64 replies to this topic

[Blodo]

"What if" plans? How quick will that turn into a "possible scenario" and then afterwards into a "military operation"?

The corporatists ruling America would call it "preemptiveness", but I call it neo-fascism.

[Solinx]

And I think that making highly publicised "what if plans" will only work against the situation.

This entire conflict is stupid and being manipulated by the media. Have none of you learnt from 2002/2003 and Iraq? Why are you again discussing the same topics we were discussing a few years ago. The only reason Iran is a threat is because its becoming a large power in the middle east and putting threat to corporate dominance there. Why is everyone once again falling for corporate propaganda? All i am getting again is deja vu, except the year is now 2007 and they are using exactly the same tactics.

You are now part of this discussion too. You joined for a reason, as did we all.

Where you say corporate firms cause war, I'd rather say individuals are responsible. Corporates are not capable of making decisions, people are. In addition to those greedy for more power, money or possesions, there are also people who act out of idiology. You act out of idioligy yourself, only with another goal.

Where it invokes an expectancy from the western population, it will be used as propaganda by the Iranian government, to "prove" they have always been right about the west. If the "what if plan" propaganda and the resulting propaganda of the Iranian government is effective enough, the Iranian government may actually convince their population and perhaps other nations that are not on the best terms with the western world.

They are already doing that. Its funny, all you need to create a war is create the illusion of "enemies" via mass media. The corporate west is using media to manipulate its populance into believing theres a threat directly against them and Iran government is doing exactly the same. Its beyond ridiculous how easy it is for leaders to fool people anywhere in the world.

True, there is already manipulation happening. My point was that a "what if" plan would be another tool to easily manipulate people.

"What if" plans? How quick will that turn into a "possible scenario" and then afterwards into a "military operation"?

Indeed. "What if" plans invoke "What if" plans at the other party, which leads to "possible scenario" at the first side, etc...

There are more conditions to be met for this to happen, and in some cases a "What if" plan will indeed intimidate the other party, but with the instability around Iran, and the uncertainty in the western world, I do not think Iran will be intimidated.

Perhaps it would futher along the way, but that is a chance I would not be willing to take, and the question arises if the people of the western world would accept a no go. Either way, it wouldn't improve relations and increase chances of future conflict.

Solinx

[Tom]

Where you say corporate firms cause war, I'd rather say individuals are responsible. Corporates are not capable of making decisions, people are. In addition to those greedy for more power, money or possesions, there are also people who act out of idiology. You act out of idioligy yourself, only with another goal.

Of course, however corporations are the foundation of a totalitarianism. War is merely a part of leaders. It has happened through centurys. Those worse off (generally the working class and peasants) end up becoming soldiers and pawns for corrupt leaders who only intend to dominate. When they talk of such things as "America's national interests" it isn't americas interests, its their interest. Yes whilst induviduals make all the decisions for corporations, its corporations that have amassed so much wealth that allows them to buy out government induviduals and turn governments into puppets for their bidding. I will not blame rich men however for this state, they may be greedy and self serving, but inevitably its the ignorance of the peoples for allowing their countries and communities to be taken over by corporations. Corporations have no nationality, they are globalised. Globalisation is nothing more than a part of their ideal to centralise power in the west into a single government (based around the EU) and using the capitalist structure (as the elite have always used it) to create poverty which inevitably gives them soldiers. Day by day its becoming more and more apparent that America is merely a puppet state. They are robbing it of all its wealth through the federal reserve, replacing it with paper money that has no value and then destroying the country from within whilst American's stand idly by seeing their country being divided and conquered by corporate fascists, their children being killed in wars for profit and every aspect of their lives being filled with corporate propaganda. Its amazing.

War is merely a part of the capitalist/elitist system. Its created in order to keep the structure of society intact same as every aspect of the system. Inequality is all about keeping the elite at the top, if this changes they no longer exist. Corporations and banks are merely the tools for doing so. War is merely another tool for making profit and deceiving the people by creating false enemies. Make people believe they are being attacked they will try to defend themselves and turn ignorant to everything else that exists. Some of the greatest tyrants of all time have said quotes that are parrellel to exactly what is happening today, for example:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Goering

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” - Joseph Goebbels

True, there is already manipulation happening. My point was that a "what if" plan would be another tool to easily manipulate people.

Yes. But my point is, how stupid can people be to fall for this when this crap is only a repeat of 2002/3.

There are more conditions to be met for this to happen, and in some cases a "What if" plan will indeed intimidate the other party, but with the instability around Iran, and the uncertainty in the western world, I do not think Iran will be intimidated.

If the US or UK invade Iran there will be a huge war break out in the middle east. It might not be instant but the middle eastern countries will defend themselves from our invading armies. If we invade Iran without any real cause in doing so other than to disarm it as a developing power in that region, we are the tyrants. The only reason they want a war with Iran is because its a threat to the domination of the middle east.

Perhaps it would futher along the way, but that is a chance I would not be willing to take, and the question arises if the people of the western world would accept a no go. Either way, it wouldn't improve relations and increase chances of future conflict.

There are always more adult ways to deal with a country, its called diplomacy. Just that isn't the aim here. The aim is to invade Iran and destroy yet another beautiful country, destroy the futures of another few generation of middle eastern peoples and then steal any resources that country has for profit of the western corporations. And if Iran is really a threat with nuclear weapons remember we do have more nuclear weapons than any Iran can develop either. I'm sure Israel does too. No country would launch a nuke without being annihilated itself. Nothing has changed since the cold war with nuclear weaponry. Anyone who launches a nuke is a fool.

Edited by Hybrid, 11 April 2007 - 11:48 AM.

[Athgar]

http://www.signs-of-..... Or End Game?

I laughed.