64 replies to this topic

[MSpencer]

That leaves out the part where WTC7 was ablaze on multiple stories and had been evacuated. Isn't it easy to take things out of context? About seven hours after the first collapse, another building was clearly in almost the same shape due to fires and structural damage caused by the other two collapses, perhaps they just made a prediction, but it's ridiculous to say that the BBC, CNN, and Fox News all got together to blow up the WTC so they could reap the benefits of continuous news coverage.
And I'm a CNN news chopper pushed the British into Iranian waters, kinda dragged them over there you know. It would be nice if you realized how ridiculous you sound.

[Solinx]

I don't know anything about what happened to the buildings around the WTC, but I suspect they just had the wrong name at BBC... Big mistake, yes, but no prediction.

Anyway, the point is that we shouldn't just accept everything that is said by the media and governments as the (complete) truth. Usually the reports are from the point of view of the western world.

Here is an article on the Iranian Public Opinion and the Nuclear Stand-Off from an organisation called mideastmonitor. I have done no background check, but this article seems pretty objective to me.

An pretty interesting read on how the Iranian people look at the subject.

Solinx

[Tom]

Come on though, Iran is run by a bunch of islamic facists.

America, Britain and Europe are run by corporate fascists. There are no greater evils here. Revolution is needed all in order to stop them. They are fearful of losing power and their system being destroyed, so they are trying to keep the structure of society intact with totalitarianism. Same happened in communist russia etc. We are now following the same path. I have no idea whats going on in Iran, I will not pretend to, but still it doesn't mean I will ever support another war for corporate domination of the middle east under the guise of "freedom" and "security." Whats to ever say that those sailors never got orders to enter iran waters and get picked up, the government denying any involvement and therefore trying to create conflict and cause a pretext for war? Nothing. You wouldn't know if they had or not, so regardless what the media says, you'd never know. We all know they want war with Iran, so why are you guys all gobbling up the media like you guys did with Iraq. We know the neocons lied about Iraq and now they are causing issues with Iran. How stupid can people be to be fooled twice?

That leaves out the part where WTC7 was ablaze on multiple stories and had been evacuated. Isn't it easy to take things out of context? About seven hours after the first collapse, another building was clearly in almost the same shape due to fires and structural damage caused by the other two collapses, perhaps they just made a prediction, but it's ridiculous to say that the BBC, CNN, and Fox News all got together to blow up the WTC so they could reap the benefits of continuous news coverage.

This was not about 9/11. It shows the media is prescripted in most cases and therefore not a source because its controlled. Ignore the 9/11 trash. We also know WTC7 was "pulled" anyway. Larry Silverstein said it himself.

And I'm a CNN news chopper pushed the British into Iranian waters, kinda dragged them over there you know. It would be nice if you realized how ridiculous you sound.

Same shit, different day. I've had these discussions with your before matt. What i'm arguing was about the media and how you cannot trust a god damn word it says. The video is merely the example and proof.

I don't know anything about what happened to the buildings around the WTC, but I suspect they just had the wrong name at BBC... Big mistake, yes, but no prediction.

Too much of a coincidence to have both the BBC and CNN announced the collapse of building 7 early. Its ridiculous to make excuses for the corporate system news either. Its prescripted in most cases. Just watch it and really look into it. The reporters are reading from autocues, they are mindless and pretty much their facial expressions make me laugh.

Anyway, the point is that we shouldn't just accept everything that is said by the media and governments as the (complete) truth. Usually the reports are from the point of view of the western world.

True. Then again I wonder why we need television in the modern world when we all have the internet, it could be evolved into a much better system and it would totally destroy any controlled (aka "official") media.

Edited by Hybrid, 31 March 2007 - 10:27 PM.

[Blodo]

Come on though, Iran is run by a bunch of islamic facists.

It's interesting though, America today is ran by a bunch of christian fascists. Britain on the other hand is ran by a bunch of corporate fascists. It seems that most countries today are ran by some brand of fascist.

[Tom]

If you believe the people who run america are christian your wrong.

They are as christian as I am margret thatchers son. Christians do not worship the ego and power:








Is it a coincidence all the corporatists, generals, politicians, elites of society come from the same families, go to the same universities, become parts of the same secret societies and do the same hand signs.

Its all part of the same union, they want to control the west and dominate the middle east for its resources. Funny how all the nations DIRECTLY involved have been corporate or western states. The world is changing too rapidly for them to keep power so they have to consolidate it otherwise they lose their power. People are becoming more conscious, realising the world has huges problems and people are starting to realise their power. This is directly against capitalist/corporate ideals and against their interests. They want money over people, people are changing their minds and wanting people over money. Its only a natural part of human evolution, all it requires is for people to break away from the system, wipe it clean and start again. Its called evolving.

Why does no one nowadays research elite and occult culture? If you don't research the wider picture you cannot have an informed opinion. It will always be based on what you are told by others or the media. What other people want you to believe.

Edited by Hybrid, 31 March 2007 - 10:44 PM.

[Blodo]

Of course they are christian, they affiliate themselves with the church so they can get the support or "pat each other on the back". Much the same way as any other religious leader.

[Athgar]

Isn't it convenient the capture of the british sailors came just one day before the UN security council was to meet to decide whether to impose further sanctions on Iran?

[Tom]

Maybe so however the real christianity is meant to be about selflessness not egoism.

[Athgar]

"Maybe so however the real christianity is meant to be about selflessness not egoism."

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

So why don't we judge religions from their followers?

Edited by Athgar, 02 April 2007 - 05:27 PM.

[Tom]

Entirely fair point. There is a quote, "The devil does not know hes the devil, the devil thinks hes god." Basically those who thing they are doing good are infact doing bad.

The followers are no more than mindless drones who follow without question. If they questioned and understood their religion rather than just followed or say they KNEW they were right then it might be better. Spiritual beliefs should be personal. There should never be a huge organised religion, its just dangerous. Humans also don't know anything about the so called "afterlife" because theres no proof, only faith. So to suggest your right is ridiculous and to act on a belief that you have no idea if it is right is more ridiculous.

I don't believe people should judge the ideologies or religions, they should judge the induviduals and their actions in the name of these ideologies or philosophies.

[Solinx]

While religion was first an argument, it has now become the topic.

I would like to aks you to turn it back into an argument, or continue the discussion about religion here.

Thank you,
Solinx

[Tom]

Dude, revora politics has always evolved. It never remains the same topic. Someone will naturally turn it back to Iran with a simple comment anyway. Topics evolve. If they don;t evolve they die, just let it happen.

[Solinx]

Fair enough.
My reason for the redirect was that there are already quite a number of topics that evolve in a discussion whether or not there is a god, etc.

But you're right, eventually there will be a comment to link it back to the original topic.

Solinx

[Tom]

Humans are the worlds biggest killers. Just because they do it in the name of religion does not mean an ideology is responsible. How can an ideology be responsible? Its only humans that make their ideology conscious and exist. If no one believed in christianity it would not exist. Its humans that give ideologies and philosophies their power. Religion/God is not to blame. Humans and their ignorance are. Religion doesn't have arms or legs or guns or knives, the followers of that religion become its arms, legs and weapons, the followers are always human.

[duke_Qa]

hmm, interesting article here from the independent that claims that Iran captured the 15 troops because the Us tried in January to capture two intelligence officers from Iran on a official meeting in Iraq. the link doesnt seem to work for me but you might have more luck.

http://news.independ...icle2414760.ece

Edited by duke_Qa, 03 April 2007 - 01:59 PM.

[narboza22]

Humans are the worlds biggest killers. Just because they do it in the name of religion does not mean an ideology is responsible. How can an ideology be responsible? Its only humans that make their ideology conscious and exist. If no one believed in christianity it would not exist. Its humans that give ideologies and philosophies their power. Religion/God is not to blame. Humans and their ignorance are. Religion doesn't have arms or legs or guns or knives, the followers of that religion become its arms, legs and weapons, the followers are always human.

It is the religion's fault when the Pope tells a bunch of ignorant peasants to take up arms and reclaim the Holy Land in the name of God, or when Osama bin Laden tells an impressionable teenager that the US is the great Satan and his life would be best spent sacrificing himself to the Jihad. These people believe that they are acting for their God and their religion, regardless of what their leaders motives were. Had they not had such a blind faith in their religion, then they would not be out making holy war of killing infidels.

[Solinx]

Religion is an ideology, and as such, cannot act.

If the Pope tells, it is the Pope who does the acting.

From another point of view:
If I would tell you to kill the next person you come across in the name of Hybrid, and you'd actually do it, who do we blame? Hybrid?


You are right that some of those people truely believe they are acting as their god wishes. But is that because their belief really subscribes it, or is it because they choose (unconsciously) to interpret it as such?

There is also the issue of politics. The Pope may truly believe in the holy words of the Christian God, but his considerations aren't only based on religion.


@Duke_Qa: The link you posted works just fine for me. Interesting article indeed. It would be nice to have this from more sources tho, as this is such a stupid thing to do, I just can't belief it yet from just one source

If it's true, I wonder who gave the commands. The article author suspect local command, but Im just not sure how much room they have to consider doing such things.

Solinx

[duke_Qa]

i dunno how bad the independent is at finding good sources, but in my eyes it is one of the more serious newspapers.

and you can imagine that the US would have a nice little source of info if they got their hands on those Irani intelligence officers.

[Gaffel]

There is no way in hell that UK attack Iran. I dont think so, it is not like Iraq, in iraq, 100 people die every day, and they iraqi people are killing eachother, not americans, but in Iran, every person is a terrorist that hates them, and they all have guns. Thay also have a huge military, many many people get forced to the army, like my cusin, he went to Iran to merry a girl but got trapped in the army. I have been in Iran for 2 mounth. It is like swedish prison!

[Hostile]

i dunno how bad the independent is at finding good sources, but in my eyes it is one of the more serious newspapers.

and you can imagine that the US would have a nice little source of info if they got their hands on those Irani intelligence officers.

Irani, as in like Iraqi? Dude you just made up a new word. It's Iranian. I'm just playing so no offense meant. It just made me LOL. Back to the point though, IMO, Iraq has turned into a war by proxy not unlike Lebanon.

The real showdown is with Iran. The fact that the president of Iran swoops in and pardons the brits and will release them makes him appear like his wisdom, influence, and guidance has solved the issue. This guy is right up there with Chavez when it comes to situation manipulation.

Nothing like creating an international crisis, solving it, and then taking credit for solving it. This shit is better than any comic book I've ever read.

This Iranian president has no credibility IMO. He states the need to wipe Israel off the map, and now he "pardons" hostages. He's just a HELLUVA guy isn't he?