15 replies to this topic

[lotrfan]

Hi,

I was trying to mod bfme2 rotwk to make it like bfme1. The Main thing i need help with is the bases. I opened the bases.big file, extracted the files, copied the files for dwarven castle northeast and put it in the dwarven fortress forlder. When i start the game, only half the castle is there. Then i had a map from bfme 1, converted it and put it in my bfme2 maps folder. It had the castle northeast and ... instead of fortresses. In the bfme2 base files, by default, the dwarven castle is the gondor castle. So when i played with the dwarven faction, it had gondor's castle. When i started however, the castle disappeared and it said defeated.

1. From what i've learned in forums, some of the code might be missing. I have bfme1. Can anyone tell me where to go in bfme1 to get this missing code and where to place it in bfme2?

2. This is not as important yet, but what i want to do next is have a fortress replace the citadel in the main base. Can anyone tell me what logic i need to change in the code to make it function like bfme1;

ex.
a) In BFME1 when the citadel was destroyed, everything stopped building on build plots and nothing could be built on build plots until the citadel was rebuilt
b) Citadel could be rebuilt by clicking on rubel; once a fortress is destroyed in BFME2 it can't be rebuilt.
c) This one i think is easier than the other 2. In BFME2 when fortress is destroyed spells no longer work. I want to get rid of this.


I really appreciate anything anyone could give me. I also need a reply A.S.A.P. I have relatives comming with in a few days to stay for a month. I want to play this mod with them. I tried comparing and merging documents with ms word for bfme1 and bfme2 where i think the glitch is, but i am not that advanced of a modder to understand all of the changes. I really appreciate any help that could be given.

Thanks in Advance.

[el kevo]

your gonna want to ask robnkarla that because hes very close to doing what you are doing

[lotrfan]

I searched for his name on the website and read the topics his name was in. I didnt find out anything new ragarding these issues. I saw this question asked by many other people. I read through all of the threads and still no answer. I would like to know how to fix the problem above. I thank you for your post. I also hope that he reads this post and gives me an answer. I learned about the build plot problem, but i hadn't tested that yet. It is good to know for when i get to it.

Any information by anyone welcome.

Thank you.

[aragon94]

Hmmm...

That defeat thing means that the building does not count as a base or something like that...

[Mordor Slayer]

Please don't put your entire titles in capital letters... It looks like someone is screeming. And I mean the naked-midget-jumping-up-and-down kinda screeming .

[Lotrfan2]

i agree,and i would pm Robnkarla and ask him

[robnkarla]

Hi lotrfan,

There are a lot of problems in trying to create a BFME1 game to BFME2, especially if you want to use buildspots as there is no AI in game for this and you will have create your own. Also there are a lot of problems with each of the .bse files and the objects. The geometry needs to be adjusted pretty in most of the files as if there are any objects whose geometry is even close to overlapping they will not appear in game.

If you really want to do something like this, expect to become very familiar with modding every aspect of BFME. This will not be a mod you can put together in a few days.

If you want, feel free to download my mod to see one way of implementing this with a functioning AI. The next version will be much more complete with 6 more BFME1 maps and new gameplay style. Please, do not use any of the files in the mod without consent.

http://lordofthering...Rotwk_Mod;77598
http://mevault.ign.c...h...etail&id=11

PM me if you have questions and I will try to answer as my time permits.

Robert J.

[lotrfan]

WOW!!! It is really great. I hoped to find at least gondor and rohan bases working right, but not only do u have them working right, u made some great bases of ur own for the other faction. Great skins for dwarves. There are some glitches, however, and some great changes which i think need immediate fixing. But so far great job.

Glitches:

1. At first i got an error when i started the game, but then i searched the forums and found out that it caused a game crash with the patch. I hope u fix it to work both with and without the patch. I found out by searching the forums that u needed to uninstall the game and play it without the patch. I did it and the game worked.

2. When I was Rohan, i was attacked by trolls from the goblin faction. When they were attacking my gate, it showed nothing on the miniscreen, and i heard no sound. Only when i went to look at my base did i see my gate was under attack. There is a small possibility that it is my computer, because my comp has been acting wierd lately, but if u think u might know a place where an error could occur in the code and would like to just review some of the code, it might do some good. It only happened once so far. Will have to do more testing. May have been a one time thing, but just letting u know in case it isn't. Nothing big really.

3. The Elven walls look really good, but when i put ents and elves on them, instead of having further range, i think it has no bonus or has shorter range for the elves. I think the ents are fine. Also, when i tell them to attack a unit in range (they were already attacking the unit automatically, but when i click to attack the unit), they start moving off of the wall. In BFME1, they units on the wall would attack the units in range, and would only move off the wall if they were out of range. (In terms of the elves having lesser range, i am not sure if it is how they are in rotwk, or in ur mod as opposed to BFME2 which has longer range for elves. If this is the case then please ignore the first part of this paragraph about the glitch)


Problems that i think need immediate fixing:

1. AI
The AI is working good in terms of building and stuff, but what i have a problem with is the way they attack.
a) When i want to train my heroes, i want to train them against incomming units such as goblins or something, but instead of attacking my hero, or army, they run past me straight for my buildings instead of my units; they completely ignore them. This is an AI imbalance that was introduced with BFME2. I am not very familiar with AI modding, but i think it has something to do with threatlevels and stuff. I would suggest fixing this to balance AI.
b) As I'm sure everyone has noticed, BFME2 only allows for one type of strategy as opposed to BFME1: That is rush. BFME2 allowed 3-4 different types of strategy's. I would suggest balancing this also. I personally wouldn't know how to fix this, but i would consider looking at how the AI is scripted for BFME1 to get an idea.

2. I CAN'T BELIEVE U DONT HAVE BUILDING PLOTS!!!
Ur bases were very good for making BFME2 like BFME1 style. Except u forgot 1 thing. U forgot the building plots. I know that there WAS a problem with building plots before, but as of about 2 months ago, they figured out how to fix it with 1 line of code. This is the link:

http://forums.revora...ememberbehavior
http://forums.revora...ememberbehavior

Search for castlememberbehavior and it will show u where to put it in the code. Also u can searh for "Plots" in the bfme2/rotwk forums to learn about the building plots if u run into more problems. With this information now at hand, i hope u also add custom building plots to ur next mod.

a) Add building plots in base
b) Fix building plots on walls (The dwarven setup seems ok for now, but with gondor and other armies, i'd like to see different building plots on the wall, such as the ones when u play a minas tirith map.)
c) Builders removed completely due to building plots
d) Something has to be done about the ent moots, but i haven't figured it out yet. (lol)

I know that c and d are a big leap, but at least if u find something for d then let me know. For c, i think i can fix it by myself for my own personal mod, if u dont want to put it. (By the way, i want to make a personal mod based off of ur mod. Can i do this. I dont want to go and advertise it on sites and everywhere. I want it for private use. Can i do this? I dont think u'll have a problem for private use, but can i have ur consent?)


Further suggestions that are not of immediate importance, but suggestions to add to the game. Not too many right now cuz i haven't played it that much, but i have already come up with a few.

a) I went to ur forum and already saw that u had a poll for this. I am glad u r already making progress with this. This is the commandpoint factor. I would like the static one which sets a definate command point factor. No farm or fortress or statue or hub bonuses. Just like BFME1. I think that it will probably be balanced if u do 1000 for good armies, and 1500 for evil armies. I have not decided yet whether the command points should change or not based on the number of players in the game but i think u got the right concept going. I will add my vote in the forum in a bit.

b) Mountable Models:

1) I have found a mountable model for Radagast the Brown. It is Radagast on an Eagle!!! Here is the link for the model:

http://firmus.the3rd...ownloadsen.html

I got this from a post I made when BFME1 was out. U can search for my names in the forums if u like. I believe these are free models for anyone who wants to use them. It is also by someone here at the3rdage.net so u can easily check

I think that his rank 10 move should be moved to rank nine and that his new rank 10 move become mount to eagle. The models were made with BFME1 software, so the graphics may be a bit bad compared to BFME2, but if there is no other Radagast model out there then i think this is still good. It should still look good in game.

2) Mountable Gandalf to eagle would be nice, as he mounts eagles many times in the book, and even in the movie. I have only seen pictures of someone using it in a mod a long time ago for BFME1, but no files for the models.

3) I was on ur site recently and i saw u where doing something about the Nazgul. I also think they should be able to double mount. If u search for my name in the forums, 2playgames tells the basics of how to doulbe mount the nazgul, but as i said, i am not good with models and their coding.

* (EXTRA NOT IMPORTANT DONT READ IF U DONT HAVE TIME TO DO IT) Also i would like the code for a mountable boromir. I dont know if u want to add him like this to the game, but in BFME1 Boromir was slow, weak, and cost more than Faramir. Faramir had mount and other good moves. I felt that Boromir lacked a little so i wanted a mount. Now in BFME2, he is good. He walks fast and everything, but i figured, if u wanted to add this extra in the code, it would be nice. I dont know how to add models with the code in game. I know how to use commandsets, so once the could was in place, if i wanted the mount out of the game, i would just put a ";" before the commandset, and it's gone. This is 100% extra and not necessary at all. This would just be a nice backup, so if it is too much trouble scrap it. This is only for an very unlikely chance if i decide to use it in the future.


I still haven't explored everything in ur mod yet. I want to see how the elven walls are, if they rebuild and all. I only really played war of the ring once or twice in the past. With ur new missions, i plan on playing it more. I still have to move my files from my bfme1 folder and try out the mission. I hope to have more suggestions to make ur mod better. I look forward to more maps as i only have ONE with the current version of the mod i have.


What i like about ur mod already:

1) BFME2 made like BFME1 bases and gameplay. When BFME2 came out i thought it would be like this mod. I thought it would be like BFME1 but with better graphics, more units and heroes, and EXTENDED (not new) mission, and other new great features. It was good, except i didn't like the new style of gameplay. Ur mod is fixing that and making it better than i thought.

2) I dont know exactly wut u did, but if u didn't do this, this would have been listed with my suggestions. I only played with some Rohan, Elven heroes, and the Dwarves a bit so far, but it seems that u have managed to make the heroes as strong as they were in BFME1; including new heroes. I think this is EXCELLENT. This is one of the best features of ur mod. When BFME2 came out, it made the heroes so much weaker. Many of them didn't seem worth buying even though they were usually needed. Ur mod fixed it to the BFME balance for heroes; the way they were before patch 1.03 for BFME1; the way i like it. It has been this way for the heroes i played with so far. I hope it is like this for all of the heroes.

3) I like the fixes that u did with the factions, especially Rohan, and the way u put some of the heroes. I was planning to remove some factions from the game for my mod, but i am reconsidering seeing the changes that u made.


I know that this is a long post. U wanted feedback and criticism and i wanted changes, and a good mod made better so here it is. I think ur mod is great and has huge potential. I have only had ur mod for a few days and still trying things out. I plan on giving more feedback and criticism in the future. I hope that u consider the feeback and criticism that i gave u. It took a long time to make this post so i hope u use this information well. Please work on these changes A.S.A.P. if u can. I want to enjoy this mod this summer.

[Devon]

*sigh*



the idea was to combine the better parts of both bfme1 and 2, hence the fact that there are no building plots. i got kinda bored after i finished that part, but all of that should probly go to rj's forum, not here.

[robnkarla]

If anyone can move this to my subforum, I would not mind or we can leave it in the general forum.

As for your items listed:

1) Yeah, the version out right now works on 1.0 of RotW. The next version will work with the patch.
2) Rohan was not 100% completed at the point of release, pretty far from it. What you experienced is part of this, as the EVAs were not complete for Rohan. (No "forged blades are ready", etc.) This will be improved in the next release.
3) I'll check the range bonus' of the elven walls to see if they are the same as the men and dwarves. As for them getting off the walls, this is part of the programming and sucidal tendicies of units in BFME2 and not the mod. You'll see similar things happen on fortress maps. I would love to get "Guard" to work and other items as that was one aspect of gameplay in BFME1 that I felt was worsened in BFME2

For the problems to be fixed:
1) I would love to fix this. I have a couple of options that I will be looking into, but it is deeply coded into the AI for them to attack resource buildings. Threat levels, attack priorities really don't work. The only thing that I've found that works is armor %s and scalars. This though prevents the ability to attack buildings in general.

I've thought about having only forged blades and fire arrows be able to attack buildings. This will prevent early game resource building rushing, but the negative impact might be too much.

2) Build plots - As I explained in the earlier post, the choice not to have build plots was not made because I could not do it. Build Plots are much easier to implement than the AI that I had to do to make it work. The problem with the build plots is that the AI currently does not use them as they were removed from the AI scripting for BFME2. I was planning on releasing some maps that are BFME1 maps that are 100% buildplots, outpost plots, & expansion plots, but they will be Multiplayer only and I will do once the following of the mod is large enough to warrant more multi-player areas.

Mods are generally geared to single-player and I feel I must ensure that the single-player experience is the best that I can do. That is why there are no build plots.

As for personal use modding. I don't mind people modding the mod for their personal use only. At this point I do not give consent to puclically release mods based on RJ-RotWK. When I am finished I might allow others to base their mod off of mine as I would hate for others to have to go through all of the work that I did to mix BFME1 & 2.

Other items:

Commandpoints - How this is handled will be based on the type of map. The regular maps will be closer to the BFME2 style and BFME1 maps will be closer to static.

Mounted models - I have not seen those previously and I might include. Who do I give credit to those if they are for use still? I'll have to check, but this is the type of model I'd need for a mounted radagast and eagle-mounted Gandalf.

Nazguls - I've done the double mounted before and they are easy to do, but I wanted to do something that is a little more balanced. 7 or 9 nazguls that come with fellbeasts and can mount horses and walk can be really unbalanced especially in late game and WotR mode late games. What I would have liked to do is allow horse mount at level 1 and fellbeast at level 7, but it's near impossible to code. Most double mounts follow a circular pattern - foot>mount>fellbeast. If I did not allow fellbeast until 7 then you could not dismount from the horse until then.

The reason for this is a unit as far as I know can only have 1 mount template as there is only 1 enum that allows this and it can only be used once per model. There are replacemodel commands that I could use, but they do not retain timers, health etc. So for now, I've chosen the nazgul system that I implemented and described. My main goal is to provide all the nazgul, balanced and unique.

Boromir - I have thought about this. Currently Boromir combined with other hereos is already one of the best heroes in the game. Also, the only model I've seen that mounts Boromir does not have the best binding that I've seen and looks a little odd a times. I've mounted Aragorn in the 25 power of Rohan, and I might do more.

Thank you very much for your feeback. This is very important to me, so I thought I'd give you some of my reasoning for the choices that I've made. As for some items such as the build plot maps (which are perfect for LAN parties) and mounted Radagast/Gandalf, I'll be working on these after the next release. The next release is HUGE. 7 BFME1 maps, combo-hordes for all facions, fleshed out Rohan, Evil Men faction added, and so much more.

And please, remember that if you do personal modding it is for personal use only. If you make changes that you really like let me know and I could try to incorporate then into my mod if it fits.

Thank you again, and I hope I was able to provide some clarifiction.

Robert J.

Edited by robnkarla, 24 June 2007 - 11:04 PM.

[Sûlherokhh]

...
I would love to get "Guard" to work and other items as that was one aspect of gameplay in BFME1 that I felt was worsened in BFME2
...

Me too. I have an idea regarding the 'guard unit' thing, but the 'guard area' may be a bit harder to recover.

...
I have a couple of options that I will be looking into, but it is deeply coded into the AI for them to attack resource buildings. Threat levels, attack priorities really don't work. The only thing that I've found that works is armor %s and scalars. This though prevents the ability to attack buildings in general.

I've thought about having only forged blades and fire arrows be able to attack buildings. This will prevent early game resource building rushing, but the negative impact might be too much.
...

I did this for walls and melee units. I found it kind of stupid that melee units would wait before the walls, hacking at it, while being disintegrated by catapults. The FB/FA idea is not so bad. But i would like to have them generally only attack buildings if there is no other troop type around. Also buildings that have weapons should have a highter priority to be destroyed then resource buildings. I'll tell you if Naz and i come up with a working solution.

...
Nazguls - I've done the double mounted before and they are easy to do, but I wanted to do something that is a little more balanced. 7 or 9 nazguls that come with fellbeasts and can mount horses and walk can be really unbalanced especially in late game and WotR mode late games. What I would have liked to do is allow horse mount at level 1 and fellbeast at level 7, but it's near impossible to code. Most double mounts follow a circular pattern - foot>mount>fellbeast. If I did not allow fellbeast until 7 then you could not dismount from the horse until then.

The reason for this is a unit as far as I know can only have 1 mount template as there is only 1 enum that allows this and it can only be used once per model. There are replacemodel commands that I could use, but they do not retain timers, health etc. So for now, I've chosen the nazgul system that I implemented and described. My main goal is to provide all the nazgul, balanced and unique.
...

I found that out the hard way too, hehe. Once we are done with v2 i'll try a different approach. Instead of using the mountspecialpower for horses, i will try using a different modelcondition (USER_8 or something) which gets triggered by use of another module in place of the usual mount behavior. Something that will require the same prep time as mounting a horse. The horse and on foot models and anims are all in the same object anyway (or can be moved there), so they only have to be set to take precedence for the new modelcondition. The power should also change the armorset to mounted (or provide a fitting attributemodifier with the same effect). Same with the locomotor. Maybe the HeroMode modelcondition is also appropriate, if set to duration=99999999, but removed once the power is activated again. Best to disable MountFellbeast in mounted state, to prevent any conflicts with this new modelcondition. I like it better if they mount from foot and dismount before getting on another beast anyway.
Another way would be for them to activate the new mount power, triggering an upgrade (good for new armor, locomotors and weaponsets) which can in turn provide the new modelcondition (check the FortressEagle of the elves for that). Both upgrade and modelconditon can be removed in the same way.
Once this is done, all that is left to do is to do is replace all animation flags 'mounted' with the new modelconditon.

I'll see if it works when i get there. But if you want to try already, be my guest!

[robnkarla]

...
Me too. I have an idea regarding the 'guard unit' thing, but the 'guard area' may be a bit harder to recover...

I have not played around with the guards yet to see if I can recover anything, but it is on my list to do. (Along with BFME1 style hordes where they do not shift positions. Can wreak havoc on regeneration and combo hordes at times, but I can live with that for now)/

...But i would like to have them generally only attack buildings if there is no other troop type around. Also buildings that have weapons should have a highter priority to be destroyed then resource buildings. I'll tell you if Naz and i come up with a working solution...

Please let me know if you area able to come up with anything. To let you know what I've tested - Threat levels, -1 attack priorities for structures, percent changes for losing targets as well as a lower time window that they can lose their targets. I think there were a couple more, but I'm going to go through them all again at least a few more times to see if I missed anything.

It looks like the hard-coding is just for specific types as well. Archers will not always go suicidal against buildings...

...
I'll see if it works when i get there. But if you want to try already, be my guest!...

The HERO mode is an interesting option I had not tried, but so many areas to cover - mountable crushing, 3 locomotors. I will probably attempt something in the future, but not really for my mod. The other part about the two-option mount that I do not like is the fact it takes up 2 slots in the commandset. After Stances and mountings that leaves only three which would not be too bad except I wanted each nazgul to have their own unique power/identity which already takes up the 6th slot. I could put the passive abilities off the palantir, but I really don't care for "hidden" abilities that much.

Let me know if you are Nazgul make any headway on these thing and I'll do the same.

Robert J.

[lotrfan]

Hi

Thanks for reading and responding to my post and the giving me ur reasons behind wut u did.

I have some more feedback for ur mod. I think u will appreciate it very much as i have found more glitches.


Glitches:

1. I was playing as men. I versed arnor. The arnor ai came to attack my farm (as discussed in the previous post). I built a shooting tower for me to kill off the units and to give me power points (one of my favorite ways of gaining power points in BFME1), but THERE WAS NOTHING HAPPENING AROUND THE CIRCLE OF MY SPECIALS PALANTIR. Only when i ran over them with horses did my specials go up. Please fix this as i hope to gain a lot of specials like this.

2. The Arnor Faction that i was versing sent lorien pikes. I clicked on then, and there was no picture for their palantir.

3. I played the first map in the mission that had eomer. I had killed off the almost the whole hard army. I had overpopulated; 1100/800. I went around the map for half an hour. I built farms in almsot every place of the map. I couldn't find them. Luckily i saved a little before hand. It happened once more where the units disappeared. It was during the 3rd wave i think. The 3rd time i won. I think that they were killed off by creeps on the map, such as the troll. I believe this caused a glitch to occur. Please double check the code to see if anything would cause this glitch. (In general i have problems with missions where u have to kill off each and every single unit for this reason).


Suggestions:

1. BUILD PLOTS!!!

I still think build plots should be incorporated. I really miss them from BFME1. This is a major reason why i disliked BFME2. I think the idea for bases that u have is good, but build plots are better. From wut u said, u can still add build plots. The only problem is with the AI. So my question is, wut is wrong with adding buld plots?!?!?!?!

Let me explain,

Suppose u added build plots to the bases. The user would be able to use the build plots; the ai wouldn't. But there are builders, so how do we fix this? I suggest that initial, no army starts off with builders and there are only build plots. BUT, the ai has a starting upgrade (or so i think) similar to the upgrade that rohan has in BFME1 which changes it's commandset to build ent moots. I also happen to know that in BFME1, there is a place in the code which multiplies the damage/resoures for a hard army. I think it is 1.2 or something. So for every gold u would normally get, the hard army gets 1.2. This lead me to realize that the game must have some way to distinguish between human and AI.
I suggest that u give the ai an upgrade which will change the commandset for the main base to produce builders AND allow the ai to start off with 2 builders at the beginning.

So what is the difference now that all this has happend, and how can we fix it?

a) The ai will be able to build farms in the outer rim of the base.
Fix: Reduce the buld radius of farms to the border of the base
b) Farms to close to each other.
Fix: i believe u can find the answer to this by asking someone in the forums, but if u can't, on mevault, this first mod made for ROTWK was a resource mod which allows farms to be built anywhere at 100%. U can try looking in the code or asking him if u cant find the answer from this site. U will probably also want to make it so that the ai has to kill all farms in base in order to win.
c) Well basically everything is fixed in terms of 1v1, the only problem that will happen is that the ai base will probably look a bit sloppier, and might have an extra building, but that will make for an excellent challenge.
d) This next problem is only 1 for multiplayer. Once the ai takes over ur friends base if he loses, it will not be able to buy his base. The same goes for any maps with camps or outpost.
Fix: Shouldn't be a common problem, because usually if people play multiplayer:
a) They verse each other.
b) If they verse each other with ai guys on each team, if the ai helps u kill a base, the person would rather buy it than his ai partner.
c) If people are playing together against AI, and they happen to lose (noobs. lol) The person playing with them will quit, or appreciate the fact that they can get a base for themselves to help them verse tough ai.
d) VERY RARE. The perosn gets pissed off that the ai cant buy the base. Thats it.

So as u can see, this is a very rare problem, and one that we'll just have to live with for now.

e) This next one i'm afraid, is a problem that i haven't figured out a solution for, and that is if u plan on having farms around the map like BFME1. The ai wont be able to get them. The only fix i can think of to this to make it balanced is that for the specific maps which have extra farms and outposts around the map, is to restore the build radius of farms for the ai to the outer rim of thier base. I am ok with the new farm style in BFME2. The only problem i have with them is that sometimes they get too complex; they have some sort of bonus, or u can get units from some of them, but i can get used to this. I would also like to see a bit more of these farms on maps; preferably 2 per player, as in most multiplayer maps such as Old Brown Lands.

This post was a very long one, but i tried to explain as detailed as possible simple things u can do to fix the build plot issue.

1. Put build plots for each base (which the ai will not use).
2. Reduce the percentage radius for each farm so that they are all 100%.
3. Reduce the outer rim for the ai (from wut u have said it is not coded like this in the ini, but on a map specific basis. If that is the case, u can extend the outer rim only in those maps which have farms, camps, and outposts like in bfme1).
4. IMPORTANT, make sure that a person isn't defeated until all of their farms are taken out too. In bfme1 style maps where u have bfme1 farms, this may be a bit hard, but for most, if not all maps, the bfme2 system is good, so u might not have this problem



2. This is another problem, not just with ur mod, but with BFME2. For every farm u get, about after 3 farms or so, for every farm u get afterward, the money produced from each farm goes down by one. I believe this is an easily fixable problem.


3. I believe this was a change added to Rise of the Witch King. If u r fighting any battalion, then u turn away and try running, u get slower and take extra attack damage. I think this should be fixed a.s.a.p.

4. I think that the blacksmith should not have to be available in order to use upgrades for units. Once upgrades are purchased from a blacksmith, the blacksmith should be able to be deleted. It should not have to be taken up space in the base. The same should go for castles. If the main base is taken down, and u only have other buildings left, u should still be able to use specials. (I know that ur mod is based on the fact that if ur base is destroyed, u lose, but if it is an easy fix, it would be nice to put in the code now, for when it changes later, or if someone is playing a regular fortress map).

5. I think that elves should be able to build so sort of defense, like the dwarves have. They had nice defenses such as ents for their fortress, but i think for now, just shooting towers will do. I haven't check about the walls yet, but Angmar cant rebuild walls or gate if destroyed. I believe this is also the case for the elves. I know this might be difficult to make them rebuildable. If it is too dificult at this point, then forget this for now as it isn't a priority.

6. In the mission, when i first get a special, such as in the second map with Eomer, between helms deep and isengard, it takes over 5 minutes for healing to come back. Could u make it so that when u purchase a special in the mission, it comes immediatly or less time? I think this was the case with the BFME1 missions, so i think it is map specific.

7. The website that i am giving u is of a guy who works for EA Games. He has something in his mod which no one else has. The reason for this is because he used special software from EA to change this option. The option is the spell book. In his mod u have 12 spells instead of 8 for bfme 1. U have the same spell tree from he mission that u can use in multiplayer. I expect that u would like this very much. BFME2 has 16 specials in the spell tree for the mission. ROTWK doesn't. I am not sure if the same 16 spell carries over in the code of ROTWK, or how to access it from BFME2. The guy who made the mod for BFME1 is an excellent modder and as said before works for EA. Wut u can try to do is get the file buy opening it with final big, and then adding it to ur mod. The file is called Spellbook.apt or something. It is the only file that is not in a folder. It is a pretty big file. U can try to add this to ur mod and see if it does the same thing. In BFME1 this file replaces the 8 spell tree with the 12 spell tree allowing 12 spells like in the mission. It is coded in the same logic as the tutorial on this site in terms of prerequisites and stuff. I had fun chaning the spells i that he had to the spells that i wanted. It was easy. I already tried the flie with ROTWK. U can enter a game fine and start a game, but when u click on the spell book, a game crash. This may be because as stated before, in ROTWK there is no misson spell book. Only in BFME 2, OR, u may need a new file. If this is the case, i suggest u get in contact with Deezire, the owner of the site and of the mod. If u ask, he may make a working file for ROTWK. He works for EA and has access to their software. He cannot give u the software that he uses to change it, but he can make the file and give it to u. I think that it will be very much worth it to use 16 spells in the mission, and in the game. Here is the link to download the mod to see it for urself and experiment with. There are some other items in the mod which i will suggest later once i make a list of the changes.

http://www.deezire.n...o...nload&cid=5

I hope u really spend time considering and adding these changes. Most of these seem relatively simple and easy to do, and would make the game a whole lot better. Most of them seem like they need a couple lines changed or so, but u have to know where to look and wut to change. Based on the mod u've made, u seem to be an experianced modder, so it should be relatively easy for u. I really hope u put these changes, as i believe it will really enhance the gameplay for everyone. I think that u should like the changes and i hope that u add them.

Thanks for reading this long post. These are the most important changes listed so far. Some minor ones will come later. I think that the Nazgul idea will be interesting. It will be weird, but i think it might be good.

Oh, by the way, one more glitch. Castle gates for men never upgrade. LOL. I think it should be placed withing the upgrade for castle walls. If u need clarifaction on anything please post. Thanks again, and i hope u continue making ur mod great. I look forward for ur response to these suggestions.

Edited by lotrfan, 27 June 2007 - 07:47 AM.

[robnkarla]

Wow, that was a long post.

All right, let me see if I can wade through it all.

1) The not gaining pp from structures is a part of BFME2. I'm not sure if there is a way to remove this part. I've thought about looking into it to see if I could change this. It might not be possible by being part of the STRUCTURE kindof. If anyone knows, I'd be grateful.

2) I've added it to my towering bug/to-do list. I'll ensure by the next public release this will be fixed.

3) The Eastfold map as well as the eaves of Fangorn & Iron Hills have this sort of problem where units will go off hiding in corners of the map. I am working on scripts to prevent this, or make clean-up easier.

Suggestions:

Build plots - First let me tell you this. At some point I will be adding BFME1 maps with buildplots, camps, outposts, farms, etc. At first there will be no AI and will be meant for multiplayer use only.

As for your suggestions about the AI:

general - I could probably come up with something where the AI will get a builder. The biggest problem is the layout of the bases. Because of the layout of the castles, the .bse files used to tell the AI where to build will not work exactly right as the AI can only build where told, often times there is a wall and the AI will not build the structures. This means custom AI bse files which I've done.

Second problem, when defining a .bse file each file will only work for a specific rotation of the castle so each rotation needs it's own .bse file. Third, the same .bse file in this fashion can only be used once - either for all maps which will not work or for one map. This means that if there are 10 factions - a 1v1 map requires 20 files. A 8 player map requires 80! .bse files. It's not too difficult, but time consuming. Just for 7 maps I have 200+ .bse files.

Lastly, which can prevent this. When the fortress is built, the build plots take up geometric space in game. Just by the fact of being there they can prevent buildings from being built on top of them, severly limiting the amount of building that can be built. The way around this would be for the AI to build their one set of Castles and the Player to build another. While I could probably come up with ways to handle it, it's a huge undertaking which is why when I provide maps, they will be without AI. It would be a mixture of the two - the new bases for the AI and the old for the player.

For the items mentioned:
a) Easily done
b) Could easily do something here to work on this. Placement of the Farm Templates and other items such as money_range etc.
c) This would not bother me either
d) The fact that the AI would not build expansion castles does not bother me. I've rarely played these multiplayer games where we've lost a castle. If we did, we restarted and tried again.

In general, I will be providing MP maps for online play and LAN parties that are PURE BFME1 maps with the new castles. There will be no AI to start, and when I finish the campaign I'll work on the AI for these maps.

Other items mentioned:

Decrease in Farm efficiency - this is easy to code, and it is not a matter of can I do it, but it has to do with how it affects balance. I'm going to be tinkering with the numbers, but I won't promise that these will be changed drastically. If you would like to change them, the value %'s are found in the playertemplate.ini file.

Slow retreat - I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, but it sounds like this is something I would want to keep. If you are running from a battle and someone is actively hacking you, it could slow you down. Also, it might have to do with the speed of the units. If gondor soldiers run from Uruk-Hai you will die as each unit has it's own speed.

Blacksmith and other buildings - This is something that I will look into. I want to keep this or the BFME2 style maps (default), so I will look to see if I can do this through a map.ini. If not I can think of quite a few ways to handle this in the BFME1 style maps. You are right, it should not take up space in these maps due to the limited amount. As for the when the base is destroyed - you lose. This is slowly changing. I'm playing with different ways to make this work like BFME1 through scripting.

Elven defences - I am very worried about the defensive capabilities. Their silvernthorne arrows with a height benefit can be completely overpowering. That is why for now they do not have the benefit of defensive structures. The one thing that I am planning on doing is give them a postern gate sort of object. Their outer walls can be rebuilt, but I will allow them to rebuild the inner platforms in the future. As for Angmar's wall upgrades that are destroyed. I will come up with some way for rubble to be available for these.

Powers in the campaign - This is an effect of WotR. I do not know if I can fix this. It was changed to prevent 1 minute battles. I am aware of this and I am basing a lot of the maps around this fact.

As for the power tree - While it would be fun to have more powers in the spellbook, I'm not sure if really want to, at least for this campaign. Reasoning - for me this would mean that the final battles would just flat out have to be insanely scripted to account for the additional spells. (Counter attacks, larger battles for each of the 25pp powers cast, etc.) I really like the idea of fewer spells and more battles with troops and heroes. If I ever change my mind I'll look into adding the campaign spellbook. But here is something interesting that I have not mentioned before. The way I handle the spellbook now is through map.ini. Which mean my spellbook is completely flexible map to map. One map I could have army of the dead, the next flood, etc. I like this approach honestly better, where the player has a set of spells that are specifically meant for each map. I have not expanded on this as much as I'd like, but it is something for the future.

As for the larger spellbook in skirmish battles. Again I'm hesitant. I really like battles that are more troops based rather than powers based. In this aspect, I like BFME1 almost better than BFME2. It just feels like there is more strategy, especially with level 10 units and so forth.

I hope I covered each area. Thank you very much for your suggestions. They are definitely heard,
Robert J.

[lotrfan]

Thanks, i am glad that u are going to make maps like this. I am glad that u provided reasoning behind ur decisions. I have already started testing the build plots for men in my mod. I still have some work to do. I have alreadty found wierd things happening when i try to put them in (glitch from ea), such as the fact that after u align everything u have to add 45 degrees to each angle for the building plot. At least the objects build right. The actual build plots themselves look unaligned even though they are aligned right.

I have a request from u robnkarla, or anyone. I need unique build plots for elves, dwarves, goblins, angmar, arnor. I also need them CODED IN THE INI ALREADY, as i do not know how to put in new objects but only utilize them. Anyone who has models, please let me know. I suggest that robnkarla puts it in his next mod in order to make it available to use. I believe this easy to put in for people who know how to do this so i ask that they put it in.

I also ask that u update ur website also that has the unit page. It is really nice. Mevault and ea and other website has the pics/description of the units. I believe that they are available to use for free due to the fact that they are on many websites that describe lotr.

I suggest that i get these models a.s.a.p. so i can begin to place them.

I thank anyone in advance for their help and ask that robnkarla put it in his next mod soon.

[robnkarla]

If you want to wait, I'll have the build plot map(s) available within the next couple weeks. Also, I have unique build plots for all factions except Arnor, which I will do soon. (Including Rohan, Harad, Rhun).

As for the web site, this is my last priority. I will update the web site with all the units, new and old when I get time. As I want to put the stats in my mod, I was waiting for the balance to finish before doing this.