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school shootings in the states again


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#21 Blodo

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 12:42 AM

This problem is like drugs, it can't be dealt with with a simple allow it/disallow it statement. It's much more complicated than that. Thing is it's not the guns that cause these mass murders in America, it's the underlying paranoia that resides in pretty much every modern American. These people often have five locks on their front doors and extensive alarm systems in their houses - and a gun or two of course. It's all supposedly for protection of course.

The underlying problem is that if you legalise it completely, you encourage people to buy. However if you disallow it, the black market is going to go wild. The solution as usual lies in between: have guns available for purchase, but instead of encouraging it by western culture and capitalist lies - inform people of what guns really are and what are the consequences of using guns. Same thing goes for drugs, really.

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#22 olli

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 10:19 AM

its happened becauae the gun laws are stupid in america. walk into a shop....and literally just buy a gun. im sorry...its a lethal wepaon. not ordinary citizens should be allowed to just buy them that easy. Some americans cant understand why it happens. if you tell them this they think that your offedning them, and the "oh its our right to bear arms" bullshit comes.
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#23 CodeCat

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 10:58 AM

I stay with my view that any government that allows its people to buy guns in a shop, but doesn't allow them to buy drugs, is a hypocritical and deranged one.
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#24 duke_Qa

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 12:11 PM

guns designed not to hunt needs very spesific papers to be had in this country, and you have no right to have those weapons anywhere but in a gun-safe at home where you have total control over it. if i don´t recall wrongly its also standard that you have to get a shooting license to be able to have rifles and the likes in houses, and special licenses for handguns and other more advanced ballistic firearms(military is a good way to get training with them but theres no chance in hell you would be able to use alot of those weapons privately without special permits and good reasons to have them. i think the best excuse is shooting competitions and the likes, but those competitions usually doesnt use AK´s and other automatic weapons).


you practically have to be a cop too be allowed to carry one or have it in your car. hell, cops arent even allowed to have pistols/shotguns on them unless they are in a bad situation, and even then the guns are usually locked into a safebox in the back of the car or at the station.

we´ve had like 3 cop killings since the war, and i can guarantee you that any criminal who kills a cop over here is doomed as it will be blown up in the media as if it was 9/11. there was a bank robbery two years back where a cop got killed. all people connected to the bank robbery got busted, which was like 9 doing the robbery and 5-8 indirectly helping out by renting out buildings for them and stuff like that.



naturally, the fact that we only have 5 million in this place makes it easier to control. but even if you multiply that with 60 to get US populations, its around 200 cops dead since the war. i think thats what gets lost every year over there...

Edited by duke_Qa, 19 April 2007 - 12:20 PM.

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#25 Cheshire Fox

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 03:05 PM

That's what we'd love to have in the US up here in the north! As far as I can tell, the south may as well be its own country. The political attitudes are completely different. Blodo, you are really going pretty far with the generalizing. There is not a single gun owned on my street, the street next to it, and so on for about 5 streets until you reach this Irish guy who has I'm pretty confident has mob connections. Yeah, we've got burglar alarms, but that's just a precaution. Rather have one and have a communist I've never met that lives half the world away think I'm paranoid than end up with a thief in my house and not know it.

You are absolutely wrong in your stereotypes of Americans. That's like me saying that everyone in Germany is actually anti - semetic and fascist.
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#26 Sûlherokhh

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 04:25 PM

The idea of guns being a consitutional right in the states is based on the fact that if a government becomes tyrannical then the population (or at least the resisting part of the population) have a means of defending themselves.
...
Personally at this time I think disarming the US population would be dangerous in the long term.


Is the american government really THAT dangerous! :mad2:

2 more points to consider
  • Strangely enough, government officials don't really have any intention of disarming the poplulation. There would be a good reason for disarmament. The people would be less afraid of being shot on the streets. But being part of the government incidentally has the advantage of being protected to the neck by bodyguards. They don't have to fear any of it. Maybe this protection should simply be removed to let them know the feeling.
  • The government and other officials in power receive SO MUCH money from the arms industry, they have a hard time saying no. Besides, if they don't take it, their rivals will. No who will win an election? All other reasons for NOT abolishing weapons are reason proclaimed to hide what the availability of weapons (and their sale - think big business) really is about.

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#27 Blodo

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 05:10 PM

That's what we'd love to have in the US up here in the north! As far as I can tell, the south may as well be its own country. The political attitudes are completely different. Blodo, you are really going pretty far with the generalizing. There is not a single gun owned on my street, the street next to it, and so on for about 5 streets until you reach this Irish guy who has I'm pretty confident has mob connections. Yeah, we've got burglar alarms, but that's just a precaution. Rather have one and have a communist I've never met that lives half the world away think I'm paranoid than end up with a thief in my house and not know it.

That is why I said "pretty much". That doesn't mean "all". If you live in a suburb, it's less so but it is increasingly visible in the counties and in the big cities apparently.

You are absolutely wrong in your stereotypes of Americans. That's like me saying that everyone in Germany is actually anti - semetic and fascist.

They aren't? :mad2:

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#28 Sûlherokhh

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 06:04 PM

The perspective is quite unique when you are an american and a german both at the same time (like myself). I always balk at using stereotypes. Never is anything just like i expect it to be 'cause there is always someone who surprises me when least i expect it.

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#29 Athgar

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Posted 20 April 2007 - 08:21 PM

George Bush Jr killed those students at Virginia Tech.

How?

Simple. He is the man who introduced massive illegal tax-cuts to the rich.

Who is the richest man in America?

Bill Gates.

Bill Gates is the owner of Microsoft.

Microsoft is the platform on which 99% of PC games are played.

Also Microsoft employees founded Valve which created Counter-strike. A Microsoft company, XBox Live, sells millions of copies of Counter-strike.

The growth in popularity of Counter-strike coincides exactly with Bush's term of office.

Cho Seung Hui was pathologically addicted to Counter-strike. Counter-strike desensitized him to violence taught him how to kill.

Counter-strike is a Mass Murder Simulator which turns normal people into monsters and George Bush is a terrorist worse than Bin Laden.
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#30 CodeCat

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 12:16 AM

:)
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#31 adummy

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 12:26 AM

Cho Seung Hui was pathologically addicted to Counter-strike. Counter-strike desensitized him to violence taught him how to kill.

i understand you are joking, but i hate when people say video games/movies cause violence. If they cause violence, the person playing shouldnt have been playing in the first place.
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#32 Allied General

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 12:39 AM

Actually making a comedy out of the man is probably better then blasting it on NBC and other news channel with his "videos" glory after death and he got it.

Guns suprisingly aren't the main issue here. Banning wouldn't really work because Canada and Switzerland allow gun ownage but shooting sprees are very rare occurences, one in UK, a few in Germany thats about it. Even with a gun ban there would be some form of resistance/riots or otherwise a increase in knife crime.

The laws and response in USA is very wierd. They can overreact in invading peoples privacy, patriot act etc but when a gunman is on campus, there is no massive alarm of evacuation procedure, just a simple email and carry on with lessons.

The guys issue was a lack of socialisation due to bullying. He retreated into the world of violence, sexual pervesion (taking knicker shots of girls) most likely influenced by nilhism culture (he did like death songs) and the extremely violent Korean film Old Boy (very disturbed but a very brillant film in many respects) Basically the guy was a attention seeking whore and the media took the bait :) and there will probably be some ignorant backlash against Koreans and violent films/games/music.

Basically some individuals overreact badly to outside negative influences e.g. suicide/killing sprees

Edited by Allied General, 21 April 2007 - 12:41 AM.

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#33 CodeCat

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 10:24 AM

lol, I just realised... it's almost as if the whole US is manic depressive! All happy, then they go down to the extreme, then back up...
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#34 Casen

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 12:40 AM

You guys need to know a few things.

The majority of gun owners in the US are responsible with them. I'd say atleast 90%. Note that everytime a school shooting happens, its never some 60 year old redneck whos always owned guns, its always some pissed off punk kid/kids with mental problems who acquire/steal/buy the guns three days before the shooting. What needs to be done is mental screenings for firearms, to prevent psychos from getting them.

Also...I guarantee you. I said that the majority of gun owners are responsible and safe, that is until...the government attempts to take their guns away. I guarantee you that the moment that happens, the VTech massacre will be nothing compared to the carnage that will envelop much of the south. My gun freak friend swears she'll kill numerous people before they take her guns away, most likely by prying it from her cold dead fingers...

I've never touched a real gun IRL, btw.

Edited by Kacen, 03 May 2007 - 12:42 AM.


#35 olli

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 08:53 PM

i do, at least 3 times a week or some times each day. i go shooting regualrly. but i shoot at bits of paper and that will do me, i dont need to shoot innocent people to get the satisfaction from firing a gun. i would how ever shoot some one in a war, who was firing at me.

i agree with you on the mental screening, but none the less there needs to be a lot tougher law enforcement on guns in the US, maybe more background history cheacks and medical checks etc. so they can see who wants one to shoot targets such as cans, paper or birds and who wants one to massacare innocent people.
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#36 Cheshire Fox

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 08:54 PM

You're right for the most part...however, Cho Seung Hui bought his glock months before the shooting. He bought ammo and automatic clips from several different locations. He knew what he was doing, this was planned.
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#37 Athgar

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 03:21 PM

Is it better to let every psycho have a gun, than let a small amount have them?
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#38 narboza22

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 03:26 PM

Is it better to let every psycho have a gun, than let a small amount have them?


Yes, everyone has the right to bear arms.
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#39 Athgar

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 05:25 PM

But why? What do you need guns for? People in other countries dont need guns to feel safe, yet you keep talking about your right to bear arms?
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#40 Cheshire Fox

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Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:07 PM

Not everybdoy needs guns, but some people want them and it's part of the constitution, upon which this country was founded, that if they want guns they can have their goddamn guns. They don't necessarily need them, and they most likely shouldn't have them. But, that's just the way it works, evidently.
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