163 replies to this topic

[Bard]

To Olorin: Seems like a banner+Forged Blades/Warchant type of upgrade. Anything more subtle?

To elfhelm: RA has something similar to that blizzard/thunderstorm power, though of lesser magnitude (for now).

Keep them coming folks.

[Barak]

Just some ideas for Isengard.
How about something like 'barricade'? It would create a spike barrier in a certain area. It would offer defensive protection and something else to counter cavalry with
Also something like 'track' which is cast on an enemy unit/bnattalion. Then you can then see whatever that unit can see so that you can hunt them down

[MorgoththeMight]

wouldn't that track thing better be called spy: if you can see what they see... I like your barricade idea, but I haven't got a clue how it could work... Maybe something like the 'lone tower' summon in bfme 2, and it would be garrisonable, but not shooting out of its own.. just like how you can garrison units on barricades and near trees and stuff in imperial glory... if anyone of you guys would have that game you know what I mean here

[Olorin]

OK, not overly original, but it would offer a big advantage: 'Crafts of War' - makes all Isengard siege machines (ladders, mines, etc.) a lot cheaper (a price that works for balance obviously). Maybe call it something else; 'Fires of Industry'? I dunno, just something like that.

I think this might've been asked before, but will Saruman have a power where he summons a lightning-strike or something?

[Olorin]

Mmm, I like the sound of a barricade for them...but not in the form of pikemen. I'm confident it's possible to summon structures, so maybe some crude Uruk 'fortress'-type structure with spikes on the outside or something. Seriously.

[Nertea]

Saruman won't have a lightning spell - he's oriented to evolve from an attack to a support hero as he gains levels.

[Uruk King]

So if Saruman isn't going to have a Lightnng Storm Spell as his best power, then is he going to make up with a great leadership power, like you said about evolving from a support hero? Or are players given the option to keep him an attack hero or to advance make him a support hero?

[Nertea]

It's just that his initial powers, fireball and wizard blast, are combat based powers, but the ones he gets as he goes up in levels make him more useful around the base, though you could still use him offensively. So that way we get a good bit of contrast between Saruman and Gandalf - as Gandalf gets more powerful, he is more suited to running around with troops fighting the forces of evil, while Saruman in content to remain in Orthanc scheming and the like.

Anyways, the problem that I have with huge lightning storms is that they're not really original (woo nuclear weapon) and aren't canonical.

Edited by Nertea, 13 February 2008 - 08:08 AM.

[Olorin]

So that could leave the Thunderstorm power open for a Spellbook power. Just speculating, because that was a cool part in the movie, and it was a major event (the Fellowship choosing to go through Moria instead).

[Thorin]

Anyways, the problem that I have with huge lightning storms is that they ... aren't canonical.

When Gandalf and the Balrog fought there was said to be much lightning, so much that songs would have been sung had any been there to see it.

[mike_]

That [storm] was probably generated by two Maia going "mano a mano" in direct confrontation...but that was kind of a one-off deal, so I agree with Nert and everyone else in saying that it's not very canonical.
Cheers,
-mike

[Thorin]

That [storm] was probably generated by two Maia going "mano a mano" in direct confrontation...but that was kind of a one-off deal, so I agree with Nert and everyone else in saying that it's not very canonical.
Cheers,
-mike

Oh yes, I agree. I mean, excluding every single sword fight mentioned in the books, there was no mention of any sword fights! The war of words between Finrod and Sauron only happened once... It was a one off deal, so that didn't happen either so isn't canonical. Frodo only journeyed to Mount Doom once, and that was definitely a one-off deal, so that didn't happen either. Yeah, so I agree. Because things happen once, they don't happen, and thus aren't canonical.

You can't just exclude something for the purpose of it 'only happening once'. That's increadibly absurd. The fact is - it's there, and it is canonical.

Edited by Thorin, 20 April 2008 - 05:31 PM.

[mike_]

You mean Finrod and Morgoth.
Anyway...what exactly are the chances of Gandalf and the Balrog facing off in direct combat? The sole reason they fought was because Gandalf was forced to go through Moria - which was the Balrog's abode.
I'm not saying that because it only occured once makes it non-canonical - I'm saying that it's unrealistic to have random thunderstorms rolling across the battlefield.
This is getting off-topic, however.
Cheers,
-mike

[Thorin]

You mean Finrod and Morgoth.

No, I mean Finrod and Sauron. Right before Finrod and Beren were taken prisoner by Sauron.

Anyway...what exactly are the chances of Gandalf and the Balrog facing off in direct combat? The sole reason they fought was because Gandalf was forced to go through Moria - which was the Balrog's abode.

How on earth can you say what are the chances? Considering maybe about 5 people in all Middle-earth had a realistic chance of beating the Balrog means that, as Gandalf is one of those five, inevitably the chances are rather higher than you may initially expect.

I'm not saying that because it only occured once makes it non-canonical

No, that's precisely what you're saying. Keep backpedalling all you want, but I'll quote it to help you:

You wrote: but that was kind of a one-off deal ... it's not very canonical.

You wrote exactly what you're saying you didn't - that because it was a one off deal it's not canonical.

- I'm saying that it's unrealistic to have random thunderstorms rolling across the battlefield.
This is getting off-topic, however.
Cheers,
-mike

You can say that now all you want, the fact remains that's not what you said before. You said it wasn't canonical because it was a one off deal. And that's categorically wrong. It's probably not realistic - you're right there - because Gandalf would only use his 'true' powers when he was the only one around who was strong enough to defeat the enemy (Witching at the Great Gate, Balrog, Nazgul). But just because he wouldn't use his 'power' to defeat random orc 86421, doesn't mean he couldn't. But still - you said it wasn't canonical because it was a one off deal. And that's wrong.

[mike_]

You're misinterpretting me - I'm saying it isn't very canonical for Gandalf to march down to the West Gate, crawl down to the depths of Khazad-Dum, and fight the Balrog just because. It also isn't very canonical for the Balrog to pop out of a random hole in the ground.
And I apologize for being incorrect about Finrod and Sauron - I wasn't thinking of that.
My...this has gotten off-topic
Cheers,
-mike

[Thorin]

You're misinterpretting me - I'm saying it isn't very canonical for Gandalf to march down to the West Gate, crawl down to the depths of Khazad-Dum, and fight the Balrog just because. It also isn't very canonical for the Balrog to pop out of a random hole in the ground.
And I apologize for being incorrect about Finrod and Sauron - I wasn't thinking of that.
My...this has gotten off-topic
Cheers,
-mike

Canon means it happened in the book. Lightning was used in the fight between Gandalf and the Balrog. I didn't misinterpret what you said - you either accidently wrote down what you wanted to say wrongly or poorly, or you thought at the time of writing that because something happened once it isn't in the canon, and have since backpedalled.

It is perfectly canonical for Gandalf to march down to the West Gate, go down to the depths of Moria and fight the Balrog. Why is it canonical? Because it happened!

If it happened in the book, it is canon. What chances there are of 'x' happening on the battlefield or otherwise is impossible to say - but we know that Gandalf has the power to manipulate lightning. With what you wrote firstly, I responded correctly. To be honest, I'm not overly bothered, it's just when people seem to refute what is categorically true, it gets on my nerves!

And if you weren't thinking of Finrod and Sauron, what were you thinking of? Finrod and Morgoth never met, never mind had a war of words

[mike_]

Yes, it seems that I worded my response(s) incorrectly.
I was thinking of Felegaund (?) and Morgoth fighting before the Gate of Thangouradrim (? Morgoth's fortress in the First Age).
So...yes. This is the product of a two-fold misunderstanding again, I apologize.
Cheers,
-mike

[Nertea]

But... what's the point? Seriously, as I know it we were talking about lightning storms for ISENGARD not Gandalf.

[Thorin]

Yes, it seems that I worded my response(s) incorrectly.
I was thinking of Felegaund (?) and Morgoth fighting before the Gate of Thangouradrim (? Morgoth's fortress in the First Age).

Thangodrim, yes, and Felagund is Finrod. He's called Finrod Felagund. He was given the name Felagund later by the Dwarves. You're thinking of Fingolfin, Finrod Felagund's uncle, who fought with Morgoth.

Nertea, I'm not particularly talking about the suitability of storm-powers or the like, but was simply correcting a misunderstanding that lightning used as a weapon isn't canonical, when clearly, it is

[MasterSilver]

Wow, Thorin, you and elfhelm just had your own little battle of words. I don't know if it would look strange to have random storm systems moving across the map because they are powers. Saromaun helped make the storm on the mountain worse in the fellowship right. Sauron also had some control over the elements and Elrond too. So I suppose it is very canonical. But the real question is do we really want to make the game into more of wizards duel than an epic battle. I think that having weather in your favor when you are about to have a pitch battle either when on the attack of in defense is fine, and that the home team should ussially get the terrian advantage. For instance let's say that in the area immediatly around your base elven woods and such powers don't fade. Also only allowing weather powers sparingly, after all powers should only give you an edge they shouldn't win the game for you, that is what armies of for. So, there is my two cents, and as for the battle of words between Thorin and elfhelm, I'd have to say Thorin won this one, lol. Peace