Jump to content


Photo

Truth


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#21 Gamemate

Gamemate

    The former weird guy

  • Hosted
  • 1,443 posts
  • Location:Something with S
  • Projects:Drinking coffee
  •  Floating about

Posted 08 April 2007 - 01:35 PM

We enjoy wasting our lifes with pointless posts and dramatic scenes, we are weird that way but we have a blast as well so who cares :p
If people were more constructive with their comments, then this place would be more enjoyable
Posted Image
Posted Image

#22 Jeeves

Jeeves

    I write the interwebz

  • Members
  • 4,156 posts
  •  Friendly neighborhood standards Nazi

Posted 08 April 2007 - 02:14 PM

why wasting ur o so valuable time here?

Wouldn't be doing it if I didn't like doing it, and imo, something that causes pleasure to someone without discomfort to another is worth doing, thus this is not me wasting my time. Nor is helping a mother move her pram on or off a bus. Nor drinking a cup of tea.
If you are of the opinion you would be better off doing something else, then by all means do something else, just as I would :p
As for all the meaning of life, death, universe and crap, my philosophy is simple; help others. If you can make someone elses day better, in any little way, without causing yourself displeasure, go out of the way to do it. I don't think I'm going to find the meaning of life, so I'm not going to sit around praying or hanging about under Bodhi trees or ripping beating hearts, so I won't. But perhaps someone will find the meaning of like, and if they do, I'm sure they'd be more likely to share it with someone who'd help them, rather than condemn or ignore. I care not for peoples beliefs, rather whether they're arseholes or not. And if the great enlightenment differs on this, its not one I'd want to know. As for death; if I can enjoy my life, I can be patient enough to cross that bridge when I come to it. I'll find out sooner or later, and knowing if I'm going to be eaten by giant worms or eat giant pies won't effect my life. Knowing that I've lived a life worth leading, that will.

World Domination Status: 2.7%


#23 anonymous

anonymous
  • Members
  • 177 posts

Posted 08 April 2007 - 03:19 PM

Thats the point Jeeves. Live your life with no worries about death. When it comes it comes. What happens at that point we shall all see. I am not looking for nirvana, i am living with a total disregard of my own death.
I don't care if and when I die. As long as I live my life without fear of something that has never been proven, namely what happens after death. I know what i know and what I have seen. Death has never shown itself to me nor will it ever. Period end of story. If you die and thats it I will never know. All I will ever know is LIFE. It is so simple, even if I'm wrong about an afterlife I am still right, It is how I live. If i die and that is it NO One can ever tell me or know I was wrong! Such is the beauty of life. To live this way is to truly and unconditionally love! Thats what living for life affords you. Death is a condition and restriction put on life, something that goes against every fiber of my being. I live free of the tyranny of death. Death has no hold on me nor will it ever. It is a weakness that has no place in my life. It is a concept that is abhorent and controlling to me. It stops people from truly living. I am not a prophet nor have I ever propheced to be i am just a guy that doesn't play or feed into bullshit games about the true wonder that has been given to us, which is life. That is the basic premise of where i come from.

Paradox...... Chill out dude your gonna have a heart attack at this rate... LOL

#24 Ash

Ash

    Foxtrot Oscar.

  • Undead
  • 15,526 posts
  • Location:England
  • Projects:Robot Storm
  •  Keep calm and carry on.

Posted 08 April 2007 - 04:09 PM

No I am not. I am perfectly unstressed. And thankyou for making sense this time.

And except for the point you blatantly ignored about knowing your OWN life but not life as a distinct whole, yes, you're probably right on that post, even though it has absolutely no relevance to the first post you made...

You are still a highly presumptuous individual, though - I am not worried about death, I don't care that I am going to die. The point is that I am aware that I am one day going to.

To live this way is to truly and unconditionally love!

What? No no, I'm sorry, but WHAT? How? What the hell does love have to do with your denial that one day you will die?

Thats what living for life affords you.

And oh for Freudian defence mechanisms.

Death is a condition and restriction put on life, something that goes against every fiber of my being. I live free of the tyranny of death. Death has no hold on me nor will it ever. It is a weakness that has no place in my life. It is a concept that is abhorent and controlling to me. It stops people from truly living.


Long story short, you claim or believe you will never die. You are seriously in denial about this. Knowing we are going to die has no effect on our lives as we know them. It should, though - we should be out living them to their fullest.

I am not a prophet nor have I ever propheced to be i am just a guy that doesn't play or feed into bullshit games about the true wonder that has been given to us, which is life. That is the basic premise of where i come from.

What bullshit game have I ever played with you?

#25 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 08 April 2007 - 07:01 PM

Anonymous' last post is generally the way i see things too if it comes to an "argument" about it.

To live this way is to truly and unconditionally love!

What? No no, I'm sorry, but WHAT? How? What the hell does love have to do with your denial that one day you will die?

Its nothing to do with denial, its the fact that when you lose all fear you have pure love. Love and fear are generally seen as opposites. Without one you become the other. If you are forced into a corner you will react out of fear (fight and flight), mostly likely will not consider your actions until you feel out of danger. Simple example. If forced into a corner by someone who wants to stab you, you most likely would defend yourself, but if you see the truth that the person attacking you is properly a mentally deranged induvidual but still a human being that comes from love. Love in the sense if you lose fear of the situation and see the truth you can understand more.

All fear comes from the fear of death. Lose the fear of death you lose all fear. Its a human emotion, it comes from human nature. But if you believe you are only human, thats all you will ever be. If you believe you are beyond human (in the sense that you are a spiritual being living out a human experience) then the fear of death should pass. Fear generally comes from the unknown. Death is a human unknown, thats why the roots of human fear are based from it. Its an animalistic function. Darwinist if you must say so, survival of the fittest. To be honest you could philosophise that ego is what we fear losing. When our ego is in control (the earthly/human side of us) then we fear, when our spirit is in control then we realise earthly desires are from the ego. Its not ridiculous, its merely logic if you understand the spiritual side of our selves.

Its all down to belief, everyone believes what they wish to believe. No one knows what is after death until they get there. No one can prove anything. And as Anonymous said, if there is nothing after death then I won't exist to even care i was wrong, so it doesn't matter. This could be one illusion that I don't have a problem believing in.

All my beliefs have resulted from years of research and questioning ash. 4 years ago i was strictly atheist (even though i was in a catholic school) and hated anyone who even believed there was a possibility of a life after death. Funny how things change from questioning your existence and being curious about it.

Edited by Hybrid, 08 April 2007 - 07:07 PM.


#26 Blodo

Blodo

    The one who disagrees

  • Project Team
  • 3,002 posts
  • Location:Eastern Europe
  • Projects:siteMeister, Mental Omega
  •  The wise guy

Posted 08 April 2007 - 10:04 PM

The question arises: what if there was life after death, wouldn't people who are living in that other world invented a way to contact our world by now? :shiftee:

To be honest I still believe that when we die, there is nothing. We just vanish. It might be depressing, but it's just how it is. No use fooling yourselves.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#27 Jeeves

Jeeves

    I write the interwebz

  • Members
  • 4,156 posts
  •  Friendly neighborhood standards Nazi

Posted 09 April 2007 - 02:31 AM

Good point, if I moved on and left people I loved behind, I'd want to contact them...

World Domination Status: 2.7%


#28 Solinx

Solinx

    .

  • Undead
  • 3,100 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Projects:Real Life
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Retired Leader / Manager

Posted 09 April 2007 - 10:32 AM

Question arises: Would these dead people be more succesful contacting the living as the living who are trying to contact the dead? :shiftee:

There would be more them, I'll give you that ;)

Solinx
Posted Image

"An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr


#29 Jeeves

Jeeves

    I write the interwebz

  • Members
  • 4,156 posts
  •  Friendly neighborhood standards Nazi

Posted 09 April 2007 - 12:10 PM

Wouldn't be paradise if their mail service didn't deliver :shiftee: Does that mean theres only hell and Aussie Post? ;)

World Domination Status: 2.7%


#30 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 10 April 2007 - 11:29 AM

Good point, if I moved on and left people I loved behind, I'd want to contact them...

But thats just your ego talking. If there is life after death, your ego dies, meaning the "you" dies and your spirit moves on. Technically your spirit only lives here to learn spiritual lessons. Presumably if there is an afterlife then you've lived infinite lifetimes before and left people behind. Each time you take a new personality, a new person and new ego. Who knows, you could even have been a dog pissing up trees once :rolleyes: Of course its purely speculation but if there is an afterlife it means that infinity exists and we are all part of that infinity. Humans cannot visualise infinity because we live in a finite world. Everything that has a beginning has an end, but infinity has always been there, will always be there and can never end.

People say if "God" exists then what made God. Just because we see a finite universe it doesn't mean that everything is finite. Its just the life we are living now. If "God" exists then its existed forever. Human perspectives just cannot understand the nature of infinity.

#31 Ash

Ash

    Foxtrot Oscar.

  • Undead
  • 15,526 posts
  • Location:England
  • Projects:Robot Storm
  •  Keep calm and carry on.

Posted 11 April 2007 - 09:50 AM

What, then, is the point in the spirit bothering to take a physical form?

We know infinity exists. Just count through numbers. There's always a number one bigger.

But as for that, no, it doesn't prove infinity exists.

Lives are finite.
Your time spent in afterlife is finite as you inevitably must come back. :grin: Infinite things are forever continuous. They do not stop-start-stop-start.

And essentially, there can only be so much that your spirit can learn, if indeed it has anything it needs to learn. So, what is the eventual goal?

#32 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 12 April 2007 - 12:47 AM

Yes, if its for balance reasons then multiverses exist. There is a universe which is opposite to this one.

And ash, if a spirit exists then its not "stop and start" all that changes is your perceptions. You are still infinitely conscious.

#33 Jeeves

Jeeves

    I write the interwebz

  • Members
  • 4,156 posts
  •  Friendly neighborhood standards Nazi

Posted 12 April 2007 - 12:56 AM

So theres nothing to achieve and nothing to loose. I'd rather think there was a meaning of life rather than all life being meaningless.

World Domination Status: 2.7%


#34 Ash

Ash

    Foxtrot Oscar.

  • Undead
  • 15,526 posts
  • Location:England
  • Projects:Robot Storm
  •  Keep calm and carry on.

Posted 12 April 2007 - 10:36 AM

I'm with Jeeves to a degree, although our opinion on life's purpose would probably differ.

And Caspa, what exactly would we be balancing against? Though I did like your love/marriage and courage/france cracks.

#35 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 12 April 2007 - 07:51 PM

So theres nothing to achieve and nothing to loose. I'd rather think there was a meaning of life rather than all life being meaningless.

Could be a funny twist. You could still be that insignificant (as atheists say you are, just not in the same way). There could be no purpose. But as i sort of have faith in this infinity theory i prefer to believe its all about evolution. Technically you could be here to evolve "spiritually" in a sense from the lessons you learn in life.

And Caspa, what exactly would we be balancing against?

Lets just take the body for example. If its out of balance it gets ill. If nature is out of balance (global warming/pole shifts) it goes crazy (storms, hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes etc.) In the bigger picture (if it exists as quantum theory sort of allows us to believe) there must be a parrellel universe that is the exact opposite of this one, whatever that means, in order to balance out, lol. Basically its could be like the matrix with equations balancing out opposing equations. :lol: Problem with philosophy is that it is exactly that, theory and ideals. Theres no idea if it works or exists until its tried of discovered.

#36 Blodo

Blodo

    The one who disagrees

  • Project Team
  • 3,002 posts
  • Location:Eastern Europe
  • Projects:siteMeister, Mental Omega
  •  The wise guy

Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:59 PM

It's not balance, it's not a reason. It's an accident. Thanks to a comet that wiped out the reptiles some time ago we mammals have gotten to the top of the food chain. What would happen if the comet didn't hit? There would be no modern world as we see it, that's what. No "God" had planned this, and neither did "nature". It's not an action of a sentient being/element because to imply that this was planned would be to imply that something sentient thought it all up. It doesn't work that way though.

The problem we all have is that when we don't have sufficient knowledge to comprehend things, we tend to develop wild theories about it that appeal to our view of the world. Life is just a chemical process, it's not a unfathomable phenomenon.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


#37 MSpencer

MSpencer

    Think Tank... Legend?

  • Hosted
  • 4,120 posts
  • Location:Montreal, QC
  • Projects:Admin @ Meaaov Gaming, university studies, ugh... research. GNP's Flagship of the Left.
  •  Angry, angry bastard.

Posted 12 April 2007 - 10:57 PM

And elaborating on this;
In viewing the structure of the atom, I cannot help but to be overcome with a sense that... everything in the universe is striving to be more "perfect." The elements, in electroattractive terms, are seemingly drawn towards the characteristics of the noble gases, inert substances which will not react unless you reach their unlikely and rather far off ionization energies. No, the elements, if they had a say in the matter in terms of their attraction towards certain states, would end up being noble gases.
Not only is life an accident, but all of the elements are accidents. And even beyond that, matter is an accident.
Posted Image
My Favorite Website.My UniversityAnd... Mein Kampf?
C. elegans for President

#38 Tom

Tom

    title available

  • Undead
  • 8,475 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Projects:Life
  •  Co-Founder of Revora

Posted 12 April 2007 - 11:08 PM

It's not balance, it's not a reason. It's an accident. Thanks to a comet that wiped out the reptiles some time ago we mammals have gotten to the top of the food chain. What would happen if the comet didn't hit? There would be no modern world as we see it, that's what. No "God" had planned this, and neither did "nature". It's not an action of a sentient being/element because to imply that this was planned would be to imply that something sentient thought it all up. It doesn't work that way though.

It was not planned, i've never said anything was planned. Its a physical world, but it doesn't mean there could never be the possibility of "higher existence" or infinite consciousness. We (humans) came into being by evolution, but it doesn't mean our consciousness is not part of a larger picture. I've never suggested any of this as truth as it would merely be retarded, its merely speculation and philosophical meaning can come from it. Personally i believe humanity requires a "spiritual" evolution. This doesn't mean believing in a ridiculous diety, it means finding morals that we take responsibility to sticking to them. Philosophy can also be a part of this "spiritual evolution." It basically means raising human consciousness to a collective level so people see the bigger picture, i.e. would result in a revolution and a new world. Idealistic and speculation again but its all linked to the bigger picture.

The problem we all have is that when we don't have sufficient knowledge to comprehend things, we tend to develop wild theories about it that appeal to our view of the world. Life is just a chemical process, it's not a unfathomable phenomenon.

Exactly, but life is a human body. Still does not mean there is not anything beyond this reality. I am not denying my physical existence, i know my body is merely a natural balance and full of chemical process that keeps me alive and physically conscious but its best not to close your mind about such things when there is no proof either. Theory and philosophy has only moved to higher understanding and research. No scientific discovery was found without a theory or research. Only time will tell. There is no limit to what humans can discover if we find our higher selves (in the sense of coming together on a collective and more conscious level) if we can break away from our systems that keep us from progressing (i.e. corporatism and elite capitalism.)

Do research on CERN and the string theory. CERN could possibly lead the way into next generation technology and quantum mechanics in the next 100 years.
This is basically the theory of multiverses: http://www.tenthdimension.com/ Tenth dimension reappearing as the first possibly shows the nature of infinity.
Funny the string theory also talks of dimensions. It is currently believed there is only 4 (3 for most people). Obviously 3D and the theory that the 4th dimension is time. The theory believes there could be as many as 10 or even 11 dimensions.

http://en.wikipedia....i/String_theory

I wouldn't deny any possibly of more beyond our perception yet because its possibly we are very very close to breaking this illusion and becoming more conscious of our existence. If multiverses do exist, it will change the way everyone will think about our existence. Either people will with we are more insignificant or we are more significant than it appears to be. Again its only a theory but only time can tell.

And elaborating on this;
In viewing the structure of the atom, I cannot help but to be overcome with a sense that... everything in the universe is striving to be more "perfect." The elements, in electroattractive terms, are seemingly drawn towards the characteristics of the noble gases, inert substances which will not react unless you reach their unlikely and rather far off ionization energies. No, the elements, if they had a say in the matter in terms of their attraction towards certain states, would end up being noble gases.
Not only is life an accident, but all of the elements are accidents. And even beyond that, matter is an accident.

I'm never going to deny the possibility of this spence, and being a scientist yourself you have come to your own conclusions, but what about such things as Zero Point energy: http://en.wikipedia....ro-point_energy

We know so little about it but it could be a link to something more. There is much talk within quantum theory about it. I know what your going to say "quantum theory is just theory" or your gunna talk some scientific stuff that i do not understand and is beyond my comprehension, but what is your opinion on quantum and the possibility of mutliverses or even more than this single universe.

Lets just speculate, i am not asking for science but just an answer to this question: If they do exist then are they also just an "accident" or is there a bigger picture to the theoretical "4th dimensional existence" (as in time which includes the infinite multiverse).




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users