Jump to content


Photo

VERY IMPORTANT: Revora will move to a new server!


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#1 Banshee

Banshee

    One Vision, One Purpose!

  • Network Admins
  • 9,001 posts
  • Location:Rio De Janeiro, RJ, Brazil.
  • Projects:PPM, PPM: Final Dawn, OS SHP Builder, OS Palette Editor, OS W3D Viewer, VXLSE III, etc...
  •  Retired Network Leader
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Maintenance Admin

Posted 07 May 2007 - 09:34 PM

Dear hostee and staff of Revora,

As you may know, all our sites have been hosted at a computer, nicknamed 'Icetex', located at Mastermind's dorm, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, since the end of 2004. During these 2 and a half years, Mastermind has spent countless hours personally maintaining the server to ensure the safety of our sites, as well as their availability. We have also been using free bandwidth kindly provided by MIT. With Icetex, and the help of everyone, Revora became an entertaining place, full of creative sites, projects, mods and even games.

However, a few days ago we were informed that Mastermind has got an intership in the other side of the country, and that he will leave MIT before May the 28th, 2007.

This means that we will be moving to a dedicated server within the next weeks. This new server should have more powerful hardware than Icetex, however, it will introduce two problems for us - Bandwidth limits and high monthly costs.

Bandwidth is very expensive in the market. The basic plan for our server will give us 2000 Gigabytes, with a small fee for each additional GB used. Considering that we are yet to reach this limit, it would not be a problem in the first months of server usage. The second problem, the cost, is a more serious one. With a server in MM's room, we only paid the cPanel license, which cost approximately $400 each year. The use of this new server will now cost us $225 per month, and, unfortunately, it is not a friendly value for a group of university students, most of which have no jobs, and what we gain with advertisements is not enough to cover half of these costs and other costs from any additional hardware in the future and domain renewals.

For all these years, Revora has provided free hosting for creative projects, in order to provide a friendly environment where people can discuss, practice, and learn a big variety of skills, from gaming design, art, programming, as well as a nice place to know people and discuss everything from international politics to mindless spam. We would like to reiterate that our objectives stay untouched, as well as the free hosting for all of those who are part of this great community. The costs above will be paid with donations, advertisements and possibly a paid hosting plan for those who are not part of Revora community and forums.

While most of these ideas are still under discussion, we would like to announce the following hosting changes, active once the new server comes live:
  • All hostees will receive cPanel access, and will be able to create emails, access site statistics, create databases, etc., without the need of a division administrator, and independently if they have a domain or a subdomain.
  • Despite the bandwidth limit announced above, we will not really meter the bandwidth or webspace used, however, in order to know where the server resources are being used more often, we shall put limits. As your site gets closer to these limits, you will be e-mailed. Contact us to have your limits expanded with no costs. These expansions will always be free, however, sites that uses a lot of resources will be invited to use Google Advertisements, which will help us to pay the server costs.
  • So far, our hosting policy did not allow for hostees having project forums outside Revora, unless with proper Revora authorization. Now, we will not have problems with external forums, however, if your project has one, even if it is in Invision Free, you will be moved to a paid hosting plan.
The new server should have a faster response time and less downtimes, due to the stronger processor and more RAM. Paid hosting plans are still under discussion, but they will probably have very symbolic prices, since there is so much cheap hosting in the world wide web, and we would like Revora to remain a comunity hub, catering for all its hostees needs.

So far, the way Google Advertisements work is subject to changes, since it is still under discussion. Paid hosting is also under discussion and we shall announce further details as they become available.

If you have a site that does not use Revora forums, or has external forums and you have not yet been contacted, please contact us immediately.

Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause, and we hope this transition to the new server be as smooth as possible.


Kind Regards,

The Revora Team
Project Perfect Mod

Command & Conquer Mods, Mods Support, Public Researchs, Map Archives, Tutorials, Tools, A Friendly Community and much more. Check it out now!

Posted Image

#2 narboza22

narboza22

    Q6600 :)

  • Hosted
  • 357 posts
  • Location:United States
  • Projects:Tactical Warfare
  •  US supporter to the end

Posted 07 May 2007 - 10:48 PM

Good luck to MasterMind with his internship, I hope all goes well :p
Posted Image

#3 StyxaneZ

StyxaneZ

    Age of Titan Developer

  • Members
  • 198 posts
  • Location:Penang, Malaysia
  • Projects:Age of Titan - custom map for Warcraft 3 TFT
  •  Terrainer, Triggerer Warcraft 3 Map Developer - Age of Titan

Posted 08 May 2007 - 02:47 AM

I've some questions :

1) Is it after moving to the new site, we hostee need to paid the fees?
2) If we have external forums outside revora, then is it we have to use that forum asnd cant use revora anymore?

Hope my questions answered detailly and clearly.

Posted Image


#4 Banshee

Banshee

    One Vision, One Purpose!

  • Network Admins
  • 9,001 posts
  • Location:Rio De Janeiro, RJ, Brazil.
  • Projects:PPM, PPM: Final Dawn, OS SHP Builder, OS Palette Editor, OS W3D Viewer, VXLSE III, etc...
  •  Retired Network Leader
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Maintenance Admin

Posted 08 May 2007 - 07:08 AM

I've some questions :

1) Is it after moving to the new site server, we hostee need to paid the fees?


No. Your hosting will be free. Paid hosting will only be applied for those who have forums outside Revora.

We value everyone who contributes with this network.


2) If we have external forums outside revora, then is it we have to use that forum asnd cant use revora anymore?


That depends on what kind of external forums... and this is why we have this "with proper Revora authorization" in the text above. Some mods have forums in the Petroglyph Forums. This is fine for us, since they are actually advertising their mods over there, but their main forums are here. But some others create Invision Free or even phpBB forums using our own webspace and they hardly contribute to make Revora forums more popular. In this case, we'll contact these people to either pay for their hosting monthly or get another host.
Project Perfect Mod

Command & Conquer Mods, Mods Support, Public Researchs, Map Archives, Tutorials, Tools, A Friendly Community and much more. Check it out now!

Posted Image

#5 StyxaneZ

StyxaneZ

    Age of Titan Developer

  • Members
  • 198 posts
  • Location:Penang, Malaysia
  • Projects:Age of Titan - custom map for Warcraft 3 TFT
  •  Terrainer, Triggerer Warcraft 3 Map Developer - Age of Titan

Posted 08 May 2007 - 07:46 AM

Oh I see. Thanks. It's clear now.

Posted Image


#6 Ash

Ash

    Foxtrot Oscar.

  • Undead
  • 15,526 posts
  • Location:England
  • Projects:Robot Storm
  •  Keep calm and carry on.

Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:14 AM

I wonder what your priceplan is...


And you do realise that all that means is nobody'll have an external forum. Which is, like, kinda, how it already works... :p

#7 Banshee

Banshee

    One Vision, One Purpose!

  • Network Admins
  • 9,001 posts
  • Location:Rio De Janeiro, RJ, Brazil.
  • Projects:PPM, PPM: Final Dawn, OS SHP Builder, OS Palette Editor, OS W3D Viewer, VXLSE III, etc...
  •  Retired Network Leader
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Maintenance Admin

Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:17 AM

I wonder what your priceplan is...


And you do realise that all that means is nobody'll have an external forum.


This is the purpose ;) Unity is one!

Which is, like, kinda, how it already works... :blink:



Unfortunatelly not.
Project Perfect Mod

Command & Conquer Mods, Mods Support, Public Researchs, Map Archives, Tutorials, Tools, A Friendly Community and much more. Check it out now!

Posted Image

#8 Detail

Detail

    King Detail

  • Hosted
  • 7,767 posts
  • Location:Dayonic
  • Projects:Dayvi.com
  •  Blu Spy

Posted 08 May 2007 - 10:16 AM

I got this email too. It is nice to be kept in the loop :blink:

$225 for 2 Terabytes of bandwidth sounds like a poor deal. Is that the best that was found?
My hosting is 3 Terabytes of bandwidth for $9 a month (paypal fees bring it up to $10).

Maybe you could set something up where the popular large files were on a cheap, slow, high bandwidth server and the forums and sites were on a dedicated, fast, low bandwidth server. That might save you some money.

#9 OmegaBolt

OmegaBolt

    Lost In The New Real

  • Hosted
  • 6,273 posts
  • Location:London, England
  • Projects:Red-Resurrection
  •  O'Bolt

Posted 08 May 2007 - 10:48 AM

This is the end of Revora as we know it, it seems...

Posted Image

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#10 ched

ched

    .

  • Undead
  • 4,431 posts
  • Location:Angers (France)
  • Projects:Rhovanion Alliance
  •  T3A Team Chamber Member
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:Previous Division Leader

Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:14 AM

how so ?

We're just forced to add some boundaries that are absolutely expandable upon request. It's not like we'll go all commercial and ask you to pay for your current hosting :blink:
Software is like sex; it's better when it's free ~Linus Torvald

#11 Ash

Ash

    Foxtrot Oscar.

  • Undead
  • 15,526 posts
  • Location:England
  • Projects:Robot Storm
  •  Keep calm and carry on.

Posted 08 May 2007 - 12:36 PM

This is the purpose :) Unity is one!

Sure, but if you're actually wanting to even break even with this, it actually makes sense to charge for the service you currently provide (or want to provide), not a service you do not want to provide and abhor.

That'd be like the Coca-Cola company turning round and saying "We want people to drink fresh fruit juice!"

Unfortunatelly not.

How so? Unless I'm very much mistaken, there are no officially-Revora-hosted sites which have external forums. There was one, but they left you. Even so, the proportion of hostees with separate forums is small, and they're usually bullied to a degree.


My point is, you are not going to make any money by offering services you don't generally provide, or want to provide. Nothing is going to change - everyone ALREADY has their forums welded to the main revora one. Why are they suddenly going to change? They're not.

And everyone is also going to stick with the free hosting plan. Example? I wonder what the proportion of InvisionFree forums that actually DO pay is. I imagine it's <5%.

Apart from that, I'm not sure charging people for hosting when they're not even using your bandwith is: a) Right, b) Legal c) Going to win you any hostees. If they have an InvisionFree forum, they're using significantly less bandwidth than if their forum was hosted by you. All you're giving them is webspace, yet you're charging them MORE than you're charging one of your current hostees. You're charging them for LESS!

I mean WTF.

Have you guys even given this ANY thought WHATSOEVER? Or did you give JOSH the RA2 monkey the job of designing your price scheme? :blink:

You also didn't tell us exactly HOW MUCH you'd be charging...I hate businesses that don't tell you how much it is upfront. Even if you're gunna be stupid about it, be honest! ;)

#12 ched

ched

    .

  • Undead
  • 4,431 posts
  • Location:Angers (France)
  • Projects:Rhovanion Alliance
  •  T3A Team Chamber Member
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:Previous Division Leader

Posted 08 May 2007 - 12:49 PM

Unfortunatelly not.

How so? Unless I'm very much mistaken, there are no officially-Revora-hosted sites which have external forums. There was one, but they left you. Even so, the proportion of hostees with separate forums is small, and they're usually bullied to a degree.


We found that some hostees do use external forums. Of course, they're a minority, but they are still problematic for us.
The problem with this is that they won't display our ads, thus giving us extra potential clicks (at least for InvisionFree forums. The others that can add the ads do use our bandwidth). We want to maximise our revenues in order to make sure we'll always be able to cope with the server costs.

My point is, you are not going to make any money by offering services you don't generally provide, or want to provide. Nothing is going to change - everyone ALREADY has their forums welded to the main revora one. Why are they suddenly going to change? They're not.

And everyone is also going to stick with the free hosting plan. Example? I wonder what the proportion of InvisionFree forums that actually DO pay is. I imagine it's <5%.


Then fine. If they use our forums that display our ads, then all is fine. We don't expect all our hostees to turn to the paid hosting plan, since we know that the vast majority of our "clients" are teenagers, not willing to pay for what we used to provide for free.
We provide the paid hosting plan as an alternative that very few may use. But the more choices we have, the better off we are.


Apart from that, I'm not sure charging people for hosting when they're not even using your bandwith is: a) Right, b) Legal c) Going to win you any hostees. If they have an InvisionFree forum, they're using significantly less bandwidth than if their forum was hosted by you. All you're giving them is webspace, yet you're charging them MORE than you're charging one of your current hostees. You're charging them for LESS!

I mean WTF.


it's right, legal, and while it may repel certain hostees, that number is still very small.
I know of very few hostees that are actually willing to use external forums (I personally have 2 cases, both of which are inactive now). Unfortunately, and in order to guarantee our stability, this option won't be possible under our hosting conditions, unless you decide to contribute financially.

Have you guys even given this ANY thought WHATSOEVER? Or did you give JOSH the RA2 monkey the job of designing your price scheme? :blink:


the discussion has been going on for around a week now. And I do hope that my explanation has given you some reason to believe so.

You also didn't tell us exactly HOW MUCH you'd be charging...I hate businesses that don't tell you how much it is upfront. Even if you're gunna be stupid about it, be honest! ;)


If we didn't tell, that's because we're still discussing it.
Forming a contract without a defined price is illegal, so don't worry about that, we know what we're doing and will announce the prices publicly as soon as we have them defined.
Software is like sex; it's better when it's free ~Linus Torvald

#13 Ash

Ash

    Foxtrot Oscar.

  • Undead
  • 15,526 posts
  • Location:England
  • Projects:Robot Storm
  •  Keep calm and carry on.

Posted 08 May 2007 - 01:53 PM

The Google ads didn't bring in enough revenue before. Keeping things as they are will not bring you in enough money to even break even. It's obvious that people are just gonna use the service you currently provide as they currently do.

To be fair...the objective is to actually GET money here.

You're not doing that by charging people for less service, and not charging people for the full caboodle. As I say, I still argue that people who just have a website and a forum hosted on another server are less of a financial burden to you than are hostees who have both website and forum hosted by you.

Surely to band them by their total bandwidth use would be a fairer system? Of course, if a hostee has a mod which is up there, and it is a popular download, of course their use is gunna be higher. But a simple website is hardly going to tax you any. And with no hits to the forum due to their being hosted externally, it's a complete and total waste of their money. Therefore they will look elsewhere for either cheaper/free hosting. I would. This concept will lose you more money than it makes you.

What about those who would simply display your ads on their website, but have external forums? Have you accounted fo them?

Alternately, you could do what normal sites do and charge for certain features. Before you ask "what features?" I don't know. I'm not in the business. Perhaps make your ads obligatory for any website and/or forum that is actually hosted on your server, unless they pay a small fee in which case this is waived. Which is something I've suggested before.

You can't charge people for what you're not actually hosting (that's what I'm trying to say - you aren't hosting the forums...therefore you cannot really penalise people who choose to have their forum hosted outside of Revora)...that's illegal - you're charging for a service you don't provide. Or, you're providing a worse service for which you charge, while simultaneously providing a better service for which you do not charge. How is that fair or right by anyone's measure? People will view such a priceplan as a complete and total waste of money and will simply look for something a tad more sensible.

#14 Phil

Phil

    Force Majeure

  • Network Leaders
  • 7,971 posts
  • Location:Switzerland
  • Projects:Revora, C&C:Online
  •  Thought Police
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Network Leader
  • Donated
  • Association

Posted 08 May 2007 - 02:04 PM

Google Ads will bring in more when popular mod sites have the Google Ads on their sites.

The whole paid hosting offer is actually a new offer. We say we offer free hosting for everyone who's a part of the community, which means their one and only forum here. This is a condition for the free hosting, and we're free to set that. If you however think you want your own forums, for whatever reasons you might have, but still want a webspace on the server, then you need to pay. Kinda simple.

Perhaps make your ads obligatory for any website and/or forum that is actually hosted on your server, unless they pay a small fee in which case this is waived. Which is something I've suggested before.

That was actually part of the plan, as far as I know.

And nothing here's illegal. We're offering paid hosting for everyone... and those who fulfill an additional condition, having their only forums here and thus strengthening our community, those get the hosting for free.
And to explain what you apparently didn't understand: it's not our goal to make money with hosting... we can't compete with professional hosting companies anyway. It's just a new offer for those who were rejected until now.

revorapresident.jpg
My Political Compass

Sieben Elefanten hatte Herr Dschin
Und da war dann noch der achte.
Sieben waren wild und der achte war zahm
Und der achte war's, der sie bewachte.


#15 Banshee

Banshee

    One Vision, One Purpose!

  • Network Admins
  • 9,001 posts
  • Location:Rio De Janeiro, RJ, Brazil.
  • Projects:PPM, PPM: Final Dawn, OS SHP Builder, OS Palette Editor, OS W3D Viewer, VXLSE III, etc...
  •  Retired Network Leader
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Maintenance Admin

Posted 08 May 2007 - 06:09 PM

I got this email too. It is nice to be kept in the loop :blink:

$225 for 2 Terabytes of bandwidth sounds like a poor deal. Is that the best that was found?
My hosting is 3 Terabytes of bandwidth for $9 a month (paypal fees bring it up to $10).

Maybe you could set something up where the popular large files were on a cheap, slow, high bandwidth server and the forums and sites were on a dedicated, fast, low bandwidth server. That might save you some money.


D, thanks a lot for the tip! I believe we'll really need a space on your host soon. Revora used 1.3TB of bandwidth last month, so we can handle on our own for a while, but there are many mods to be downloaded that may increase this value sometime in the future. $9 for extra 3000 bandwidth is a great deal.
Project Perfect Mod

Command & Conquer Mods, Mods Support, Public Researchs, Map Archives, Tutorials, Tools, A Friendly Community and much more. Check it out now!

Posted Image

#16 Mastermind

Mastermind

    Server Technician

  • Undead
  • 7,014 posts
  • Location:Cambridge, MA
  • Projects:MasterNews 3
  •  The Man Behind the Curtain

Posted 08 May 2007 - 08:16 PM

I got this email too. It is nice to be kept in the loop :blink:

$225 for 2 Terabytes of bandwidth sounds like a poor deal. Is that the best that was found?
My hosting is 3 Terabytes of bandwidth for $9 a month (paypal fees bring it up to $10).

Maybe you could set something up where the popular large files were on a cheap, slow, high bandwidth server and the forums and sites were on a dedicated, fast, low bandwidth server. That might save you some money.

$225 for 2 terabytes also includes an entire dedicated server. Your $9 for 3 Terabytes is a shared hosting plan, and I guarantee if you get anywhere close to the limit they'll boot you. Bandwidth that you can actually use is a lot more expensive than the "bandwidth" you get with a shared hosting plan. Also, they better have you on a very nice server for that 3 Terabytes, as 3 Terabytes requires saturating a 10Mbit/sec link continuously for an entire month.
Posted Image

Well, when it comes to writing an expository essay about counter-insurgent tactics, I'm of the old school. First you tell them how you're going to kill them. Then you kill them. Then you tell them how you just killed them.

Too cute! | Server Status: If you can read this, it's up |

#17 Ash

Ash

    Foxtrot Oscar.

  • Undead
  • 15,526 posts
  • Location:England
  • Projects:Robot Storm
  •  Keep calm and carry on.

Posted 08 May 2007 - 08:50 PM

And nothing here's illegal. We're offering paid hosting for everyone... and those who fulfill an additional condition, having their only forums here and thus strengthening our community, those get the hosting for free.

That's called favouritism, really. That's not 'offering paid hosting for everyone'. Basically, anyone who follows the current system gets it free. Given that everyone (or almost everyone) already does (or will) follow that system, you aren't going to get anyway. Those who want their own forum are not your preferred clientele now while the hosting's free, so you will deter them by another means through this system.

And to explain what you apparently didn't understand: it's not our goal to make money with hosting... we can't compete with professional hosting companies anyway. It's just a new offer for those who were rejected until now.

Don't talk to me as if I'm stupid. When I say 'make money', I refer to covering server costs. The odds of you making a profit off this site are particularly slim. This site is gunna hit yer pockets in the balls, and if you are going to begin to offer paid hosting, make it bloody worth people's time to pay for it over a professional hosting company or even another mod hosting network.

Google ads rely on people clicking them. And even then it's only something 0.03 of a US cent per click. That's a fuckload of clicks people have to make to make that stick. And given I don't even see the google ads on any site on this ol' internet, and I should imagine there are many like me, Google advertising is hardly the most lucrative measure by which to pin your hopes of actually covering the costs of this server by means other than your own pocket.


This price scheme defies logic. Why is it that those who are fully hosted by you, who are blatantly going to be using more bandwidth than those who just want a site on your network but have their forum elsewhere, are given free hosting, while said site-players are going to have to pay? By all means make them pay for an 'ad-free' site, but if they put your ads up on their site, what's the big deal if they have their forum elsewhere?


This is still not accounting for the fact nearly every hostee will do one of two things: They'll either take the free solution, or they'll go somewhere else. You're down a few hostees, and you're still not getting in any funds for the server.

You're biting the carrot at both ends there, guys. While indeed there is no perfect solution to that problem, I believe that the whole 'make-people-pay-for-a-worse-service-than-those-who-get-free-service' is a bad, bad idea. The point is that people need incentives to take up paid hosting over free hosting, not to be bullied into being absorbed into your one glorious whole (perhaps without the W?) or else be forced to pay.

Of course, I know none of you are paying attention to me on the matter, so it doesn't matter a jot if I say it. ;) Eee, it is great to be me. :blink:

#18 Solinx

Solinx

    .

  • Undead
  • 3,100 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Projects:Real Life
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Retired Leader / Manager

Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:09 PM

You also didn't tell us exactly HOW MUCH you'd be charging...I hate businesses that don't tell you how much it is upfront. Even if you're gunna be stupid about it, be honest! :blink:

We are being honest in that it is unknown to ourselves, other than that it will be a low symbolic price.
Our choice was to rather give everyone a timely notice, rather than keeping everyone in the dark untill we know everything, which could be the day before the move.

The Google ads didn't bring in enough revenue before. Keeping things as they are will not bring you in enough money to even break even. It's obvious that people are just gonna use the service you currently provide as they currently do.

To be fair...the objective is to actually GET money here.

For the time being, the costs for the server are already covered by external sources.

One objective is to make the server, not Revora (Revora is not the only community hosted by the server), independent of these external sources.

Another objective is to maintain Revora's free hosting offer at (practically) the same level.

Because we are now limited in bandwidth, we have little choice to set control limits on each account. As explained in the mail and in the first post, these limits will be raised on request, and without any costs.
Call it passively metering the bandwidth. We won't be looking at it all the time, nor will we make any trouble when bandwidth useage of your project rises, but we will invite projects that use a lot of resources to use google ads.

Ahh... and the google ads income is nearly twice as much as it was half a year ago...
It's not enough yet, but it's still growing quite nicely.

You're not doing that by charging people for less service, and not charging people for the full caboodle. As I say, I still argue that people who just have a website and a forum hosted on another server are less of a financial burden to you than are hostees who have both website and forum hosted by you.

Surely to band them by their total bandwidth use would be a fairer system? Of course, if a hostee has a mod which is up there, and it is a popular download, of course their use is gunna be higher. But a simple website is hardly going to tax you any. And with no hits to the forum due to their being hosted externally, it's a complete and total waste of their money. Therefore they will look elsewhere for either cheaper/free hosting. I would. This concept will lose you more money than it makes you.

Of course, people with forums on another server won't be expected to pay because of that, but who said anything about needing another server in combination with paid hosting?

InvisionFree is used by those who have no hosting, or who have hosting requirements that restrict them in their use of (stand alone) forums. The fact that InvisionFree is currently used by a select group of hostees doesn't mean we will expect people to pay and still continue to use those InvisionFree forums!
What we do expect is that they either drop the useage of these forums and move to the Revora forums, which will keep their hosting a free service, or choose a paid hosting package.

Those who will apply for paid hosting are allowed to use the diskspace and bandwidth of our server for their standalone forum. If they want an IPB 1.3 forum, that's no problem, although I'd choose another type. ;)

What about those who would simply display your ads on their website, but have external forums? Have you accounted fo them?

In most cases, it is the site that is used to store files, not the forums. Therefore, we do require these hostees to either relocate their forums to the Revora forums, or get paid hosting at the new server.

Yes, there will be sites that haven't got (a lot of) files uploaded. We still require them to use the Revora forums if they want to have free hosting. While they may not have files yet, that can easily change. It's not worth the trouble that comes with.

Aside from that. One of the goals of Revora is to create one community, not a collection of sites with each their own set of forums.

Alternately, you could do what normal sites do and charge for certain features. Before you ask "what features?" I don't know. I'm not in the business. Perhaps make your ads obligatory for any website and/or forum that is actually hosted on your server, unless they pay a small fee in which case this is waived. Which is something I've suggested before.

This idea to ask a fee for certain features has been mentioned in the past week. However, there are currently only plans to set a price on the usage of external forums, which will of course be hosted by our server.

You can't charge people for what you're not actually hosting (that's what I'm trying to say - you aren't hosting the forums...therefore you cannot really penalise people who choose to have their forum hosted outside of Revora)...that's illegal - you're charging for a service you don't provide. Or, you're providing a worse service for which you charge, while simultaneously providing a better service for which you do not charge. How is that fair or right by anyone's measure? People will view such a priceplan as a complete and total waste of money and will simply look for something a tad more sensible.

As long as the service is provided as described, there is nothing illegal about it, given that the service doesn't break the law in any other manner. But there is no inclusion of another server, so this doesn't even has to be thought of. :)

What you need to do is look outside the picture of Revora. This was perhaps unclear.

Revora supplies the free hosting offers that are named in this topic.
The paid hosting offers are another thing. These are offered by the server itself.
The same server that hosts Revora, also hosts other communities, such as E-Studios and SourceBlogs. These two communities are examples that fit the paid hosting. Because there are only a few that fit paid hosting, all of them are actually contacted personally, to see how each can contribute to the payment of the server. Some send donations, others put google ads on their sites and/or forums, etc...

This variety in both communities/sites and contributions, and also the enormous amount of professional hosting offers, are the main reasons for the lack of known prices for the paid hosting.

Edit: Just in case anyone wonders why there are no quotes from the above post, I wrote this before Paradox made his last post. After reading his post, I saw no reason to change anything about it.

Solinx
Posted Image

"An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr


#19 ched

ched

    .

  • Undead
  • 4,431 posts
  • Location:Angers (France)
  • Projects:Rhovanion Alliance
  •  T3A Team Chamber Member
  • Division:BFME
  • Job:Previous Division Leader

Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:13 PM

That's called favouritism, really. That's not 'offering paid hosting for everyone'. Basically, anyone who follows the current system gets it free. Given that everyone (or almost everyone) already does (or will) follow that system, you aren't going to get anyway. Those who want their own forum are not your preferred clientele now while the hosting's free, so you will deter them by another means through this system.


We offer free hosting to everyone. However, there are conditions to that offer.
Should you chose to not agree with those conditions, then there's an alternative.
Our free hosting plan has been entirely laid out. However, we are still to define the prices for the paid hosting plan(s).

It's not about turning Revora into a profitable company. We know that very few will opt for the paid hosting plan. Modding is a hobby, and has never allowed anyone to gain money out of one's activity (legally at least).
Now, if potential clients wish to use their own forums, then they either financially contribute, or go see somewhere else.

Don't talk to me as if I'm stupid. When I say 'make money', I refer to covering server costs. The odds of you making a profit off this site are particularly slim. This site is gunna hit yer pockets in the balls, and if you are going to begin to offer paid hosting, make it bloody worth people's time to pay for it over a professional hosting company or even another mod hosting network.


Then I'm glad we agree on this, as I explained above.
But once again, our paid hosting plan is quite good so far, pending on the prices we are to come up with: unlimited bandwidth & filespace, external forums ... We also took the time to compare with a few other offers to see whether our offer was ridiculously expensive or not.

Google ads rely on people clicking them. And even then it's only something 0.03 of a US cent per click. That's a fuckload of clicks people have to make to make that stick. And given I don't even see the google ads on any site on this ol' internet, and I should imagine there are many like me, Google advertising is hardly the most lucrative measure by which to pin your hopes of actually covering the costs of this server by means other than your own pocket.


Thank you for laying out how ads work, but we have already covered that area.
You'll be surprised to hear that while $0.03 per click appears ridiculous at first, the combination of all the clicks allows for reasonable revenues.
With monthly donations and Google Ads revenues, we make up for 90 to 120% of our server costs. Adding extra ads would allow us to put money aside and maybe even move to a better server on the long term, as well as covering domain names.

This price scheme defies logic. Why is it that those who are fully hosted by you, who are blatantly going to be using more bandwidth than those who just want a site on your network but have their forum elsewhere, are given free hosting, while said site-players are going to have to pay? By all means make them pay for an 'ad-free' site, but if they put your ads up on their site, what's the big deal if they have their forum elsewhere?


I do believe I laid this out in my first reply. InvisionFree forums are not profitable in the sense that our ads are not displayed on them, thus making us lose potential clicks.
Our aim, additionally to building a community, is to optimise our number of clicks.

And our paid hosting plan(s) do include options to have an ad-free site.

This is still not accounting for the fact nearly every hostee will do one of two things: They'll either take the free solution, or they'll go somewhere else. You're down a few hostees, and you're still not getting in any funds for the server.


In my experience of Division Leader, I know that all my hostees will stay there. They just didn't settle here for the free bandwidth & filespace, but for the communities that we build around games.

You're biting the carrot at both ends there, guys. While indeed there is no perfect solution to that problem, I believe that the whole 'make-people-pay-for-a-worse-service-than-those-who-get-free-service' is a bad, bad idea. The point is that people need incentives to take up paid hosting over free hosting, not to be bullied into being absorbed into your one glorious whole (perhaps without the W?) or else be forced to pay.


As I said above, we know that chances that current hostees will take up paid hosting over free hosting is close to nil. We are certainly not to try to convince all of them to move to a paid hosting plan, but if some are willing to, then most excellent.

Of course, I know none of you are paying attention to me on the matter, so it doesn't matter a jot if I say it. ;) Eee, it is great to be me. :blink:


Well then I'm glad I took the time to reply, for the second time.
Software is like sex; it's better when it's free ~Linus Torvald

#20 Solinx

Solinx

    .

  • Undead
  • 3,100 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Projects:Real Life
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Retired Leader / Manager

Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:31 PM

Just a quick note. We are already certain to have more than 100% of the server costs through google ads and donations. The range of 90% - 120% only includes google ads and the contributions from Revora.

Solinx
Posted Image

"An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users