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#1 anonymous

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 09:44 PM

Humanity's struggle with its own mortality is what lies underneath.
In order to gain ground on understanding the truth one must shed the age old "truths" that have been passed down to oppress truths reality, which is freedom of soul and spirit whilst being a mortal.
Once it is realized that mortality is what makes us immortal, all the governing powers control over societies course will cease and become the freedom in which it is our individual duty and birth right to seek and fuse within our physical and ethereal self to gain full awareness of our being at any given moment in time and space...............

:p

#2 Ash

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 07:44 AM

Did you want a discussion, or was that a declaration by you?

#3 Calamity_Jones

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 07:54 AM

Are you planning a mass suicide Ananymous? The good ol' mug of lemonade laced with Cyanide...

"Fusing our physical and ethereal self" sounds rather a lot like "Let's drink bleach lads!"
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#4 Jeeves

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 11:08 AM

I'll drink to that!

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#5 Tom

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 01:23 PM

I entirely agree with anonymous. And ash hes creating a point for discussion about humanity's inability to see truth and instead believe illusions to be truth. Most of these illusions have been built around us by the powers that be in order to keep us in line. The more we follow these illusions without thinking for ourselves or finding our own morals the more controlled and corrupt we become by them.

#6 Cheshire Fox

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 05:33 PM

This is beginning to sound like a paranoid conspiracy theory... :thumbsupsmiley:
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#7 Ash

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 06:02 PM

He did nothing of the sort. He basically told us everything we ever knew is a lie. That somehow our own senses are deceiving us.

While I do agree that our own, individual truth is our perception and our perspective, I do believe that there are a number of universal truths. Quite a large number. This both includes truths common to all of us and truths that we call 'facts'. The world is round. It orbits the sun. Facts. We are human. Common to all of us.

What I think is nonsensical is that accepting that everything, including these common truths and facts, is a lie, will somehow:
a) Magically topple all government, which will somehow:
b) Lead to global nirvana.

Here's one for you.

Try telling me that "I need to breathe to stay alive" is a lie. Or "I need to eat to stay alive" or "I need to drink to stay alive." In fact, try telling yourself that.

They're truths. They're facts. If they're false, then prove it! :thumbsupsmiley:

#8 anonymous

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 10:25 PM

Once it is realized that mortality is what makes us immortal.

You must eat, breath and drink to stay alive.
Physically!
With out mortality how can one fathom Im-Mortality?
My post was quite simple I thought.....

Those who seek shall find
The sands of time
Eb and flow within ones mind...


:D

#9 Ash

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 11:25 PM

...What?

Talk sense. Seriously.

Perhaps you should seek the truth of why it is every time you post I lose my patience with you.

Edited by Paradox, 04 April 2007 - 11:26 PM.


#10 anonymous

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 02:04 AM

I suppose.......... if I answered your last post with one word Comrade you would lose your patience even more... That word could have been Dichotomy.............. :D

How can one know LIFE without DEATH.

If there was no death you would be immortal, everlasting..etc
What would life be?
What understanding could one have of existence?
What could one learn if there were no Dichotomy?
That is the superficial short version of that side of the coin.......

Imagine infinite life trapped within a physical form......... Dichotomy?
How much can an immortal learn by understanding and fusing, transcending, merging or whatever you'd like to call it, this Dichotomy?
Life would become so much more wouldn't you think?
By the way when i speak of LIFE I am not speaking of lifestyle or any matirial aspect of your existence I speak of your actual LIFE not what society has told you it is or should be!

If you die and there were no Dichotomy within LIFE... would you not be dead while believing the illusion that is your " LIFE ". Assuming you live to be 70 in the realm of infinity you may as well have never existed... If you don't understand the TRUE meaning of LIFE you can not see the truth of death.

People understand finite things such as death much easier than the infinite variety, its human nature.
Death is a closed ended solution....makes a nice little book end....easy concept for everyone to grasp and fear......

On the other hand LIFE is an open ended solution even through physical death.... a little more complex of a solution...but a lot more freedom from control and fear....in that one.

The only question I really have for any one is:
Once your Life (soul, energy..etc) is realized does physical death erase ones knowledge, understanding, thoughts, emotions etc. of an infinite existence as one was alive and lived for Life as opposed to death.
Once LIFE is known (which I all hope we have LMAO) does death outweigh or transcend the actuality and tangibility of prior existence? How can one exist and then suddenly die and have physical death take hold forever? Death is not where we come from, we come from life! It is ALL WE HAVE AND WILL EVER KNOW!
WTF do you people think you can learn death? THIS IS THE ILLUSION OF LIFE!
Mortality and Immortality are the same in this LIFE!
DEATH IS NON EXISTENCE by the way.. Try and deny that one... LOL

Hope this puts some of you in a quandry! :grin:

#11 Ash

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 02:48 PM

How can one know LIFE without DEATH.

If there was no death you would be immortal, everlasting..etc
What would life be?
What understanding could one have of existence?
What could one learn if there were no Dichotomy?
That is the superficial short version of that side of the coin.......

I am well aware of dichotomy, its relevance, etc. What relevance it has to do with anything else you've posted so far is what perplexes me. It has none. Nonetheless, I shall humour you.

The understanding one would have would be exactly the same as we have now, except there wouldn't be any concept of what happens after we died. The change would really not be that drastic. Sure, religion as we know it would be completely, totally and utterly fucked, but that'd be about it.

Imagine infinite life trapped within a physical form......... Dichotomy?

That's not a dichotomy. That's "hey guys, there's plenty more time to get laid and drink buckets!" :p

How much can an immortal learn by understanding and fusing, transcending, merging or whatever you'd like to call it, this Dichotomy?

It ISN'T a dichotomy if there is only one state of being.

Life would become so much more wouldn't you think?

Only in that we'd have more time in which to do the same things. Eventually, we'd all get bored and just get laid randomly with everyone we went past. Sure, tech might advance that bit faster, but, really, life wouldn't be all that different. We'd just do stuff we wouldn't normally do knowing we couldn't die.

By the way when i speak of LIFE I am not speaking of lifestyle or any matirial aspect of your existence I speak of your actual LIFE not what society has told you it is or should be!

The following things would probably change:
- People would get laid more.
- People would do outlandish things more.
- People would do more learning, research, etc, knowing that sitting on their laurels would/has eventually bored them witless.
- People would get bored more, as they'd spend more time resting on their laurels in spite of point #3.

If you die and there were no Dichotomy within LIFE... would you not be dead while believing the illusion that is your " LIFE ".


No. If you're dead, that's it. You're dead. Trust me, dude, you need to rephrase your arguments. If the life/death dichotomy did not exist and you were dead, you would never have been alive. Therefore you were never born and could never have existed to think this over.

Assuming you live to be 70 in the realm of infinity you may as well have never existed... If you don't understand the TRUE meaning of LIFE you can not see the truth of death.

Assuming there was no death, that does not mean one cannot do those seven things that are fundamental to all living things. Therefore, life in itself would not change in the least. It just means we have a lot more time alive.

People understand finite things such as death much easier than the infinite variety, its human nature.
Death is a closed ended solution....makes a nice little book end....easy concept for everyone to grasp and fear......

I don't fear death. I don't actually care about death all that much. It is really not that difficult to understand the differences that would result from immortality. Sure, the earth'd be a bit more populated but in truth, that wouldn't matter because if we all cannot die we just simply wouldn't bother to eat.

On the other hand LIFE is an open ended solution even through physical death.... a little more complex of a solution...but a lot more freedom from control and fear....in that one.

Not really. That's complete bollocks, that is.

The only question I really have for any one is:
Once your Life (soul, energy..etc) is realized does physical death erase ones knowledge, understanding, thoughts, emotions etc. of an infinite existence as one was alive and lived for Life as opposed to death.
Once LIFE is known (which I all hope we have LMAO) does death outweigh or transcend the actuality and tangibility of prior existence?

Rephrase this question. It's too ambiguous. However, my answer based on what I think you said is that once you're dead, you're dead. So yes, death erases everything about you that ever was.

How can one exist and then suddenly die and have physical death take hold forever? Death is not where we come from, we come from life!

Cessation of existence is really not something I'm afraid of.

It is ALL WE HAVE AND WILL EVER KNOW!

But that does not mean that it is all there is. All I will ever know of you is that you post impossibly ambiguous and irrelevant posts in topics. That cannot be all there is to you. I assume you have parents, possibly a GF as long as you didn't bring all this up to her, possibly a BF if you're that way inclined and you didn't bring this up to him. I imagine there is more to your existence than pissing me off, but hey :xd:

WTF do you people think you can learn death? THIS IS THE ILLUSION OF LIFE!

Do not profess that you are any better than us. "You people" implies that you have somehow learned about this. You know no more than I about the subject.

Mortality and Immortality are the same in this LIFE!

Not really.

DEATH IS NON EXISTENCE by the way.. Try and deny that one... LOL

Finally, something we agree on.

Hope this puts some of you in a quandry! ;)

Only in terms of your atrocious grammar and your sweeping ambiguity.


Congratulations Anonymous. Good to see you passed Phylosophy 101. Never thought you had it in you but good on you. :p

Maybe now you have enough credits to go into mime school :p


LOLZ


Nonetheless, Anony, you clearly have never once bothered to dignify me with my requests for you to write your posts more clearly rather than going off on random evasive tangents. You've not deigned to delve deeper into ANY your own "theories" or develop them for those who can't understand your impossibly garbled grammatical constructions. While completely off-topic from your first post, I can actually see the buds of a possible sound post from you. If you had only constructed your arguments in a less hurried fashion that more clearly explained what it was you were trying to say, I may possibly begin to entertain you with less of a condescending attitude. Rule o' thumb: If you use your words and explain or at least organise your sentences into some sort of coherent and clarified fashion (read: in English), I wouldn't get hacked off with you. Writing in an impenetrable fashion might have made you look like a learned man in the 17-1800's, but now it just makes you look like a wanker. ;)

Edited by Paradox, 06 April 2007 - 02:53 PM.


#12 OmegaBolt

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 04:32 PM

All I see life as is a chance, the first of many, to somehow grasp the universe in such a way you become the very thing that created it!

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#13 anonymous

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 10:13 PM

Nice omega. :p

#14 anonymous

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 11:00 PM

Comrade or Paradox or whatever you think of your self as.... LOL

You have to be joking with your disagreement of LIFE being the only thing you have ever known physically and tangibly!

YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT DEATH NOR SHALL YOU EVER! Try and deny this point! Ambiguous? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT! How can you know anything about death, no one has come back from death and said they were still dead, they have only come back from death and said they were still ALIVE!

I will never be part of yours or anyone else's delusions of death. If you choose to beleive in non-exisitence that is your Choice. I am not better than anyone else, i am just a lot less likley to be misled.

Life is all you or anyone of us knows and will ever know! No matter how you slice it! If there ever was an argument or disagreement founded on absolutely no proof it is what You People claim to know of DEATH!!!
DENY THIS! Once your dead your dead thats it end of story this is the wonderful insight you have into LIFE!

Dude spare me your fatalistic "understanding" of LIFE as you live! Try living, not dying, you may find it a great deal harder to shit on EXISTENCE when you see all that you are at this moment in space and time.

You can deny life while you live all you want.......it will not change the fact that death can never be understood on a physical level or any other plane of existence until it happens!
At that exact moment in space and time, all will be revealed!!

I for one choose to live with what i know to be true not what i am told is true!
Life is your truth NOW, RIGHT NOW!
What would I be if I chose to deny LIFE for death?

I will go out knowing what i know not what someone told me i should know!
I know LIFE not DEATH there is no denying what we all know RIGHT NOW which is life not death.
Maybe its what you know when its time for you to go.......that defines what your LIFE was, is and ever will be!

Edited by anonymous, 06 April 2007 - 11:03 PM.


#15 Ash

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 09:12 AM

You have to be joking with your disagreement of LIFE being the only thing you have ever known physically and tangibly!

When did I EVER disagree with you on that point? My disagreement was with your claiming that you DID know anything about it. Before you attempt to deride me, READ MY BLOODY POSTS.

I will never be part of yours or anyone else's delusions of death. If you choose to beleive in non-exisitence that is your Choice. I am not better than anyone else, i am just a lot less likley to be misled.

There's that patronising again? What gives you ANY right or license to decide that you are less likely to be misled? My views on life, death, the universe and everything are my own, and that they happen to coincide with those of science is a coincidence. Alternately, they're what I've researched and I reckon is a sensible answer.

Life is all you or anyone of us knows and will ever know! No matter how you slice it! If there ever was an argument or disagreement founded on absolutely no proof it is what You People claim to know of DEATH!!!
DENY THIS! Once your dead your dead thats it end of story this is the wonderful insight you have into LIFE!

I HAVE NEVER ARGUED TO THE CONTRARY! Why the hell are you bollocking off at me for stuff I ain't never said?

Although I don't see how saying something about death has anything to do with insight about life. My point was in response to yours about 'being dead believing in the illusion of life', or whatever the hell you said. It's like, it blatantly wasn't an illusion if you lived it.

Dude spare me your fatalistic "understanding" of LIFE as you live!

Excuse me? I have not said anything fatalistic beyond, "one day I will die.

Try living, not dying,

I die every time I read one of your posts which are as baseless and ambiguous as any 'theory' you'll find from a bible-thumper, which are as evasive as Houdini and who post irrelevance in topics claiming them to be connected. Your arguments are going nowhere.

you may find it a great deal harder to shit on EXISTENCE when you see all that you are at this moment in space and time.

When did I ever shit on existence?

You can deny life while you live all you want.......

1) WHEN THE HELL DID I EVER DENY LIFE?!
2) STOP USING FOUR THOUSAND DOTS!

it will not change the fact that death can never be understood on a physical level or any other plane of existence until it happens!
At that exact moment in space and time, all will be revealed!!

Well, no shit, sherlock. This is, like, you trying to be mysterious by saying the same things as anyone's ever said. However, we may choose to contemplate what happens after death as we see fit. Do not attempt to profess you are right and we are wrong.

I for one choose to live with what i know to be true not what i am told is true!

Ah, but were you not saying earlier all truth is an illusion? Other than the fact that we are all alive now, we will all die one day, we need to eat, shit, sleep and drink water now and then, and we live on Planet Earth, you are basically stating that you know absolutely nothing.

You will basically deny everything any scientist has ever said, shown and proven because you would be 'told' it is true. Sorry if that seems outlandishly retarded to me.

Life is your truth NOW, RIGHT NOW!

GET TO THE POINT.

What would I be if I chose to deny LIFE for death?

An emo.

NOW GET TO THE POINT.

I will go out knowing what i know not what someone told me i should know!

So now you're saying I've been indoctrinated. Nope. Wrongo. And you're also saying you dismiss every little thing that has ever been told to you about how the world works. Tell me, do you believe the Sun orbits the Earth?

I know LIFE

Do NOT profess to know things you do not. Or else you will prove to everyone you know NOTHING.

Maybe its what you know when its time for you to go.......that defines what your LIFE was, is and ever will be!

And maybe you're just a font of irrelevant phrases, praying to the Gods you don't believe in that one day, just once, you might say something pertinent and possibly relevant.

I would pray with you that one day you might, too. But I don't believe in them either.

Edited by Paradox, 07 April 2007 - 09:15 AM.


#16 anonymous

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 02:10 AM

Paradox I said I know Life.

Here is your response to me :
Do NOT profess to know things you do not. Or else you will prove to everyone you know NOTHING.

LMAO!

Ok, according to you I don't even know life. I really can't stop laughing. :p

Dude, open your eyes and your mind for a change! You did not respond to anything I said.
You have no intelligent argument for what I have said.
My last post is so clear and to the point that I 100% do not believe, for one second, that your so stupid as to have no understanding of what I said.

You simply have no rebuttal. All you do when you respond to my posts is take it as a personal attack on your beliefs. RELAX.................... Its okay, some people may have a point of view that completely goes against any coherent thought you have ever had about the truth of life.

We agree to disagree. You dismiss whatever I say because you have never heard this point of view before.
We get defensive when we fear or don't understand things. Human nature man.
When have i ever said you should convert to my thoughts on life and death? Answer: Never.
These are simply my understandings. By the way I believe in science and wouldnt you know quantam physics as well. Has science discovered everything yet No. Science is ever changing. It is a learning process, they are no closer to discovering the secrets of life than you or me. Ask any gifted scientist what they know and they will tell you they are humbled by the complexity of life. When they think they've learned something it can change. In the grand scheme of things the scientific communities understanding at this point in time can be at a kindergarden level for all we know who is to say I am wrong!

So chill out man, relax, you can still live to die and thats that, nothing more nothing less. I won't take that philosphy from you. You can freakin keep it and cherish it for the rest of your short life. :)

#17 Ash

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 10:07 AM

Okay. I'm going to put this in moron, so even you can understand it. I'll even put it in big nice colourful letters just to hammer the point home.

DO NOT PATRONISE ME.

You have not answered any of my points. I answered yours. You were putting words into my mouth and I told you not to.

Paradox I said I know Life.

Here is your response to me :
Do NOT profess to know things you do not. Or else you will prove to everyone you know NOTHING.

LMAO!

Ok, according to you I don't even know life. I really can't stop laughing. :p

You DON'T 'know' life. You know your own existence which, like every single individual on this planet, we call our own 'life'. You do not know life itself. You know what you see and what you taste and what you smell and what you touch (and I don't WANNA know what you touch!) and what you hear, and you know what you think and what you perceive. Nothing more. You have every bit as much chance of being wrong as anyone else on this planet. Do not profess to be something more than you are.

Dude, open your eyes and your mind for a change! You did not respond to anything I said.

Yes I did. Perhaps you should read my posts for a fucking change. And perhaps if you said something coherent, I might have more of a chance of responding to it.

You have no intelligent argument for what I have said.

That is better than you, who has not made an intelligent argument at all. :D

My last post is so clear and to the point that I 100% do not believe, for one second, that your so stupid as to have no understanding of what I said.

No it wasn't. Revise your grammatical constructions. They make your posts significantly more impenetrable than they need to be. I have to say, this post, other than the patronising (which, other than lying, is about the #1 thing you can do to anger me), this post probably was the most understandable of yours.

You simply have no rebuttal.

Because you have never posted a direct argument or an actual point you wished to get across.

All you do when you respond to my posts is take it as a personal attack on your beliefs.

No I don't. I take it as a poorly constructed argument (from a grammatical point of view, and sometimes from an actual soundness-of-theory point of view) which seems to be overly prophetic and under-explained. You claim to be something you are not, and it is that I object to, not your conflict with my beliefs. How can I even know whether your beliefs conflict with mine when I only understand part of what you say? If I understood every phrase (because, either, you actually fuckin' bother to explain it or by revising it grammatically and order your posts to be more coherent in terms of your argument rather than throwing ideas higgledy-piggledy everywhere), I would be significantly more inclined to engage with you more civilly.

Its okay, some people may have a point of view that completely goes against any coherent thought you have ever had about the truth of life.

And that is, of course, their (and your) prerogative. However, you speak again of truth when you basically said earlier that there was no such thing!

The truth of life: You're born. You will die. The bit in between is yours to play with.

Simple. See? See how easy that is to understand? Now make a point like that yourself, please, be it in support or against I don't care, but if you can say it in a less jargonistic/bullshit-heavy/higgledy-piggledy-arranged way, then my comprehension of you will rocket. Notice I never have any trouble understanding what anyone else says.

You dismiss whatever I say because you have never heard this point of view before.

No, I dismiss whatever you say because you don't make it clear. Don't presume to know anything about me, what I think or why I do whatever it is I do. Nor should you pretend to be some sort of prophet.

We get defensive when we fear or don't understand things. Human nature man.

There you go again being a prophet. Get off your fucking high horse. Even Plato made his philosophies so people could understand what he actually said. Regardless of whether they agreed with him, they knew what his argument was.

When have i ever said you should convert to my thoughts on life and death? Answer: Never.

When have I ever accused you of such things? I accuse you of pretending to know things that you do not.

These are simply my understandings. By the way I believe in science and wouldnt you know quantam physics as well. Has science discovered everything yet No. Science is ever changing. It is a learning process, they are no closer to discovering the secrets of life than you or me. Ask any gifted scientist what they know and they will tell you they are humbled by the complexity of life. When they think they've learned something it can change. In the grand scheme of things the scientific communities understanding at this point in time can be at a kindergarden level for all we know who is to say I am wrong!

On this, I agree with you.

So chill out man, relax, you can still live to die and thats that, nothing more nothing less. I won't take that philosphy from you. You can freakin keep it and cherish it for the rest of your short life. :)

WTF? I don't live to die. I live knowing I will die one day. I don't look forward to that day, necessarily, but I know it's coming and that it's inevitable, so what's the point in denying that? My philosophy is to make the best I can with the time I have. I don't understand how that means I'm living to die...

Are you somehow professing you've found the elixir of eternal life? o_0 If you are saying that, then I'm just going to go right ahead and laugh you off this forum.

Edited by Paradox, 08 April 2007 - 10:08 AM.


#18 Blodo

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 10:50 AM

Anonymous: The only thing that the lack of fear of death would bring would be the decline of christianity and islam. That's about it. While that is a good thing, I fail to see how it would bring "nirvana" to the rest. Way to explain it.

And "understanding life and death"? What's to understand? You'll be around for the next 70 or so years and then you'll be dead. Simple as that. It's your own fear of death that wants you to believe that you are special and that you will live after death, which is quite frankly a load of bull. While it is cynical, it is also the truth - when you die, you won't care about anything because you won't be around anymore. And neither will your "soul energies".

This is the very same sentiment that partly fuels religion. Because priests tell people the bullshit that there is life after death.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#19 OmegaBolt

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 11:22 AM

Surely the whole life after death thing is also because it isn't possible to imagine 'nothing'. When people say nothing they think of black, empty space but for there to be black and empty space there has to be something.

When your dead (if there isn't anything afterwards) then you can't think anything. But we can't imagine not thinking because for that to happen we need to think.

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#20 GodSun666

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Posted 08 April 2007 - 01:26 PM

Hello,
dear people..

want to say a few things:

1. why wasting ur o so valuable time here?
2. go get a life
3. get a girl
4. stop wasting time and go LIVE!! like kane:P
5. stop paronising paradox any..
6. just go outside grab a girl ETC.. go live
7. why u still here?
8. stop wasting time and go make something of youre life?
9. didnt you have something to finish(hint hint)
10. why do you people waste time makeing 100000 sentences long posts?? while with that time you could also played a few games.. fucked your GF/Bf(for the girls here:P)..
11. so you know what i mean??



so u waste time while u people say go live... but you still waste ur own time?? while saying to toher people they shouldnt:P?? lol
для матери Россия! Советский Союз победит! Америка может облизывать мои яйца
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