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#21 D_bershevits

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 03:43 PM

Well Dragons were a part in tolkien's lore. So you should have dragons just not alot of them.

Edited by D_bershevits, 12 May 2007 - 03:45 PM.

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#22 Nazgûl

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 04:55 PM

Yeah I must agree with D_ on this. I like dragons too, and they defenitely ad to the fantasy-feel of the world that is Tolkien... even though I understand Gollums remark that probably has to do with the lack of dragons in the 3rd age...

Anyways, we have enough dragons as it is:
- Smaug
- Summon Dragons
- Drogoth
- Fire Drakes


I'm also considering giving Smaug to Goblins instead to highten their connection to dragons in general, even if it's only in this game and not especially Toliken true I know. Same with Summoned Dragons - might move them to Goblins, and move Balrog to Isengard... maybe...

And btw, IF if if if... I would do the Morgoth summon, this is the best model I can find (so far) that I (in that case) would like to ask to be donated to this mod for some further modifications into a blacker skin ;)
http://mods.moddb.co...ery/image/54858

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#23 clonecommand

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 05:39 PM

I hate the balroq beyond all reason...I say remove him completely. I hate it when the AI controls him. It drives me nuts!

Those are some pretty cool skins! And you can use them? 'cause if you can, I might sugest using more.

#24 m@tt

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 05:48 PM

What do you mean "lack of", there were none! The only references to Dragons still existing are some references to Drakes in the north in some old Tolkien letters (if I remember correctly from the old RA forums). I say leave to fantasy.
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#25 Uruk King

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 06:00 PM

I hate the balrog beyond all reason...I say remove him completely. I hate it when the AI controls him. It drives me nuts!

I agree to dissagree. I like the Balrog as a summon power. But may I suggest that Nazgul makes the Balrog only very slightly weaker than the Summon Dragons. Because apparently the dragons were the most powerful of Morgoth's creations. And about Morgoth coming in to the mod, I say no, cuz he's practically dead, cast in to the void, beyond the grave. To add him into the mod would be similar to adding RotWK elements into the mod, eh?
I will remember Rhovanion Alliance, RIP .

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#26 Nazgûl

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 06:04 PM

I hate the balroq beyond all reason...I say remove him completely. I hate it when the AI controls him. It drives me nuts!

Those are some pretty cool skins! And you can use them? 'cause if you can, I might sugest using more.


- That will N E V E R happen! LOL - tha Balrog is my nr 1 favourite model in the game. It's just gorgeous and defenitely of a high movie feel. That would be like "Why don't you remove your kidneys dude, I don't think you need them" ;)
- About the model, I have never had any contact with those guys and I doubt they would donate the model, but it's a good reference to what I had min mind for that units though...

And Gollum, are you related to Zimoo or are just all english people so Tolkien protective? ;)
From what I remember in English class "lack of" means "shortage" which could translate to "none" :p I am well aware of theat but removing those units wont happen... sorry all Guardians of Tolkien :)

Edited by Nazgûl, 12 May 2007 - 06:06 PM.

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#27 clonecommand

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:36 PM

You only NEED one kidney....

I hate balroq when it comes to AI. I have never seen it, though, probably becuase I am to afraid to fit the evil factions, except the Goblins. I love the model for BFME1, though.

#28 zimoo

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:48 PM

are just all english people so Tolkien protective


Tolkien is our kinsman (he actually worked at the college I went to ;) ). It is natural for us to be so loyal to him. Although clone isn't English so I don't have a clue what you're on about :)

Because apparently the dragons were the most powerful of Morgoth's creations


1) Morgoth couldn't create anything.
2) The Balrogs were made by Iluvatar.

Edited by zimoo, 12 May 2007 - 07:49 PM.

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#29 Servant of Sauron

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 08:46 PM

Let's clear something up real fast:
When Morgoth turned his back on Iluvatar he lost the ability to create, he could only pervert and corrupt. All of Morgoth's servants came into being this way ie. Orcs = corrupt Elves.

Balrogs were originally created by Iluvatar, yes, but not in their fiery demonic form. They are corrupt Maiar, like Sauron.

Yeah, supposedly the Dragons were the greatest "creations" (well perversions) of Morgoth.

Also, I'd suggest actually giving Morgoth a face, it'll make him uglier and then you can model his hacked up face(Thorondor the lord of the Eagles scratched his face with his claws and the wounds never healed). Also none of Morgoth's wounds ever healed so he shouldn't regen.

The old world will burn in the fires of industry! The forests will fall! A new order will rise...we will drive the machine of war with the sword and the spear and the iron fist of the Orc! We have only to remove those who oppose us...


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#30 Nazgûl

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 09:08 PM

Although clone isn't English so I don't have a clue what you're on about :unsure:


If you look again you'll see I was talking about mh_gollum ;)


Yeah... IF I do Morgoth (despite some of your wishes :dry:) I'll probably use the unused Wraith model and reskin it for starters, if I can't get the cooler model from those russian guys :blink: But this is ultra low prio, if ever, so we dont need to discuss him right now ;)

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#31 clonecommand

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 11:19 PM

What the.... ;)

I go away to watch a darn movie, and come back, a find an arguement going on in one thread that doesn't make sense, and myself being dragged into another discussion because I am not English????!?!?!?!?! :blink: :dry: :unsure:

Care to explain what I have to do with Tolkein?

Oh, I have to add this- Tolkein based LOTR on Christianity, and he was good friends with CS Lewis.


*goes off to another forum to sort things out*

Edited by clonecommand, 12 May 2007 - 11:21 PM.


#32 Nazgûl

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 03:12 AM

Another OT in here:

lol CHILL Clone... There was no argument here (not in this thread at least). It was all jokes about beeing protective of Tolkiens work or not, and I suggested that people from England might be more protective of that than others. Zimoo, who is English agreed and explained (in a good way) why (good cause that was my suggestion too, lol). But, for some reason he mixed you up with mh_gollum that I was refering too as beeing English AND Tolkien work protective... Like Zimoo! :unsure:

Now, lets just avoid all these outburst of emotions in here shall we...? Small missunderstanding that lead to loads of unnessesary OT is ok, as long as they're fun, but if they're not I'm just gonna delete them. =p

*back on topic* from now on -------------------- ;)

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#33 Uruk King

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 05:01 AM

Oh, I have to add this- Tolkein based LOTR on Christianity, and he was good friends with CS Lewis.

Yeah we know that. Some of his inspirations also came from Anglo Saxon poetry like Beowulf, Greco-Roman mythology, Norse mythology, and even William Shakespeare. He was inspired by the Bible, but he didn't create LOTR as an allegory of Christianity, you're thinking of the Chronicles of Narnia. And just for the record, I'm english as well.

But back on topic. I suggest you dump the whole Morgoth idea, using Sauron as a tactical hero is one thing but summoning Morgoth would be going a bit far like I said ealier.
I will remember Rhovanion Alliance, RIP .

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#34 CapnAstroSponge

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 12:27 PM

I was thinking last night, and I say perhaps try the Morgoth idea. I know that, by this time, he's essentially dead and in the void, but think of it now. Didn't Borimir die? Didn't Haldir die? Didn't the Elves pack up and leave middle-earth? The game's not all about continuity, it's, I think, bout giving the player all the Lord of the Rings toys from the toy box, and I think that includes Morgoth.

Just my opinion, of course.
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Never come between a Capn and his..uh..AstroSponge? No, no...Never come between a CapnAstro and his Sponge! Uh.....this doesn't work as well as the other guys names..

I am..

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#35 Uruk King

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 03:02 PM

Correction: Haldir didn't die, PJ killed him off in the Two Towers. I agree with you about the toy box concept, to an extent. But The game isn't about letting the player have all the LOTR toys in one box in a manner of speaking; other wise the mod would be taking years to make. Its about letting him/her grasp the 3rd (and/or 2nd) Age in a way BFME 2 dosn't have.
I will remember Rhovanion Alliance, RIP .

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#36 Nazgûl

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 03:04 PM

Capnastro: That was exactly what I said earlier... and lets face it, whatever I do in this mod there's always gonna be folks that think I shouldn't and folks that think I should... =p

Edited by Nazgûl, 13 May 2007 - 03:05 PM.

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#37 CapnAstroSponge

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 04:28 PM

Oh, didn't see that post.

Nice to know you agree with me, lol
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Never come between a Capn and his..uh..AstroSponge? No, no...Never come between a CapnAstro and his Sponge! Uh.....this doesn't work as well as the other guys names..

I am..

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#38 clonecommand

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 05:56 PM

Sorry, just confused...I didn't get what was going on with Tolkein, anyways... And the arguement was in the other thread :dry:
It was just that everyone was in heated discussion in all the active threads... :thumbsupsmiley:

Anyways, in the Morgoth thingy in or out? I believe that was in our original discussion. :rolleyes:

#39 Nazgûl

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 06:41 PM

The possibility of Morgoth is way down the list so it wont be in this next rel anyways :dry: (If ever). And please no more remarks about him cause I know most of you dont want him, but if I do, you will have to live with it... hehe

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#40 Xingdao Fan

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Posted 13 May 2007 - 07:44 PM

I'm going to post my huge list of ideas soon. That includes War of the Ring. Is it okay? :dry:

Edited by Xingdao Fan, 13 May 2007 - 07:46 PM.

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