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#1 Casen

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 12:59 AM

I've been growing interest in fascism as of late, when a couple days ago I stumbled upon this website:

http://www.americanf...com/index2.html

I managed to read the entire platform, and I must say I agree with it. I really do indeed see true Fascism as the best direction this country should head in.


Heres a quick read platform of what true Fascism is:

http://www.americanf...m/platform.html
(must read)

It is NOT racist. Nazis distorted Fascism's true meaning.

Also here is the FULL platform for what this party stands for(very very long read):

http://americanfasci...m/platform1.doc

I give massive credit to any of you who will actually bother to read all that, and for those that do, do you think true Fascism is really that bad? The thing that saddens me is that nowadays the term Fascist is simply used to insult people of opposing political views, or people think Fascism is racist.

So, comments?

Edited by Kacen, 03 May 2007 - 01:02 AM.


#2 Cossack

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 02:22 AM

"A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism." ( definition of fascism from The American Heritage Dictionary)

Please give me a definition of what you believe fascism is.

What is described in that website is some sort of idealistic utopian government with absolutely no corruption and where everything is perfect. In this so called "fascism" everybody works together, are equal, and a single omni-responsible government governs forever and ever without ever turning corrupt ot going against the people.

This is not fascism. What you support is an imaginary utpopian society where everything is perfect. This society is impossible. Your not supporting fascism, your supporting a utopian pipe-dream.

#3 Casen

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 03:32 AM

You mean like communists like you? =)

#4 chemical ali

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 07:08 AM

"A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism." ( definition of fascism from The American Heritage Dictionary)

Please give me a definition of what you believe fascism is.

What is described in that website is some sort of idealistic utopian government with absolutely no corruption and where everything is perfect. In this so called "fascism" everybody works together, are equal, and a single omni-responsible government governs forever and ever without ever turning corrupt ot going against the people.

This is not fascism. What you support is an imaginary utpopian society where everything is perfect. This society is impossible. Your not supporting fascism, your supporting a utopian pipe-dream.


Actually that is fascism there, the Nazis wanted to return to a peasant lifestyle which is why you often seen happy blonde haired people skipping through fields in propaganda posters. Comparing this to Italian fascists who sort modernisation.
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#5 Mastermind

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 08:11 AM

So, hyper nationalist xenophobic nations that are somehow supposed to get along well despite the fact that they only do what is good for themselves? Sounds like a great plan to me.
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#6 narboza22

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 03:42 PM

So, hyper nationalist xenophobic nations that are somehow supposed to get along well despite the fact that they only do what is good for themselves? Sounds like a great plan to me.


As opposed to every other country on Earth now only acts in its best interests? :)
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#7 Casen

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 10:57 PM

"A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism." ( definition of fascism from The American Heritage Dictionary)

Please give me a definition of what you believe fascism is.

What is described in that website is some sort of idealistic utopian government with absolutely no corruption and where everything is perfect. In this so called "fascism" everybody works together, are equal, and a single omni-responsible government governs forever and ever without ever turning corrupt ot going against the people.

This is not fascism. What you support is an imaginary utpopian society where everything is perfect. This society is impossible. Your not supporting fascism, your supporting a utopian pipe-dream.


Actually that is fascism there, the Nazis wanted to return to a peasant lifestyle which is why you often seen happy blonde haired people skipping through fields in propaganda posters. Comparing this to Italian fascists who sort modernisation.


Nazism...wasn't even really fascism, at all, because they were also socialists, so them being true Fascists was null and void.

Believe it or not, Mussolini, until his reluctant reliance with Hitler, considered Hitler a "silly little racist". He thought Hitler's racial ideas were rather absurd. Mussolini and Hitler were never really friends, they just allied for political gain.

Around the late 1930's, Hitler forced Mussolini to implement anti-semitic/racist laws, Mussolini reluctantly accepted, but those laws were rarely enforced. On top of that, Mussolini was also at one time in love with a Jewish woman. He made mistakes, basically, but its most likely he was not a racist or at the very least not anti-semitic, just a bit easily controlled for political gain.

#8 duke_Qa

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 12:44 AM

not that i really want to seriously discuss the possibilities for fascism in the modern world because it would be a great step back for most of what we believe in. i don't even want to open those links, and i heavily doubt alot of other people actually bothered to do so either.



first of all, fascism needs totalitarianism to run. even though America already is pretty close to that by having only two major political parties to vote for on the grand scale, it still is alot better than having one and getting killed if you try to make another.

secondly, fascism is easily defined as nationalistic, to think of your own state as superior to other states. this is why its very easy to brand fascists as racists. borderlines and cultures that match usually ends up as countries, and if one of these countries turn fascist they easily start hating their neighbors for not being them. Italy might not have been a big bastard on genetic holocaust as Germany was, but i know that people with more liberal and left-winged opinions didn't really notice the differences.

thirdly, give me a good example of a pacifistic fascist country. give me examples of a fascistic country with freedom of speech and opinion. give me examples of fascistic countries where you will not be incarcerated and/or executed for doing things that the national propaganda-machine wouldn't allow you to do...


if you want to find a political agenda that embraces nationalism, i would try to find something a bit more modern and something that hasn't been defeated in a world war.
personally i can't see why people would embrace such a authoritarian and oppressing government-type of their own free will.

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#9 Paladin58

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 02:03 AM

Wow, it's sorta funny that we just went over this chapter in school today in our oh-so-crappy history books. Well, as far as I know, fascists really disliked competition. They'd kill all who opposed their rule, and it then all crumbled in under 20 years. I'd rather keep our corrupted, stable democracy for now, kthxbai. :p

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#10 chemical ali

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 06:50 AM

Fascists do like competition its one of the main defining features of the, struggle is a huge part of the ideology. The idea that one person will make it to the top, the Ubermench as Nietzsche put it, a person capable of ruling all for the best of the country, not just individuals.
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#11 Ash

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 07:58 AM

Reminds me of societism. Only, not...


Every government type has its own 'ideal'. No nation that has tried to adopt it has EVER succeeded tho.

With fascism it's whatever that website said.
With communism it's rather similar to what that website said, except there's no government at all.
With democracy it's that everyone gets a vote on every issue.
With republicanism it's that there are multiple contrasting parties, but all of whom are solely devoted to serving the best interests and will of the people.

Not one country, ever, has lived even remotely up to its 'golden banner'.

#12 Phil

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 01:08 PM

Okay, let me check if I got that right:

Every country isolates itself from the others. One man of each country will make it to the top and has about all the power in the end. The people only think of their nation and support everything their little dictator says (if that's not the case for some, then there's still the police, hm?). Everyone loves neat parades with lots of flags, banners, symbols and other shit. Everyone wants to be a hero and serve his country the best he can. Additionally, violence is not seen as a bad thing anymore.

Sound the war trumpets, sounds like fun...

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#13 MSpencer

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 06:21 PM

The Degree of which men and women manifest honor and merit in the service of their country is determent of their place in civil society.

This is a recipe for nationalism. No, it is nationalism. If you're not waving the flag and shouting "Hail the glorious dictator!" you do not deserve a place in society. That's the true face of fascism.
Ideally, they'd like you to think that community activism and caring about the community makes you into a wonderfully venerated person. Of course, if this happens, you become a threat to the apparatus of state, and thus you must be removed. Fascism is oppressive, it requires rule from the top and vicious corporate exploitation to keep the people in line, if your place in society rises too high, you are removed. To get anywhere in a fascist government, you must be a member of the government/military, or a corporate puppet, and either way, you are not above suspicion, as they tend to be the greatest threats to the apparatus of state.
This is not Nazism, nor is it Italian Fascism, this is a fundamental fact of fascism. It is one of its underlying principles, the entire theory is based on complete and utter control over the citizens of a nation. For obvious reasons, this makes it impossible for anyone to do anything without being watched by the state.

Sacrifice:
"Fascism now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect."

This is so similar to Hitler's Stalingrad speech on the capitulation of the Sixth Army that I cannot even begin to compare the two.
http://www.calvin.ed...pa/propplan.htm
You should find this somewhat enlightening about the propaganda practices of a fascist nation. Whereas in any normal country, a government is not a tangible entity, it is instead an organization which is funded by and exists to serve the people (Although the United States and most western democracies have not, as of late, embraced this principle of government) through the governance of the country, fascism turns the state into a deified edifice toward which all efforts of the nation are directed. Fascism produces something which does not exist, a national identity. I do not mean petty designations such as "I am Czech," or "I am British," but an identity for the country and the government. The country becomes synonymous with the government, without the government, the nation ceases to exist, and without the nation or good parts of the nation, the government continues to perpetuate itself. This is a fact of fascism, that the government is independent of the country and the peoples' wishes, but it lies to them to ensure that they believe that they are part of some great movement which is there to ensure the greatness of the country. It appeals to the worst nationalist tendencies of humanity, our quest for petty titles and petty power, it demands not that you serve for the greater good of the people, but instead that you serve the government for the greater good of the government, ensuring that you believe that doing so will ensure success for the people.
This, of course, never occurs, since as you are serving the government, the government uses this power to ensure that its rule continues in perpetuity, as the government, as a general precept of totalitarian rule, continues to exist only to self-perpetuate. It is a terrible system which uses the entire country as a sponge, soaking up power and wealth to produce nothing more than continued governing capital.

Nationalism:
"Everything in the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state." OR "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

As above, this is the use of the principle of sacrifice to make people believe that all they are doing is to benefit the nation, an entity which does not exist, but instead is synonymous with the state, which shall use all of your efforts as a will to continued power.

Cooperation or State Corporatism:
Though private property and free trade must be upheld and defended, business ultimately serves the greater good of the state, and must be guided towards Just and Noble purposes.

Here, the AFP advocates state corporatism, basically the ultimate plan of central planning so heavily prevalent in the Nazi regime towards its end. Essentially, business falls completely under a certain department or bureau which is responsible for overseeing economic prosperity and setting up quotas to meet. This is also the Stalinist system, and this is not fascism. This is the death of the free market system (Something which I'm no fan of).
However... what's this? They advocate free trade too?! That's ridiculous. State corporatism is essentially the complete and utter control of the market, controlling corporations, using political power and money to BUY companies, placing smaller corporations under large conglomerates. For instance, the German chemical cartel I.G. Farben was formed from seven corporations and absorbed the chemical industries of Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, the annexed areas of France, and the Benelux during the Second World War. Naturally the people heading the company were dedicated fascists, if they weren't, IG Farben would have been broken up by the government only to be slowly acquired by a larger company. This is what happened to some of the German industries after the Nazi rise to power, conglomerates were formed and smaller companies were forced to join. Imagine how easy it would be to control air transportation if all of the US carriers joined tomorrow morning. United, Delta, US Airways, American, America West, Southwest, JetBlue, Continental, Northwest, all of them, joined, immediately and suddenly into one company (UniUSAmeriBlueSouthWestNorthinental Airlines). It would be a terribly large conglomerate, but of course, the government could force compliance with new laws unbelievably quickly, and of course, with no competition, they could extract any fees they'd like, and the government could tax them however they like. They'd never declare bankruptcy, because as taxes go up, fees go up, and the public would continue to pay. This is the view of free market which the dedication to the non-existent state entity forces, an unwavering dedication to the state by all individuals, all organizations, including corporations. What they say is classic DoubleThink.

Fascism alone has the moral courage to do the right thing. For the state, no matter what. Above all, a Fascist believes in virtue and will thus tell you the truth, and not just what you want to hear! Truth, courage, integrity!

Moral courage stinks of Nazi propaganda. Hitler would often speak of moral courage, moral duty, the strength of Germany (I won't bother with quotes, all you need to do is read one speech from during or slightly before WWII and you'll find it, or alternatively you can take my word for it, it's in there), and his idea of it was working towards the objectives of the state.
And who determines the fascist moral stance? Naturally, there is one party, one dictator, one government, one state, one people (The last two according to the propaganda pamphlet, although I'm sure the French have something to say about that and Petain!), so who decides what the country is to believe in? The dictator? Certainly not the people, they have not the political capital to do so, they are sapped up by the apparatus of state and they are given little more than the right to live which is so often infringed upon by the fascist autocracy in any nation. The government should exist to serve the people, when the government sets the beliefs of the people, the government exists to serve itself, and then you truly know you reside in a dystopia, or, alternately, according to some people, a fascist paradise. Welcome to Oceania.
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#14 Casen

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 11:44 PM

You know...

I'm starting to think that I need to create my own political party that shares all of my beliefs, since I can never find a party that fits EVERYTHING I believe in.

For instance, on pretty much all economic issues, I'm right wing. I also think Democracy sucks miserably. But on most social issues, I guess I'm liberal (other than firearms - I think people should own them.)

So I guess its off to make my own party. =)

#15 olli

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 07:25 PM

ok..but first wtf is your sig about and what the hell is a fasict hot dog phone?
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#16 Silent_Killa

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 09:01 PM

Is this sarcasm?
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#17 Ash

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 10:19 PM

Probably.

#18 Verrückt

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 04:05 PM

American Facist Party, dont you mean the Republican Party? :)
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#19 narboza22

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 08:23 PM

American Facist Party, dont you mean the Republican Party? :D


OOOO, good one :p
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#20 Ash

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 01:04 PM

Be fair. He isn't far wrong.




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