318 replies to this topic

[SovietSoldier]

no Oakenshield then,consider he was dead at the time?

[Lauri]

obviously..

That's a really silly question to ask, since he already said it was Stonehelm

[SovietSoldier]

Yeah,but what if another model is made(I really don't think this will happen,seeing how SEE is swamped with work)

[Nazgûl]

You are a funny man SS...

[Nazgûl]

Ok, once and for all... Calling all Tolkien experts:

1) WHERE THERE OR WASN'T THERE WOLVES IN MIDDLE EARTH?
2) DID GOBLINS RIDE THEM, OR NOT? (Meaning did they ride only Wargs or BOTH Wargs and Wolves... OR only Wolves?)

We need to settle this asap!

[av8r]

1. Yes

2. Orcs and goblins rode them; the orcs rode the wargs which are a type or form of wolves

I think thats where some confusion comes in; wargs are wolves.

edited due to error in my text; need more coffee

Edited by av8r, 27 September 2008 - 09:53 PM.

[elbenmensch]

1) WERE THERE OR WASN'T THERE WOLVES IN MIDDLE EARTH?
2) DID GOBLINS RIDE THEM, OR NOT? (Meaning did they ride only Wargs or BOTH Wargs and Wolves... OR only Wolves?)

1.Yes there were definately wolves in middle-earth.
2.Yes,Goblins were riding wolves.They even did in the 3rd age,they fought at the battles of helms deep(not in the movies,though)
But we i dont know if wild goblins did ride them,in the hobbit there were only wargs.
Wargs are a kind of wolves,but they are extremely stronger and even have their own language,what makes them some kind of "elite-wolves"

So they did ride both wargs and wolfs

Edited by elbenmensch, 27 September 2008 - 10:03 PM.

[Jeth Calark]

Quotes from the Hobbit, page 105:

But even the wild Wargs (for so the evil wolves over the Edge of the Wild were named)....

The Wargs and the goblins often helped one another in wicked deeds. Goblins do not usually venture very far from their mountains, unless they are driven out and are looking for new homes, or are marching to war (which I am glad to say has not happened for a long while). But in those days they sometimes used to go on raids, especially to get food or slaves to work for them. Then they often got the Wargs to help and shared the plunder with them. Sometimes they rode on wolves like men do on horses.

Wolves and Wargs are mentioned as the same thing in the Hobbit, but as Elben said, Wargs could be considered elite wolves. And yes, Goblins did ride them.
I say put both wolf and Warg riders, but have the Warg riders as the better units.

Edited by Jeth Calark, 27 September 2008 - 09:59 PM.

[SovietSoldier]

You are a funny man SS...

You just noticed,Naz?

[Lauri]

Wargs and Wolves, yes both exist...

Some quotes... not from the books, as I only have the norwegian versions, so they could have translated it wrong
And if I may say so myself, they are a tad confusing...

If you want, you can use it as the short version of the Battle of the Five Armies

Battle involving Dwarves, Elves, and Men against Orcs and Wargs at the Lonely Mountain.

But then Gandalf alerted them to the approach of an army of Orcs and Wargs.

The Orcs assembled at Mount Gundabad and then marched eastward. Some of the Orcs were mounted on wolves. The Orc army was accompanied by packs of Wargs, and a cloud of bats flew overhead.

A vanguard of wolf-riders entered the ruined town of Dale in the valley and swiftly overcame the small force of Men positioned there. The Orcs and Wargs then poured into the valley. The Elves attacked first with a volley of arrows, and 1,000 of their spearmen charged into the valley below. The Orcs fell back, but were immediately attacked from the other side by Dwarves and Men.

The Orcs panicked and began to retreat. Some of the Wargs turned on their allies and began tearing apart dead and wounded Orcs.

Bolg came onto the battlefield surrounded by a bodyguard of Orcs with scimitars and a pack of Wargs.

The Orcs and Wargs were defeated.

So, as you can read, it's a little bit of confusion in here... It seem that there were only Orcs and Wargs, even though some orcs rode on wolves...
But I would assume that they rode on wargs, as wargs are a breed of wolves, as pointed out And there's no mention of "normal" wolves...

Also, if you go here at the bottom, you'll have a nice read
From there, you'll find more good stuff

One good quote though:

Fierce canine predators. Wolves were frequently allied with the forces of evil and they were sometimes used as mounts by Orcs known as wolf-riders. White wolves were a breed found in the far north. The most feared and deadly type of wolves were the Wargs of Wilderland.

This can be assumed to be that wolves were indeed ridden on by orcs\gobbos, but I see it the way that they really mean wargs...

And this one

Horses feared the wolf-riders because the wolves tore at their bellies.

Do you really believe that a wolf would be able to scare a horse? I do believe that they mean wargs, even though using the word wolf

And as a last part of the link I gave you, I'll sum this all up with my view

Wargs are sometimes referred to by the general term "wolves."

That's about it...
So, my personal say, is actually;
No wolf-riders, their to small to ride, and certainly no match for charging, especially not enemy cavalry..
Go warg-riders.. they're big, mean, scaring horses, and large enough to charge enemy forces, cavalry included
All that's left now, is for you to decide what to do Oh, and sorry for the long post..

[Mordor Slayer]

No wolf-riders, their to small to ride, and certainly no match for charging, especially not enemy cavalry..
Go warg-riders.. they're big, mean, scaring horses, and large enough to charge enemy forces, cavalry included
All that's left now, is for you to decide what to do Oh, and sorry for the long post..

Maybe wolves in Tolkien's work were BIG wolves, and Wargs were REALLY BIG wolves .

[Nazgûl]

Wow, thorough and great post! That was what I was looking for actually
Thanks Lauri =)

I still want Wolves in though, but I could switch to the riderless Wolf pack instead. Their anims are a tad better too, and we could use them not as cavalry per se, but sorta early game "spam" units for attacking infantry. I dunno about you, but I'd be scared of 15-20 wolves coming at me and my mates

[Lauri]

No wolf-riders, I said...
Nothing about wolves
And I'd be scared to have just one wolf coming towards me, but hey, that's just me...

and MS... I think Tolkien would have said that they were big wolves and bigger wargs, if it was that way

[Jeth Calark]

Nazgul, I think you have hit upon the solution.

for your basic cavalry, use packs of wolves (make them white even)

then the elite cavalry would be warg riders.

[aNaRcHiSt44]

Good idea! That solves that problem I guess.....unless you guys have quarrels with it; I believe that's a fair compromise, no? Put them in, but make them riderless and early-game cavalry

[SovietSoldier]

I agree with Jeth Calark.I hate Warg Packs!A wolf pack makes more sense.

[Nazgûl]

I never said I'd remove the Warg pack though ;p

[SovietSoldier]

So Which One comes first?

Level 1:Wolf Pack
Level 2:Warg Pack
Level 3:Warg Riders

I am correct,no?

[Nazgûl]

Yes, that's the way it's gonna be