Jump to content


Photo

Half Way Through GC


33 replies to this topic

#1 FormulaRedline

FormulaRedline
  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 08 May 2007 - 04:00 PM

First off, the reason I registered for the forums and am posting here is because I love this mod. The attention to detail is spectacular. I'm a part time modder myself, and I know how difficult it is to stay motivated. I really hope you continue to work on it because you are doing a great job!

Great things so far:

-Adherence to canon seems to be really good. This is one of the things that sets this mod apart. There are no made up ships (I can't stand things like the Tartan cruiser).

-Every ship seems to have the correct weapons and capabilities.

-The detail put into the weapon hardpoints is AMAZING. I can't believe the number of hardpoints on each ship. Watching a ship lob huge turbolaser and ion cannon salvos while at the same time tracking fighters with quick firing laser cannons is just plain satisfying. That's how it's supposed to be done. None of this "A Victory Star Destroyer only has 3 weapons" crap. Well done! I can't wait to see the Executor class ship if you find the time to finish it!

-The scaling is great (I love that you weren't scared to make the fighters really, really small).

-The upgrade system is really neat. Even better is how you tied it into canon, such as upgrading a TIE x1 into a TIE Advanced into a TIE Avenger. It's these types of touches that will turn this from another great mod into the best mod out there.

-The new hero system is great. There are a variety of heroes and they all seem to have their uses. It seems to force me to use their abilites for a tactical advantage, instead of just using them as a free super units in combat.

-The continously draining credit system is also a nice addition (It's too about about not being able to stream them in too, though). You can start as many projects as you want, just have to make sure you have the infrastructure to support them! It also finally creates situations were you might not have money for building turrets and such in land/space battles. Really makes you think about your cash flow when you can't build that anti-air turret!



Things to improve upon:

-I feel like some research times are way too long. I spent most of the game so far researching the Dreadnaught. And honestly, considering I can already make VSDs and ISDs, the Dreadnaught isn't worth tying up the resources of a planet with a level 4 Space station and research center. I know this was the starfighter focused mini-mod, but hopefully larger ship research times are something on the list of changes. Besides my own curiosity of seeing the ships in combat, there is really no incentive to research any of the non-starfighter upgrades.

-Mines also seem to take too long to build. I feel kind of ripped off every time I conquer another planet, because I know it's still going to be a long time before it really starts producing any extra income for me.

-You've done a wonderul job with thte weapons so far, and I can tell a lot of work went into the projectiles files. I would, however, suggest faster lasers. Not a faster rate of fire, but a faster rate of travel. Possibly with skinnier (or same width but longer) visual models. I played around with this once and it really makes the battles look a lot more like the movies. It would be pretty simple to test out with one of the projectiles and see if you like it.

-IPV...what does it do? I assumed, based on it's corvette classing, it would be anti-fighter. But then I noticed it wasn't very effective at that. The tooltip lists it as strong against things like corvettes and capital ships. Imagine my suprise when it couldn't hit the broadside of capital ship either! Is it useless, what am I missing here?

-Acclamators seem to die very easily. I haven't taken a look at their stats yet, but I suspect it might be a function of their size (say, versus a Neb-B). Even my Carracks seem to have twice the survivability. Maybe some sort of bonus is inline to make up for that deficiency?

-What is your intent for Freighter class ships? I had assumed they were there to ship around troops not attached to a fleet and other hyperdrive-less units, but enemy freighters have really been giving me trouble in combat. Unless that is your intention, I might tone them down a bit. The other use I've seen for them in other mods is to give them a negative population number. That way, an empire or a fleet that has lots of supporting freighters can be larger.

-The hanger/reinforcements model is a bit inconsistent. Capital ships no longer spawn fighters...but space stations still spawn fighters, corvettes, and frigates!? Add into that no ability to take the hanger out early and it seems like a mismatch. I actually support the idea of paying for all of your units, but I'd rather see no exceptions to the rule. I include in this ground structures. I find it increadibly annoying and unrealistic that while I pound a vehicle factory it continues to pump out a tank every few seconds. I like the direction you're going with no free units, just finish it up! :)


List of "missing" ships. I tried to list ones that really seem to belong in your mod, versus a personal wish list. Stop me if they are already planned or I missed them:
-Strike Cruiser
-Escort Carrier (though not sure how you'd work that out with no fighter launching :blink: )
-Quasar Fire class Carrier (same as above)
-Nebulon-B2 Modified Frigate
-MC-80 (Wingless)
-Lancer-class Frigate


That's about all the suggestion I have for now, I'll post more if anything else comes to mind. Keep up the excelent modding! ;)

Edited by FormulaRedline, 08 May 2007 - 06:04 PM.


#2 Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

    Beyond the Impossible

  • Petrolution Staff
  • 6,509 posts
  • Projects:Phoenix Rising
  •  Mod Leader
  • Division:Petrolution
  • Job:Mod Specialist

Posted 08 May 2007 - 07:26 PM

First off, the reason I registered for the forums and am posting here is because I love this mod.

Thank you. It is a lot of work, but I love doing it and hope to break into the industry when I graduate.

-I feel like some research times are way too long. I spent most of the game so far researching the Dreadnaught. And honestly, considering I can already make VSDs and ISDs, the Dreadnaught isn't worth tying up the resources of a planet with a level 4 Space station and research center. I know this was the starfighter focused mini-mod, but hopefully larger ship research times are something on the list of changes. Besides my own curiosity of seeing the ships in combat, there is really no incentive to research any of the non-starfighter upgrades.

Some people have also told me they are too short, but the idea is to have so many research options that you are unable to build them all in a single game. I also disliked the fact that you could build an entire fleet at a single planet in EaW when you have 20 starbases, so much of the slowdown in build times is to force players to use all their resources.

I'm pretty happy with the times as they are right now, but I'm working on something that will probably make you happy. Instead of totally getting rid of EaW's tech levels, I'm going to script it so that Tech 1 starts with nothing researched (like the mini-mod is now), Tech 2 starts with the first tier ship designs unlocked, Tech 3 starts with second tier, and so on. Players will still have to purchase upgrades, but it will give them the option of starting a game with all ship classes unlocked.

As for capital ships being useless, that was kind of inevitable in the mini-mod since I only had upgrades done for fighters and bombers. It takes a while to design 9 upgrades for every ship that are balanced and appropriate to that ship's role.

-Mines also seem to take too long to build. I feel kind of ripped off every time I conquer another planet, because I know it's still going to be a long time before it really starts producing any extra income for me.

That was done more of as a quick and dirty means of easing players into a game so they aren't forced to deal with combat before getting bases set up and whatnot. I haven't dealt with changing land at all yet and it's certainly something that can be changed in the future.

-You've done a wonderul job with thte weapons so far, and I can tell a lot of work went into the projectiles files. I would, however, suggest faster lasers. Not a faster rate of fire, but a faster rate of travel. Possibly with skinnier (or same width but longer) visual models. I played around with this once and it really makes the battles look a lot more like the movies. It would be pretty simple to test out with one of the projectiles and see if you like it.

Yeah, I've already increased the speed a little bit and intend to fix the turbolasers and ions from looking so teardropped. It's just a matter of fine-tuning how much you want fighters to get hit, since obviously faster projectiles mean more hits. But I think that is a valid point.

-IPV...what does it do? I assumed, based on it's corvette classing, it would be anti-fighter. But then I noticed it wasn't very effective at that. The tooltip lists it as strong against things like corvettes and capital ships. Imagine my suprise when it couldn't hit the broadside of capital ship either! Is it useless, what am I missing here?

Yeah, unfortunately canon lists it as carrying turbolasers, so it has turbolasers. I guess that's not necessarily a bad thing, just a little different. Battleships and capitals, or anything armed only with turbolasers, will have a horrible time hitting a corvette. Try using 10 or so against a Republic-class.

Also, if you want to mess around with it, the first upgrade for the IPV is actually done and present in the mini-mod, I just disabled it for consistency (I wanted to do a quick test of upgrades on single ships opposed to squadrons). You should only have to remove the comments at the end of the IPV's file. It gives it hyperdrive and a warhead launcher if I remember correctly.

-Acclamators seem to die very easily. I haven't taken a look at their stats yet, but I suspect it might be a function of their size (say, versus a Neb-B). Even my Carracks seem to have twice the survivability. Maybe some sort of bonus is inline to make up for that deficiency?

That's one of the ships that doesn't have exact canon stats, so it can be somewhat open to interpretation. People have mentioned this before though and I think it has to do with the huge dagger shape, since the hitpoints are more or less scaled from the Venator.

I also have a number of collision meshes to redo since I just used the default, which is smaller, to save time on a lot of them, so it could also be a case of the others being too hard to kill. Any ship that gets hit and doesn't appear to show damage effects will be redone.

-What is your intent for Freighter class ships? I had assumed they were there to ship around troops not attached to a fleet and other hyperdrive-less units, but enemy freighters have really been giving me trouble in combat. Unless that is your intention, I might tone them down a bit. The other use I've seen for them in other mods is to give them a negative population number. That way, an empire or a fleet that has lots of supporting freighters can be larger.

They were supposed to do a lot of things I couldn't get EaW to accept before the release, heh. They all produce income, but they were also supposed to give a salvage bonus in combat and be able to smuggle (eventually replacing the actual "smuggler"). Negative population isn't a bad idea, but I'm worried about performance and balance, since, if I know EaW, it will let you bring an unlimited number of negative population units into combat.

-The hanger/reinforcements model is a bit inconsistent. Capital ships no longer spawn fighters...but space stations still spawn fighters, corvettes, and frigates!? Add into that no ability to take the hanger out early and it seems like a mismatch. I actually support the idea of paying for all of your units, but I'd rather see no exceptions to the rule. I include in this ground structures. I find it increadibly annoying and unrealistic that while I pound a vehicle factory it continues to pump out a tank every few seconds. I like the direction you're going with no free units, just finish it up! ;)

I think that's fair criticism. I didn't do anything with the stations other than make their hardpoints non-targetable, so they certainly need more attention.

List of "missing" ships. I tried to list ones that really seem to belong in your mod, versus a personal wish list. Stop me if they are already planned or I missed them:
-Strike Cruiser
-Escort Carrier (though not sure how you'd work that out with no fighter launching :blink: )
-Quasar Fire class Carrier (same as above)
-Nebulon-B2 Modified Frigate
-MC-80 (Wingless)
-Lancer-class Frigate

I kind of have a policy of not disclosing units until they are implemented and working in-game, just as a means of keeping the number of empty promises to a minimum (and having a few surprises here and there), but I can tell you that the first two additions post-mini-mod will be somewhat unexpected and game changing.

#3 slornie

slornie
  • Members
  • 176 posts
  • Location:York, England

Posted 09 May 2007 - 01:09 PM

I'm pretty happy with the times as they are right now, but I'm working on something that will probably make you happy. Instead of totally getting rid of EaW's tech levels, I'm going to script it so that Tech 1 starts with nothing researched (like the mini-mod is now), Tech 2 starts with the first tier ship designs unlocked, Tech 3 starts with second tier, and so on. Players will still have to purchase upgrades, but it will give them the option of starting a game with all ship classes unlocked.

with the research and tech options - you could make it so that some units are only buildable or researchable at specific planets, or if a certain hero is present. Such as the B-Wing needing Ackbar, the Nova Wing needing Thrawn, the A-Wing needing Dodonna, etc. This would add more depth to the decisions the player has to take - use the hero in an assault fleet, or use for developing a new unit.

I kind of have a policy of not disclosing units until they are implemented and working in-game, just as a means of keeping the number of empty promises to a minimum (and having a few surprises here and there), but I can tell you that the first two additions post-mini-mod will be somewhat unexpected and game changing.

nice to hear that there is more interesting stuff in the works

Edited by slornie, 09 May 2007 - 01:09 PM.

Posted Image

#4 FormulaRedline

FormulaRedline
  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:19 PM

Thank you. It is a lot of work, but I love doing it and hope to break into the industry when I graduate.

Good to hear, good luck with that! How much time do you have left in school? What are you studying?

Some people have also told me they are too short, but the idea is to have so many research options that you are unable to build them all in a single game. I also disliked the fact that you could build an entire fleet at a single planet in EaW when you have 20 starbases, so much of the slowdown in build times is to force players to use all their resources.

Ah, I see your point about the single game thing. I suppose I personally still think the starship (not starfighter, they seem to be spot on) times are a bit too long. I estimate I'm about halfway through the GC on the 55 planet map and I only have the Dreadnaught researched on the starship side of things (though lots of fighters). On a 10 planet map or something I would expect this to be the case, but not on a long campaign like this. If I'm the minority here, that's fine too, just trying to give you some useful feedback :)

I'm pretty happy with the times as they are right now, but I'm working on something that will probably make you happy. Instead of totally getting rid of EaW's tech levels, I'm going to script it so that Tech 1 starts with nothing researched (like the mini-mod is now), Tech 2 starts with the first tier ship designs unlocked, Tech 3 starts with second tier, and so on. Players will still have to purchase upgrades, but it will give them the option of starting a game with all ship classes unlocked.

I think that would be a great addition, especially if the research times don't change.

As for capital ships being useless, that was kind of inevitable in the mini-mod since I only had upgrades done for fighters and bombers. It takes a while to design 9 upgrades for every ship that are balanced and appropriate to that ship's role.

Ok, I knew some of my feedback would be sort of useless given that this was supposed to be the starfighter mini-mod...but then again I installed the mod not expecting much out of non-starfighters and find these great looking ships with accutrate firing bones and everything! I just couldn't tell what was done and what was still in progress, so I gave all my feedback to be safe ;)

That was done more of as a quick and dirty means of easing players into a game so they aren't forced to deal with combat before getting bases set up and whatnot. I haven't dealt with changing land at all yet and it's certainly something that can be changed in the future.

Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying it slows the AI down?

Yeah, I've already increased the speed a little bit and intend to fix the turbolasers and ions from looking so teardropped. It's just a matter of fine-tuning how much you want fighters to get hit, since obviously faster projectiles mean more hits. But I think that is a valid point.

Great, glad to hear that. And though I didn't mention it in the first post, your absolutely right that this modification will also require tweaking all the accuracies to be done correctly. On a related note, I think while you are at it you should turn the accuracies against all the bigger ships (from corvettes up to Dreadnoughts) up for all weapons. While it is somewhat difficult to notice from the nice, removed God's eye view we have when playing, it's pretty depressing if you look closely and see you ship's turbolaser shots going 300 meters wide of the target on a 1000 meter shot against a capital sized ship. I dare you to compared the shots to hit ratio of an ISD shooting at a corvette in-game to the same in the openeing of A New Hope :p

Yeah, unfortunately canon lists it as carrying turbolasers, so it has turbolasers. I guess that's not necessarily a bad thing, just a little different. Battleships and capitals, or anything armed only with turbolasers, will have a horrible time hitting a corvette. Try using 10 or so against a Republic-class.

Also, if you want to mess around with it, the first upgrade for the IPV is actually done and present in the mini-mod, I just disabled it for consistency (I wanted to do a quick test of upgrades on single ships opposed to squadrons). You should only have to remove the comments at the end of the IPV's file. It gives it hyperdrive and a warhead launcher if I remember correctly.

Ok, I'll take a look in the file when I get home tonight. I'm glad to see you sticking with canon instead of completely throwing it the window for gameplay sake, but then maybe an accuracy increase against larger ships is required. I'll have better suggestions after I look at the file.

That's one of the ships that doesn't have exact canon stats, so it can be somewhat open to interpretation. People have mentioned this before though and I think it has to do with the huge dagger shape, since the hitpoints are more or less scaled from the Venator.

That's kind of what I figured when I saw you using all the XvT/XWA type stats on the other ships. Might I reccomend, once you fix any hitbox issues, taking a known quantity to compare it directly against in game? In other words, set up a scenario where you can pit it driectly against, say, a Nebulon-B Frigate and then tweak the acclamator stats until the battles are dead even (since you obviously can't change the fact that it's a huge dagger shape).

They were supposed to do a lot of things I couldn't get EaW to accept before the release, heh. They all produce income, but they were also supposed to give a salvage bonus in combat and be able to smuggle (eventually replacing the actual "smuggler"). Negative population isn't a bad idea, but I'm worried about performance and balance, since, if I know EaW, it will let you bring an unlimited number of negative population units into combat.

As far as balance, my solution would be to just remove any useful weapons from freighters. Maybe have some token blasters left , but nothing that will change the tide of battle. The performance issue is a legitimate concern though. Either way, I think the freighters as is seem to be too good a deal. They have economic benefits and hold their own in a firefight. I think for the price you pay for them, they should only be doing one of the two.

EDIT: Ok, I was looking at your units page. This question was actually brought up by the Barloz-class Medium Freighter, which I had assumed was supposed to be relatively benign given that it was in the same class as the Lambda Shuttle and Sentinel-class Landing Craft (that and having freighter in it's name :) ). But I see this is also the category for the ATR and Skipray, obviously combat oriented craft. Do these ships give any benefits outside of comabt? Maybe my concerns were unjustified.

I think that's fair criticism. I didn't do anything with the stations other than make their hardpoints non-targetable, so they certainly need more attention.

:)

I kind of have a policy of not disclosing units until they are implemented and working in-game, just as a means of keeping the number of empty promises to a minimum (and having a few surprises here and there), but I can tell you that the first two additions post-mini-mod will be somewhat unexpected and game changing.

That sounds like a great policy. Just knowing that there is more coming is enough to convince me you are on the right track :)

Thanks for taking the time to respond to all my feedback. I know I spent some time compiling it all, so I'm glad to see you've taken the time to try to get something out of it :dry:

Edited by FormulaRedline, 09 May 2007 - 02:39 PM.


#5 Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

    Beyond the Impossible

  • Petrolution Staff
  • 6,509 posts
  • Projects:Phoenix Rising
  •  Mod Leader
  • Division:Petrolution
  • Job:Mod Specialist

Posted 09 May 2007 - 08:57 PM

Good to hear, good luck with that! How much time do you have left in school? What are you studying?

I have another year left... I was in computer science for three years before I switched to game design.

Ok, I knew some of my feedback would be sort of useless given that this was supposed to be the starfighter mini-mod...but then again I installed the mod not expecting much out of non-starfighters and find these great looking ships with accutrate firing bones and everything! I just couldn't tell what was done and what was still in progress, so I gave all my feedback to be safe :p

Yeah, I decided with calling it a "mini-mod" since it wasn't really a true beta with all the features complete, but it is a bit of an understatement compared to some of the other mini-mods out there.

Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying it slows the AI down?

No, just that your cash flow starts out very limited until you build mines.

Great, glad to hear that. And though I didn't mention it in the first post, your absolutely right that this modification will also require tweaking all the accuracies to be done correctly. On a related note, I think while you are at it you should turn the accuracies against all the bigger ships (from corvettes up to Dreadnoughts) up for all weapons. While it is somewhat difficult to notice from the nice, removed God's eye view we have when playing, it's pretty depressing if you look closely and see you ship's turbolaser shots going 300 meters wide of the target on a 1000 meter shot against a capital sized ship. I dare you to compared the shots to hit ratio of an ISD shooting at a corvette in-game to the same in the openeing of A New Hope :)

There are only two accuracies and they're pretty much set: laser and turbolaser. I felt that doing it on a ship-by-ship basis would defeat the purpose of having all of the other stats canonical, since there are no canonically quantitative measures of accuracy. But turbolasers should not be missing a capital ship by 300 meters; they're set to 5 degrees of inaccuracy versus capitals.

As far as ANH goes, Devastator wasn't using all her guns either, so you can assume that her gunners were under orders to only take clear shots against Tantive IV's engines or reactor. Turbolasers are supposed to have a 150 km range too, but some things just need to be conceded to gameplay.

That's kind of what I figured when I saw you using all the XvT/XWA type stats on the other ships. Might I reccomend, once you fix any hitbox issues, taking a known quantity to compare it directly against in game? In other words, set up a scenario where you can pit it driectly against, say, a Nebulon-B Frigate and then tweak the acclamator stats until the battles are dead even (since you obviously can't change the fact that it's a huge dagger shape).

I can try it, but that's probably something I would need another player for since the AI tends to do stupid things in combat. Remember also that the Acclamator is designated as an assault ship, so it's basically a transport that can escort itself, opposed to the similarly sized Dodonna, which is an assault frigate. That's why the Dodonna costs over 25% more.

As far as balance, my solution would be to just remove any useful weapons from freighters. Maybe have some token blasters left , but nothing that will change the tide of battle. The performance issue is a legitimate concern though. Either way, I think the freighters as is seem to be too good a deal. They have economic benefits and hold their own in a firefight. I think for the price you pay for them, they should only be doing one of the two.

They cost 1 galactic population whereas the other ships cost none.

EDIT: Ok, I was looking at your units page. This question was actually brought up by the Barloz-class Medium Freighter, which I had assumed was supposed to be relatively benign given that it was in the same class as the Lambda Shuttle and Sentinel-class Landing Craft (that and having freighter in it's name :dry: ). But I see this is also the category for the ATR and Skipray, obviously combat oriented craft. Do these ships give any benefits outside of comabt? Maybe my concerns were unjustified.

The Barloz does because it is designated as a freighter. I figured no one would spend the money to get 4 ships with 1 laser turret each otherwise. But the group also costs 1 population for its economic benefits.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 09 May 2007 - 08:58 PM.


#6 Guest_Guest_*

Guest_Guest_*
  • Guests

Posted 10 May 2007 - 01:25 AM

There are only two accuracies and they're pretty much set: laser and turbolaser. I felt that doing it on a ship-by-ship basis would defeat the purpose of having all of the other stats canonical, since there are no canonically quantitative measures of accuracy. But turbolasers should not be missing a capital ship by 300 meters; they're set to 5 degrees of inaccuracy versus capitals.

What about <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> in the hardpoints file? Can't you adjust the stats there so Turbolaser shots are more accurate versus certain classes of ships?

Actually, I see you've already done this.
Here are the values you seem to be using for turbolasers:

<Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Utility, 90.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
  <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Fighter, 90.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
  <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Bomber, 90.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
  <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Transport, 75.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
  <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Freighter, 60.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
  <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Corvette, 45.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
  <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Frigate, 30.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
  <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Cruiser, 15.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
  <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Battleship, 10.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
  <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Capital, 5.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
  <Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance>Super, 1.0</Fire_Inaccuracy_Distance> 
I guess my opinion is there should not be such a steep drop off. Maybe have it scale down from 1.0 at Super to 10.0 or 15.0 at Corvette. That's if it scales at all. The smaller ships already have a speed and size advantage for dodging the shots, it seems like these inaccuracies are overcompensating.

The Barloz does because it is designated as a freighter. I figured no one would spend the money to get 4 ships with 1 laser turret each otherwise. But the group also costs 1 population for its economic benefits.

Hmm, I'm getting a lot of Barloz squadrons against me playing the Imperials in GC at medium difficulty.

Btw, for everyone's benefit, apply for a job at Lucasarts next year :)

#7 Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

    Beyond the Impossible

  • Petrolution Staff
  • 6,509 posts
  • Projects:Phoenix Rising
  •  Mod Leader
  • Division:Petrolution
  • Job:Mod Specialist

Posted 10 May 2007 - 02:09 AM

Corvettes get wasted with 10 degrees of inaccuracy; it pretty much makes all of the smaller ships useless. I really don't want people to just spam star destroyers all the time. I added the armor classes to counter the size disadvantage, so really all they have is speed, which doesn't help when EaW makes ships stop to fight.

#8 FormulaRedline

FormulaRedline
  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 10 May 2007 - 02:19 PM

Corvettes get wasted with 10 degrees of inaccuracy; it pretty much makes all of the smaller ships useless. I really don't want people to just spam star destroyers all the time.


Honestly, that sounds canonically correct to me. An ISD should waste a corvette that is careless enough to get within it's range without support.

However, I assume you've done more testing recently and therefore know how this affects play balance better than I do. If I get some time later this week, I'll try tweaking some numbers and let you know what I find.

#9 Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

    Beyond the Impossible

  • Petrolution Staff
  • 6,509 posts
  • Projects:Phoenix Rising
  •  Mod Leader
  • Division:Petrolution
  • Job:Mod Specialist

Posted 10 May 2007 - 08:10 PM

You're "supposed" to use laser cannons against corvettes (15 degrees) and not turbolasers. I think it encourages players to use a picket line and not just tons of battleships and capitals. I know it's not 100% canonical, but if having slightly less accurate turbolasers is the price of balance, then so be it. You can't make everything effectively counter corvettes and expect people to still use them.

However, if you want to further mod your copy however you see fit, then I certainly encourage you to do so. I just don't think that such a change can make it into a release version.

#10 Guest_Guest_*

Guest_Guest_*
  • Guests

Posted 11 May 2007 - 01:38 AM

You're "supposed" to use laser cannons against corvettes (15 degrees) and not turbolasers. I think it encourages players to use a picket line and not just tons of battleships and capitals. I know it's not 100% canonical, but if having slightly less accurate turbolasers is the price of balance, then so be it. You can't make everything effectively counter corvettes and expect people to still use them.


Oh, I didn't catch that. That's fine by me, I like anything that encourages you to use a diversified fleet. In fact, I'm not sure that's even more canonical than the the alternative. After all, in the case of the CR90, they nicknamed it the bloackade runner for it's ability to run past the big Imperial ships.

Can you tell me what sort of ships are more "anti-corevtte" than the capitals?

And yeah, I know I can change my copy. My suggestions are only here to help you out, as I think you are going at this mod from the same way I did all my mods (that were on a much smaller scale)...fun gameplay through canonical accuracy. Obviously feel free to use or ignore any suggestion as it suits your taste. As a free mod, the most important thing is that you are happy with your work, because your own enjoyment of it is what will make it really high quality :)

#11 Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

    Beyond the Impossible

  • Petrolution Staff
  • 6,509 posts
  • Projects:Phoenix Rising
  •  Mod Leader
  • Division:Petrolution
  • Job:Mod Specialist

Posted 11 May 2007 - 02:24 AM

Well, since corvettes are so fast, they can outrun just about anything, so effective counters have to be just as fast. I added a space superiority targeting priority set for torpedo-armed fighters that tasks them on corvettes if there are no starfighters around. Obviously, tractor beams are quite effective too, but just about anything you use against fighters is also good against corvettes if it can keep up. Also, if you're not careful about keeping them moving, ships with a few torpedo tubes like the Venator will chew through corvettes pretty easily.

Appreciate the suggestions though, they can only serve to make the game better.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 11 May 2007 - 02:24 AM.


#12 RoguePhoenix

RoguePhoenix
  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 11 May 2007 - 08:19 AM

I agree with trying to utilise a more diverse fleet otherwise you would just spam ISD,'s and cruisers and then it just turns into a slug match.

Have a few questions/suggestions of thats cool.

-Thinking in the futue mate, what about trying to do a bit of orbit space station customisation by adding an extra defensive flot to a few key planets eg Mon cal, fondor ,bothawai etc. just a thought i mean lucasarts kind of just left that bit unfinshed, i know it must be hugly concept *have not got a clue how to even do any of this stuff you guys do is immense*, but in think it would help with the realism.

-You mentioned in a thread about a salvage bonus with the freighters just wondered what you meant by that? would it be possible to salavage some ships at all like a reward system? or use the assualt transports for there capturing purposes. I only ask cause not sure where you were going with it.

-I think its brill that you stuck to the original ships, that everyone has seen or has a good experience with from the games, it adds to the realism, was wondering if you were gonna stick with the 2 sides? or expand?

#13 Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

    Beyond the Impossible

  • Petrolution Staff
  • 6,509 posts
  • Projects:Phoenix Rising
  •  Mod Leader
  • Division:Petrolution
  • Job:Mod Specialist

Posted 14 May 2007 - 02:39 AM

-Thinking in the futue mate, what about trying to do a bit of orbit space station customisation by adding an extra defensive flot to a few key planets eg Mon cal, fondor ,bothawai etc. just a thought i mean lucasarts kind of just left that bit unfinshed, i know it must be hugly concept *have not got a clue how to even do any of this stuff you guys do is immense*, but in think it would help with the realism.

Yeah, the stations need some work. They were a bit of a hack job for the mini-mod.

-You mentioned in a thread about a salvage bonus with the freighters just wondered what you meant by that? would it be possible to salavage some ships at all like a reward system? or use the assualt transports for there capturing purposes. I only ask cause not sure where you were going with it.

Like how the Consortium can get cash for killing units in combat on corrupted planets, except I had trouble getting it to stack between different freighters and there were some very odd graphic errors showing up (like floating credits in the starfield).

-I think its brill that you stuck to the original ships, that everyone has seen or has a good experience with from the games, it adds to the realism, was wondering if you were gonna stick with the 2 sides? or expand?

Really depends how far I want to go with it. I can't say either way at this point.

#14 slornie

slornie
  • Members
  • 176 posts
  • Location:York, England

Posted 14 May 2007 - 07:40 AM

wow - floating credits - nice :dry:

and not planning too far ahead makes sense - you dont want to promise anything you cant keep

Edited by slornie, 14 May 2007 - 07:41 AM.

Posted Image

#15 FormulaRedline

FormulaRedline
  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 14 May 2007 - 05:17 PM

You're "supposed" to use laser cannons against corvettes (15 degrees) and not turbolasers. I think it encourages players to use a picket line and not just tons of battleships and capitals. I know it's not 100% canonical, but if having slightly less accurate turbolasers is the price of balance, then so be it. You can't make everything effectively counter corvettes and expect people to still use them.


Got to play some more this weekend. Before I did, I took a look through all the hardpoint files to make sure I knew which of my ships had which weapons and what each weapon was good against. It made a big difference! Corvettes were fodder when I ganged up on them with my laser cannon equipped ships and having the IPVs assist my ISDs helped bring down the bigger ships faster.

I guess I should have just payed more attention to the tooltips (which I think I discounted early on after seeing the IPV listed as strong against a Dreadnaught...but it is :p ), as they seem pretty accurate.

Can't wait for more progress!

#16 Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

    Beyond the Impossible

  • Petrolution Staff
  • 6,509 posts
  • Projects:Phoenix Rising
  •  Mod Leader
  • Division:Petrolution
  • Job:Mod Specialist

Posted 14 May 2007 - 08:00 PM

Heh, yeah, that's good to hear. Like I said, there are essentially two different accuracies: laser/ion and turbolaser/turboion. Fighter-scale ships are a little different because I figured that fixed-forward mounted cannons had the added benefit of being able to juke the entire ship into position to get an accurate shot, opposed to the larger ships where the pilot and gunner roles are distinct. But that's just about all there is to it.

#17 Decay

Decay
  • Members
  • 71 posts

Posted 26 July 2007 - 07:53 AM

This is probably just me being an idiot. BUT!

On the Hero tooltips, could you perhaps add what they pilot? I can't figure out what 75% of my hero's can do in my Imperial GC game so far.

Then again, I could just send them into battle and experiment... but that can be kind of risky.. I don't want my hero to show up in a transport ^^

#18 Pred the Penguin

Pred the Penguin

    title available

  • Members
  • 276 posts

Posted 26 July 2007 - 01:09 PM

I think Heroes still get attached to the ship with the most hit-points in the mini-mod.

Posted Image
My Work:[1],[2]


#19 Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising

    Beyond the Impossible

  • Petrolution Staff
  • 6,509 posts
  • Projects:Phoenix Rising
  •  Mod Leader
  • Division:Petrolution
  • Job:Mod Specialist

Posted 26 July 2007 - 06:42 PM

I think he means the ones that have fighters, but I'm not 100% sure. Yeah, the tooltips were somewhat rushed for the mini-mod, so I'll have to go back and polish them up once I'm done making changes.

#20 ShadowClaw

ShadowClaw
  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 28 July 2007 - 08:12 PM

Like the thread starter, I registered here too because I love this mod! It completely turns EaW on its head and breathes new life into it. It's now feasible to conduct hit-and-run strikes and fighters are a huge factor now. I haven't seen such a great mod since the X-wing Alliance Upgrade and the FSOpen project (and they're basically graphical updates). You have done a great job, and I can't wait to see what else you have in store. Keep up the good work! ^_^b

Also, if you need some help, maybe I could be of service, though I'm not a modder myself, I could do something like write/proof text or do research.



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users