36 replies to this topic

[Pendaelose]

I hate rushing or players that only ever rush.
It shows no skill.

I'm not a RUSH player, but I also firmly beleive that being able to mount an offensive in the early game is a very very real and valid tactic. So much so that I almost think "rush" needs to be redefined.. what is a rush? Is it when you are attacked durring Tech1? I'd disagree. I think a rush is when you attack using your first 5 troops and 1 humvee. If the goal is to get there before they've built a warfactory, then I'd call it a rush, but I firmly beleive an attack of 20-30 starter units is a VERY valid tactic. Personaly, I consider it a probe. See how the enemy is defending himself, and if possible break his defenses and cripple his early tech tree. This sometimes kills the other player, but its geneuenly not the intenet, I prefer the late game.. I just like the enemy to be soft and squishy when I attack with tech2 units.

Tech3 units almost never make it into the game when I play, but I think thats normal... a single match doesn't have to last 45 minutes. 15-20 is amply long enough.

It'd be nice if the tech upgrades would cost a little bit more and take a like another min. This possibly would make the earlier game units used more. Cause usually I just upgrade tech once and get the better units quickly. Though I guess that part of the reason is that I start with 100k. Though on multiplayer I start with less money.

I've debated that very issue several times... its true, with high starting money its pretty easy to rush up your tech tree, but if you are playing a 5K or 10K game against an agressive opponent it can be VERY hard to build up enough money to reach tech2, and especialy tech3.

[Phoenix911]

i think its fine as it is imo, if u start a game with tons of cash then your be fine but as pend says if u start a game with low money then it can be tough to rank up.
This is even more notisable if u take on a insain ai, your be spending so much money defending and trying to build and also go offencsive that even with the 100k start u find it hard to aford everything u try to do.

[ApOcOlYpS]

No, I completely agree. And I've played a few 10k games against human opponents. Though myself and my friends don't "attack quickly" seeing as rush is redefined, so we all get like 3 internet cntrs and baisically it makes the game longer. If the tech upgrades took longer, no one would want to just save up cash and sit in their base while upgrading. There would be more fighting with low tech units, which would be nice.

[Phoenix911]

Tech 3 already takes a while and the cost is high.
Fighting a insain Ai your cash runs down fast and so your money u have in reserve needs to be spent sparingly. u wanna spend 10% of your 100k on an upgrade? thats crazy talk.
And the insain ai already ranks up faster builds faster and upgrades faster and u wanna give us a bigger handicap?

Pend already said he hardly ever gets into tech 3 units before the games after witch only shows its fine u wanna make it so tech 3 is like pointless? i mean if all games end before tech 3 what would be the point?

Edited by Phoenix911, 07 June 2007 - 01:22 AM.

[Pendaelose]

Even when I play vs a Hard AI I still almost never use Tech3... its just too expensive and takes too long. That is the purpose though... its a strong arm weapon for players who need super units.

Even if your enemy has tech3 you can compete at tech1. the cost of units is scaled so that even tech0 units can put up a good fight. Even when I'm at tech2 and tech3 I still build infantry and basic tanks as they are the best use of money. I'll toss in a super unit, or some late game artillery, but thats just support for the hordes of little units.

[Phoenix911]

Yer thats why i said i think its fine, i really don't think it needs making more expensive or the upgrade time any longer like apocolyps suggested.

[AtomicStarfish]

I hate rushing or players that only ever rush.
It shows no skill.
For example in Starcraft the Zerg can easily over run your enemy with in mins of the game starting But i hated that.
No point playing the game if the games over before it starts, even mroe annoying when its a game liek starcraft that has a many number of cool units and upgrade that u can't use because the games over.

ah ha ha phoenix. so what does that make u? turtle or steamroller? or both? or SW spammer? etc etc lots can come out of an impenitrable defensive line xD

anyways... whats the point if you cant rush your opponent? especialy if ur up against like... nuke where leaving them to tech up is certain death >.>

[Phoenix911]

no i am balanced i attack and defend i don't really concentrat on one thing.
But Players that simply build and attack and kill u without 2 3 mins imo just suck.
I wanna play a game for fun i don't see how its fun to get in a game for it to end in moments only to start another and the same thing happens, yep that sounds like great fun >.>

[AtomicStarfish]

no i am balanced i attack and defend i don't really concentrat on one thing.
But Players that simply build and attack and kill u without 2 3 mins imo just suck.
I wanna play a game for fun i don't see how its fun to get in a game for it to end in moments only to start another and the same thing happens, yep that sounds like great fun >.>

sounds like a CnC3 player where if you dont kill them early you die...

bleh, i attack quickly. simple. if the game rolls on it does, i just build up fast. so why leave my forces sitting there eh? lol.

u should play some CnC3. its terrible, horribly unbalanced, and INSANELY glitchy and tbh, remix and just regular ZH for that matter are much more skillful and strateigic, but u learn how to rush fast...really fast... as a matter of fact, i do the fastest rush that is possible in the game. the MCV Rush (Mobile Construction Vehicle [Com Center])

btw, i play as nuke alot. so its dificult to have a force early game that wont blow itself up into pieces whenever it spots the devistation that is the gattling cannon. so... lol GLA is much better rush tactics. so is Robot but robot isnt an army...its a civilazation with big guns.

[Pendaelose]

u should play some CnC3. its terrible, horribly unbalanced, and INSANELY glitchy and tbh, remix and just regular ZH for that matter are much more skillful and strateigic,

awww, you flatter me

but u learn how to rush fast...really fast... as a matter of fact, i do the fastest rush that is possible in the game. the MCV Rush (Mobile Construction Vehicle [Com Center])

I personaly keep a different defiinition of rushing than most players... attacking very quickly I don't consider a "rush"... using an attack that could potentialy be considered an exploit is another story. Filling 1 humvee with rocket guys then killing all the enemy dozers within the first 20 seconds is a rush... it was never meant that the game be played that fast... but building a half dozen tanks and attacking within the first minute or so I think is fair game.

I don't hate the people who get the game started within 20 seconds... They're the reason I build a baracks and 3 squads first thing. 3 squads is enough that delay what ever shows up so I can build as many squads as I need. Infantry are ample defense against anything that can be built within the first minute or so. By then your base defenses and artillery should be well established.

so is Robot but robot isnt an army...its a civilazation with big guns.

I've never heard it described as such... I'm actualy pretty curious what you mean...

I'd want to rebalance Robot general to be less "tank-ish" and more flxable with a better focus on mobility and versitility, but the brute force option should remain... mainly by making the "small" units more accesssable and easier to get into battle. BUT I don't want to do anything that will make him feel gimped... so, consider it a concept in design.

[Phoenix911]

I have cnc 3 and i like it i have not found any bugs on it nore has it ver miss-matched or crashed once unlike ZH.
And actualy it is pretty balanced each side has the own play styles much like Generals.
Nob units are cheep and weak like gla but fast hit and run styles GDI is brute force his units arew pure strenth but slow and expensive to build.
And scrim is all about air, with some cool more powerful ground units later on but before relaticly weak.

I seen countless games where nod has simply over run and pawned the gdi or scrim and same with the other sides.
Its like that in generals tho, if u do not use your side effectivly or in the right way u will lose.

But don't get me wrong i love remix and will enjoy it consently but i do not agree with alot of peaple saying CnC3 was lame or buggy or any other put downs lol.

[Pendaelose]

I'm on the side of just not liking it... and its not just the balance (which I found atrocious) The overall style and gameplay was like a step backwards. I know it was a "CnC" game, but it felt like the last 15 years of gameplay inovation were completely lost on it. Theres a reason gameplay has come forward from the original CnC and other early RTS games... but CnC used none of those inovations and went Retro in the one area it should not have.

thats my 10cent on CnC3...

If your going to buy a new RTS I'd recomend "Company of Heros" over any other RTS I've seen, especialy CnC3. No contest at all. Ofcourse my own mod is one of my favorite RTS games (duh) but I actualy prefer CoH over even Remix3. I've been seriously tempted to look at CoH as the next game to mod after the next expansion. (If I change my mind about Crysis)

[Vince]

I'm on the side of just not liking it... and its not just the balance (which I found atrocious) The overall style and gameplay was like a step backwards. I know it was a "CnC" game, but it felt like the last 15 years of gameplay inovation were completely lost on it. Theres a reason gameplay has come forward from the original CnC and other early RTS games... but CnC used none of those inovations and went Retro in the one area it should not have.

thats my 10cent on CnC3...

If your going to buy a new RTS I'd recomend "Company of Heros" over any other RTS I've seen, especialy CnC3. No contest at all. Ofcourse my own mod is one of my favorite RTS games (duh) but I actualy prefer CoH over even Remix3. I've been seriously tempted to look at CoH as the next game to mod after the next expansion. (If I change my mind about Crysis)

I was thinking about euhm 'buying' that one to but is it realy that good? can it play on a lets say 4 years old computer (whit updated graphics card )


(sorry to be off topic)

[PeeWee]

If your going to buy a new RTS I'd recomend "Company of Heros" over any other RTS I've seen, especialy CnC3. No contest at all. Ofcourse my own mod is one of my favorite RTS games (duh) but I actualy prefer CoH over even Remix3. I've been seriously tempted to look at CoH as the next game to mod after the next expansion. (If I change my mind about Crysis)

its that good? does it have skirmish?

tell us more master Pend! what makes it such a great game?

[Pendaelose]

it has great skermish, even better campeign, and superb multiplayer (though limited to 2 teams... axis vs allies). It won't run on a 4 year old computer though... it has VERY cutting edge fx.

the best thing is the increadible detail to tactical manuvers... not just stratiegic. Haevy machine guns, mortars, and AT guns have ranges of fire and most deploy to cover overlapping areas. base defenses have (realistic) fire arcs and must be placed to cover choke points. Infantry get bonuses for using cover (and the unit AI uses it correctly). Tanks must be protected from infantry... infantry must be protected from tanks. buildings are garrisoned realisticly with infantry taking fighting positions inside.

and its increadibly well balanced.

[Striker26]

i think that the Axis are MUCH better in units though...Axis has a wider variety of tanks and the ability to equip rocket launchers on your squads...you should probably move these posts to off-topic though

[Pendaelose]

the us has better infantry though... and bazookas, satchel charges, and sticky bombs make very short work of axis tanks.