18 replies to this topic

[Juissi]

So Caluadan introduced this idea to me sometime ago and I gave my approval to it. So Im now going to give some info how the minifaction system will work. First of all we already have kinda of an "minifaction" system with the Last Alliance upgrade and it is going to be keeped but also we are going to add this other system that has been used in other mods and I have been looking around and this system is most like in Four Ages but with some alterations. All the minifactions unlock one new building, two new units and upgrades for those with Mordor minifactions being expections. And so now I will list the minifactions for the factions

Numenor
Minifactions-
-Arnor
-Gondor

Lindon
Minifactions-
-Eregion
-Greenwood

Khazad-Dum
Minifactions-
-Iron Hills
-Grey Mountains

Mordor
Minifactions-
-Umbar
-Gundabad
-Harad
-Havent figured name yet but I want this to be minifaction that gives you acces to all kind of beasts.

Okey so those would be the minifactions and Mordor has four for reason that they wont get upgrade like Last Alliance and also Mordor was pretty powerful at Second Age so if given too much time, Mordor becomes hard to win. Any ideas or improvements that anyone has in mind, post here

Edited by Makaveli, 23 May 2007 - 06:24 AM.

[Caluadan]

wonderful

[Juissi]

I dont know if you noticed, Cal, but I made some alterations to the minifaction list and I changed them to the ones that I find myself more fitting. I hope you didnt mind.

Edited by Makaveli, 22 May 2007 - 01:52 PM.

[Caluadan]

yeah i noticed
two major changes:
you replaced gondor and ered nimrias with gondor and arnor. i agree, its better that way. could we still enable some gondor peasants in the farms?...i liked that idea.
you replaced eastern wildlands with umbar. just pointing out that harad and umbar is basically the same thing, even more in this time period. im not suggesting some sort of rhun soldiers (which cant be said to have existed before the wainriders invasion) but some wildmen from the east surely took part in saurons forces of this time. otherwise all evil men for mordor would be well-equipped black numenoreans, which would be quite boring.

[Juissi]

1, Yes...we still have Gondor minifactilon so why couldnt we have Gondor peasants form the farms
2, I just named it Umbar because Eastern Wildlands is a bit long name but it will be basicly the same

And something I noticed, we now have two, TWO beta testing forums Should get that fixed. I dont know why that is Or does anyone else have this problem because to me there are two beta forums

[Caluadan]

good...but how can umbar be basically the same as eastern wildlands?
btw i noticed that about the forums too

[Juissi]

Just took a look at the file you sent me, the name of Umbar minifaction was then Lands of the Black Numenoreans so imo it could be quite directly Umbar if we also add some kind of neat ship related stuff too

Edit: I got names mixed up. Originally there was Eastern Wastelands and Lands of the Black Numenoreans and now they are Harad and Umbar.

Edited by Makaveli, 22 May 2007 - 04:41 PM.

[Caluadan]

oh
i still dont think having umbar AND harad is any good idea, cus harad didnt exist as a powerful kingdom in the second age, atleast it was dominated by the black numenoreans who also ruled umbar.
so...
i suggest we call them
- umbar/harad: heavy infantry, assasins, light desert cavalry and all other black numenorean stuff
- eastern wastelands: no black numenoreans, only some crazy wildmen guys and some sect priests

[Juissi]

Actually I think that it would work out pretty well but only the name Eastern Wastelands sounds little long to me so I'll fix the list but Im going to look up for better name.
But you also gotta note that Harad was pretty nicely ruled at Second Age because Herumor and Fuinur went there and became their Lords so imo Harad and Umbar would be pretty different. It would be like
Umbar: heavy infantry, ships and all other black numenorean stuff
Eastern wastelands: assasins, light desert cavalry, crazy wildmen guys and some sect priests

Edited by Makaveli, 22 May 2007 - 05:16 PM.

[Caluadan]

agreed
i like it when we use revora as a chat program

[zimoo]

*Hasn't read any replies*

Am I not correct in thkning Umbar was held by Gondorians at this time?

IMO remove the boring minifactions from Numenor (Numenor...Gondor...Arnor...no bloomin' difference between the three). Replace them with Umbar (allows better ships) and Northmen (the Numenoreans were known to recruit horse archers mercs. I can't imagine them coming from anyone save the northmen).

[Juissi]

--->Quick cheack--->Back from quick check
I couldnt find any other source about Umbar in Second Age than Wikipeda and I took this from there:

After the Downfall of Númenor 58 years later, Umbar remained in the hands of the Númenóreans, in essence a Realm in Exile alongside Arnor and Gondor. But unlike these others, Umbar had been used by the "King's Men", who had turned to the worship of Melkor in the last days of Númenor. These "King's Men" were not friendly to the Elves or to their fellow Númenórean survivors who were allied to the Elves, and became known as Black Númenóreans.

But like said, I havent found better info and if we would want more interesting minifactions for Numenor, we could use Northmen and if we are using Umbar for Mordor, we could use Pelargir for Numenor. It would serve the same purpose. But I will think about it tough, gotta put thought into it.

[Caluadan]

and btw it should be the grey mountains - not the blue mountains - as a minifaction for erebor.
the blue mountains were in general deserted after the war of wrath, while dwarves continued to mine in the grey mountains into the third age. blue mountain dwarves wouldnt have much contact with erebor anyway, so grey mountains makes more sense...i think

[m@tt]

From Thains Book (tuckborough.net):

2280
The Numenoreans build a great fortress at the Havens of Umbar.
3261
Ar-Pharazon lands at Umbar with a great fleet and takes Sauron to Numenor the next year. In the years following, the Haradrim are enslaved and sacrificed by the Numenoreans.
3319
Destruction of Numenor.
3320
Foundation of Gondor. Sauron returns to Mordor.
3434-3441
Haradrim fight for Sauron in the War of the Last Alliance. Sauron is defeated, the One Ring is taken from him, and his spirit flees Mordor.
Third Age:
933
King Earnil I of Gondor captures Umbar.
936
Earnil is lost at Sea off the coast of Harad.
1015
The Haradrim try unsuccessfully to retake Umbar. King Ciryandil of Gondor is killed. The Haradrim besiege Umbar for the next 35 years.

From what I see, Umbar was under Numenorean control at the end of the Second Age. I would agree with Zimoo with their minifactions, it would make them much more unique.

Edit: but also says:

Ar-Pharazon of Numenor landed at Umbar in 3261 with a great fleet and the people on the coasts fled before them. Sauron's forces refused to fight, and he allowed himself to be taken to Numenor where he corrupted the King and his followers. Under Ar-Pharazon, the Numenoreans made war on the Men of Middle-earth, and they also enslaved them and used them for human sacrifices. Men of the south long remembered the actions of the Numenoreans in their lands.

The Numenoreans who lived in Harad survived the destruction of Numenor in 3319. They became known as the Black Numenoreans because they remained under the influence of Sauron. Two Black Numenoreans named Herumor and Fuinur rose to power among the Haradrim. Many Black Numenoreans lived in Umbar, while others lived farther south. Over time, the Black Numenoreans dwindled and their bloodline became merged with the Haradrim.

Edited by mh_gollum, 22 May 2007 - 07:21 PM.

[Juissi]

Hmm so okey I'll change the Mordor Minifactions and for Numenor, I think I could make a poll about it because imo all of them are fine

[Eonwe]

Will Lorien be apart of the mini faction system? or will the be with the greenwood.

[Juissi]

Lindon's minifactions are Eregion and Greenwood. Lorien units are recruited at normal barracks. I have to left out couple of minifactions but these minifactions are also quite alot of work to do. If I would include every possible minifaction it would propably increase the publishing of this mod by couple of months.

[zimoo]

Will the minifactions get heroes unlocked? If so, how will you cope with the experience-loss issue?

[Juissi]

Im not planning to unlock heroes with minifactions. But if I would, I would propably let the heroes who lose experience start at lets say level 5. Bu I could also make the prices balanced so that the heroes who loose experience are little cheaper than others.