah, supposedly, everyone from every age, good and bad, all come together and beat the living s**t out of each other. Or at least thats what I read somewhere.

[Bart]

hm...sounds like the battle of hogwarts

[The Best Guest]

Also dwarves come form Norse mythology where they made mechiancal boars the hammer for thor and many other things.

and also for you christians does anyone else see the simalriteries(sp) between Gandalf And Jesus?

Edited by The Best Guest, 19 August 2007 - 12:53 AM.

[Eldarion25]

Both are sent by higher powers to lead the men of the world: Jesus by God, and Gandalf by the Valar and Illuvatar. Both hold supreme power and drive the forces of evil to their destruction. Both are healers and guiders. Also, if you want some more Bible/Middle-Earth comparisons, Melkor could be the Devil, the deciever, the one who wants power over all, including God (in M-E, Illuvatar), and the bannishment of the Elves could be conparible to the bannishment from the Garden of Eden.

[mike_]

Whats Dagor Dagorath?

Well, here's an ongoing fanfiction (albeit a very well-written one) right here.
Me, I'm considering writing one as well...
...wait, idea, idea! Dagor Dagorath-a mod! Yessss!
...
Not really .
Cheers,
-mike

[zimoo]

I see similarities between the Valar and the Olympians (greek gods) personally. Their chieftains are Zeus and Manwe:

Zeus - Lord of the airs, known to use eagles
Manwe - Lord of the airs, known to use eagles

Then I also see links between others, like Poseidon/Ulmo.

Certainly it's the Manwe/Zeus comparison that makes me see the extra links.

[The Best Guest]

Also Jesus Came back from the dead and so did gandalf

[Lauri]

bah 2play

Anyways, Gandalf stayed a little while longer than Jesus, and was indeed older

[JEV3]

What about Aragorn, he had to pass through the land of the dead to allow those suffering punishment (a curse) there at rest by giving them a chance to fulfill their oath.

There are similarities, yes, but what makes Middle-earth so interesting is that there are never enough to make allegories. (except maybe in the Valar and Ainur case) Except for Eru = God, Valar = Olympians, and maybe Ainur = Angels, there are no where near enough similarities to come up with any more such equations. And as it was intended to be a mythology, it really fits piecing together Hebrew and Greek religion elements into its own story.

*note* This is merely speculation on what I noticed, I am not intending to offend anybody.

[Mathijs]

Also Jesus Came back from the dead and so did gandalf

Did he?

Please, no * * emoticons. You have not discovered a secret link in Tolkien's works, and stop putting yourself in a box by saying ''you christians'' when you have something to say that relates to your religion. We all know who Jesus was. There is no underlying connection with the Gandalf and Jesus character. Similarities, yes, but no connection. Tolkien hated all forms of allegory, stop trying to dig it up in his own work.

I see some similarities to Norse and Greek mythology as well, just as I see some similarities to the Industrial Revolution. Do not confuse allegory with applicability.

[The Best Guest]

Sorry Matias

[mike_]

Sorry for digging this somewhat-ancient thread up, but what was the fate of the Dragon-helm of Dor-Lomin?
I originally assumed that it was lost in the halls of Nargothrond (?) when Turin and Glaurang had their little show-down..
However, IIRC, that was before Turin and Beleg established themselves openly from the house of Mim, in the "land of helm and bow".
I don't have my books with me, so this is all going off of memory.
Cheers,
-mike

[Dain Ironfoot]

No. Beleg died before Turin met Glaurung. What became of it, not sure. It disappears from the text, and if he kept it, he certainly never wore it openly again.

[Fyro11]

What about Aragorn, he had to pass through the land of the dead to allow those suffering punishment (a curse) there at rest by giving them a chance to fulfill their oath.

'As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...'