73 replies to this topic

[MSpencer]

I never implied that people would never get caught…however the majority proceed unstopped by such restrictions. History has shown this and the futility of such unenforceable laws. Americans are not bashful about sodomy; apparently many enjoy it.

You said the laws are unenforceable. They are clearly enforceable because they've been overturned by appeals. Also, some of the benchmark domain and search and seizure cases have been about pornography and sodomy.
Clearly, the laws are enforceable to the same extent that drug laws are enforceable, people will still do it, but people are caught all the time.

First, Iran isn’t a theocracy; it is a constitutional theocracy.

Oh yeah, there's a difference. Especially when the Ayatollah can essentially just say something and it becomes law immediately. Remember, it's all democratic until you defy Sharia Law, then it's just a theocracy.
When a church runs the state, there is nothing such as a constitution. They have so much power that they will do what they want.

Second, if Iran is the kind of cold, monolithic theocratic society that you describe then how did these haircuts and other Western trends take root in the first place?

I never said Iran was completely closeminded. Western haircuts ended up in Iran after all sorts of things; Western influences entered Iran before the fall of the Shah, they were allowed to continue even while they were holding Americans hostage, and in general, they survived and were propagated by the younger crowd. For natural reasons, these trends continued as part of society.

Much like our sodomy laws within the States…our legal system does not actively seek out to control such behavior or arrest those that are committing it.

The United States has laws on the books which are completely unconstitutional and are simply waiting for a Supreme Court case to overturn them. Those are the sodomy laws, those are the lewd acts laws, those are the ridiculous laws which aren't enforced because there's no way to make them stick without any sane judge throwing them out of court.
That's in a westernized, secular democratic nation.
Iran is a "republic" which is completely ruled by Sharia Law. That means that if you anger the church, you get brought up on charges. They don't have the benefits of a liberalized society in which our main theme for justice is "as long as it does not hurt another and it is not egregiously wrong, you can do it," instead, the Iranian theocracy is ruled by a collection of strict religious laws where the judges, essentially, end up playing the vengeful preacher meting out punishment like it's the 1600s in Massachusetts. There's quite a difference between the legal system of the United States which is based on common sense, trial and error, and jurisprudence, and the system of the Islamic Republic of Iran which is based on religious law as dictated and interpreted by one man with a cult of personality around him.
Perhaps you're beginning to understand the differences between a democracy and a tinpot cult of personality dictatorship.

[Athgar]

You British just have to be different, with your weird measurements, weird coin system and your cars...

[Cheshire Fox]

So, who's the hypocrite now, Darkskul?

Wait...so how am I a hypocrite? This is probably blindingly obvious and I'm just nto seeing it, but nevertheless, see it I do not.

[Calamity_Jones]

You British just have to be different, with your weird measurements, weird coin system and your cars...

If you're talking about Spencer, he's not British, I am however. As regards to weird measurements, we do not use the ridiculous Imperial system anymore. Go fucking check your argument before you make it, idiot. The Imperial system is a bag of turd, we've realised. Most of the world uses Metric (which is a brilliant system) and we now use it too.

Pound sterling just rules. We like our currency, the coins are kinda nicely decorated too. What's so weird about it?

I'm not a car person, so I won't argue about cars... I'm sure somebody would though... We use the same bloody cars as everyone else... My parents drive a rather nice French car...

edit: as regards to uniform, I think it's a good thing. Enforces a bit of authority on unruly little bastards (young people). They need to be told who's boss... Look at bloody Chavs, they need a bit of discipline. They are absolutely not the top rung of society, they are not important and they are not in control.

edit: kinda flipped there I just really really don't like imperial units, having to try and convert them into units that make sense drives me mad...

Edited by Calamity_Jones, 03 May 2007 - 12:33 PM.

[Hostile]

Back to the question, "what is a western haircut" a mohawk? Coloring your hair? Spiking your hair? Shaving your head?

Countries around the world have been doing this since the dawn of man. African tribes, souh american indians, chinese, indians.

But if you add the word western in front of this, than it has some meaning. What's the official length a man can wear his hair in Iran? How short can a woman wear it?

This is the BS part. I think you all missed this point. Who determines that it is western with a book of regulations 3 inches thick to cover every possible haircut? Some dude on the spot with a baton?

It's a brutal theocracy. Even in western nations that have haircut rules, they apply to schools. And you certainly don't get flogged for breaking them. You either fix it according to standards, or no longer attend that school.

You cannot compare the two. The difference is too vast. In the large scope of things, I don't give a fuck how they wear thier hair in Iran.

But in accordance with my ongoing discussion about Islam, it's just another brick in the wall to brink forth enlightment to the world about this quickly spreading, tyrantical, and very violent religion.

Let's not forget these guys:
http://www.parapundi...ves/004213.html
and
http://edition.cnn.c...reut/index.html

Little by little they are trying to topple/change governments around the world. And they're making progress. If you deny this, than you are completely blind.

They are actually coming right out and telling you what they are gonna do, than they make progress doing it.

[offtopic] the US is stupid for not using the metric system. We sell a gallon of milk and a 2 litre bottle of soda, go figure[/offtopic]

[Cheshire Fox]

All religions are that brutal. Islam just has more people who follow all the way throught with it. That's the reason Judiasm has the Talmud and the Mishna and all the Rabbi's reinterpretating things...there was no way we could pull off the kinda shit god was telling us, so we toned it down. The Muslims are in power, there is no one to stop them there. The Church is too powerful and full of fanatics.

[Hostile]

All religions are that brutal. Islam just has more people who follow all the way throught with it. That's the reason Judiasm has the Talmud and the Mishna and all the Rabbi's reinterpretating things...there was no way we could pull off the kinda shit god was telling us, so we toned it down. The Muslims are in power, there is no one to stop them there. The Church is too powerful and full of fanatics.

"All religions are brutal"

That's great news to hear, we all knew that. (except for all the humanitarian work christians/jews due but not going there...)

But are you actually trying to compare the level of violence from christian extremists and jewish extremists with the worldwide violence produced by Islam in this "current" modern world?

Seriously compare the level of violence occuring today from Islamic extremists and dare to tell me there is anything close to that level from christian/jewish extremists?

And take into account this is occuring on every continant in the world. Not just the middle east.

[Comrade Kal]

Presumably you denounced christianity then, Hostile, when Catholics and Protestants were blowing things up in Ireland and the UK in past decades.

[Cheshire Fox]

What I meant was that all religions are instructed to be brutal. Some just take it more literally than others. Islam takes it very, very seriously at the moment. All religions, when in power, will follow through with the more bloodthirsty passages it seems.

[Hostile]

Presumably you denounced christianity then, Hostile, when Catholics and Protestants were blowing things up in Ireland and the UK in past decades.

I certainly haven't forgotten that. Those terrorists are no differant than islamo terrorists. At the same time the IRA isn't trying to set up a world spanning caliphate either.

It's too vastly disproportional. I'm sure here and there you're gonna find this kinda christian terrorist stuff. But it's not 10:1 islamo to christian, it's not 100:1, IMO is more like a 1000:1

Or maybe even more...

I can't seem to remember a member from the Red Crescent being killed while doing charity work in a christian country after a secular middle east paper releases cartoons of the Jesus in a less than flattering way.

But I can remember a nun being killed in Eguipt while doing charity work after the secular Danish paper released degrading cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed.

This doesn't even count the world wide riots and flag burning. Like codecat said, where did they get so many Danish flags so quickly? I'll tell you how, because islamic leaders staged the riots and provided the "necessary supplies"

That is not even a disputed fact at this point, but the level of coordination raises an eyebrow IMO.

[olli]

/agreed

i think this racisms stuff is bollocks.
say a muslim insults our country or does somethign bad... do we go out burning flags and de-capiataing muslims? no we dont. nothing would happen.
say a brit did the same thing in a muslim country. fuck me the next day there burning flags and firing AK's in the air and burning effigies of the pope. and we dont do any thing.
some people are animals.

[Cheshire Fox]

I think it might be a bit of an inferiority complex with them. They have been screwed over by each other and the rest of the world many times, so they're a bit flippant. Flippant enough to set fire to embassies over a cartoon.

I'm not saying it's in anyway right or acceptable in this modern world, but that could be a possible explanation.

Edited by Darkskul, 05 May 2007 - 06:03 PM.

[Hostile]

I think it might be a bit of an inferiority complex with them. They have been screwed over by each other and the rest of the world many times, so they're a bit flippant. Flippant enough to set fire to embassies over a cartoon.

I'm not saying it's in anyway right or acceptable in this modern world, but that could be a possible explanation.

I don't feel it's an insecurity complex. I believe it's a worldwide plan to implement "thier" rules. Well coordinated, very thought out, and properly implemented.

It's a religion gone mad. And the moderates of this religions "choose" to not reign in thier crazies. My exerience from living in the US, we reign in our religious crazies. As mich as we can. There is NO chance of religious theocracy in the US.

But this isn't the same from islamsist nations. They don't care what you think about democracy. They care about shariah law.

Think deeply inside your soul, we know how to defeat our own crazies religously. But add that thier are 10k immigrants moving into our nations, and thier goal is to replace our government with thiers using our democratic tools to do it.

Europe is under full assult. So is the US. We have open borders. A muslim extremists gets a visa to Germany, this allows free movemnet to the US. Then this person moves to through the US based on his German Visa.

Than you have 9/11. At what point do we need to review and address the loop holds in US issuing US VISA from friendly nations, when those friendly nations issued VISAs to countries that might contain extremists.

It appears the Islamic extremists have the best plan for defeat of the western powers. By scaring them so much through terrorism they become "police states" to protect thier own citizens.

Thier plan is brilliant. Scare us democracies into becoming police states, than cater to the masses about how to protect the masses. Than they appeal to the masses that immigrated to the western nations.

It's brilliant. Riots in france and western europe. 9/11 in the US, terrorists attacks in Saudi Arabia. Jamil Tigers in Indonesia. I don't know what else to say. I am obseserving the most brilliant infiltration and use of domestic laws for external gain that's I've ever seen.

And I'm witnessing it with my own eyes. It's simply amazing the number of people who choose to not see it.

First replies are "damns those christians." Fuck the chrisitians, athiests already won. What about these crazy muslim crazies, the muslim extremists?

[Athgar]

Just when you thought that people couldn't come up with more 9/11 conspiracies, this comes along. Why do people continue making these? Every know that the 9/11 was a Jewish plan, to get more power. Just like WW2...

Btw, my comment about Britain was not an attack. I just commented on your weird systems. Driving in the opposite side of the road, the imperial system and how your money were in the old days with 3 kinds of coins with different values. Yes, i know that you have changed alot of these things, but again, it wasn't an attack on your person or country, Calamity.

[Cheshire Fox]

(I'm gonna hope what you said about Jews was sarcasm, which I fully trust it is.)

Yeah, leave it to the British to come up with ridiculous measurments, dump them on us, and then change to another system!

[MSpencer]

(I'm gonna hope what you said about Jews was sarcasm, which I fully trust it is.)

With the recent pro-Nazi attitudes all over this board, and the irrational fear of socialism in France, I'd consider those words very carefully. Sarcasm is dying around here... along with common sense.

[Athgar]

Everything is a zionist plot

Just to clarify, im very left oriented and i mostly agree with what Kal, and Cossack say. I pity the fools that are neo-nazis, and the new facsists for not seeing where their ideology is taking them.

[Cossack]

The muslims are not to blame. We are to blame.

Ill bet you there wasn't a single muslim that hated Canada before our government implemented oppressive anti-terrorism laws and started taking the one of the leading roles in Afghanistan.

A while ago we deported Maher Arar, a muslim-canadian, to Syria to get tortured when he ended up having nothing to do with terrorism. Now there are even more allegations on our conservative government that we are handing over Afghan detainees to be brutally tortured.

This is not what Canada stands for....Harper and his right wing government are destroying our world image.

If we stopping interfering with them, maybe they would stop burning our flags. If we stopped killing them (and helping them kill each other) then maybe 9-11 wouldn't have happened.

The people of the middle east can deal with themselves. If they didn't want Saddam in power, they would have overthrown him. The only reason we are participating in the middle east right now is for our own interest. We are taking an overly agressive role into something that should be none of our business and Im certain its going to backfire against us. And who are we going to blame when this happens?

The Muslims and their "hate inspiring" religion.

People dont hate other people for no reason at all. Maybe instead of trying to forcefully destroy those who hate us, we should try to find the cause of this hatred and eliminate it.

Oh wait...that wouldn't serve America's oil interests....

[DemonWolf]

The muslims are not to blame. We are to blame.

Ill bet you there wasn't a single muslim that hated Canada before our government implemented oppressive anti-terrorism laws and started taking the one of the leading roles in Afghanistan.

A while ago we deported Maher Arar, a muslim-canadian, to Syria to get tortured when he ended up having nothing to do with terrorism. Now there are even more allegations on our conservative government that we are handing over Afghan detainees to be brutally tortured.

This is not what Canada stands for....Harper and his right wing government are destroying our world image.

If we stopping interfering with them, maybe they would stop burning our flags. If we stopped killing them (and helping them kill each other) then maybe 9-11 wouldn't have happened.

The people of the middle east can deal with themselves. If they didn't want Saddam in power, they would have overthrown him. The only reason we are participating in the middle east right now is for our own interest. We are taking an overly agressive role into something that should be none of our business and Im certain its going to backfire against us. And who are we going to blame when this happens?

The Muslims and their "hate inspiring" religion.

People dont hate other people for no reason at all. Maybe instead of trying to forcefully destroy those who hate us, we should try to find the cause of this hatred and eliminate it.

Oh wait...that wouldn't serve America's oil interests....

I smell fail.

And I see a phrase here that I find hysterical: "World Image".

Bury your head in the sand,remain willfuly ignorant to the knife at your throat, the gun at your temple.

Wait for them to pull the trigger, and hope it comes quick. Disgusting.

You're talking about talking to radicals and hoping they go away.

Are you naive, or just stupid?

Edited by DemonWolf, 07 May 2007 - 09:15 PM.

[Cossack]

Maybe Im just stupid because I can't comprehend the nonsensical jabber your writing.

Honestly, what the hell does "I smell fail" mean.

How about putting up a decent argument as to why its so much better to blow the shit out of the middle east, make the muslims angry, and have them attcak us, than just letting them live peacefully in coexistance with us.

Believe me, its not in human nature to absolutely hate someone for no reason. They hate us because we oppress and look down upon them, thinking our way of life is so much better than their's that we have to make up excuses to forcfully impose it on them for our own benifit.

Your the one who believes these excuses. You are the one with your head in the sand.