19 replies to this topic

[Hostile]

http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/6769671.stm
So a writer writes a book named Satanic Verses. One of MANY books he has written. Riots broke out, flags burned, fatwah for his death decreed. Yet he only simply wrote a fictional book.

This results in a man living in secrecy for a decade despite the fact he's written ALOT more than that one book. So we tolerated it and put him in hiding to protect freedom of press.

So now this man is knighted for his written works. (Not for Satanic Verses) and now "official governments" (Pakistan and Iran) speak out about the insensitivity of such a move.

Insensitivity...I can't really sum up the hypocrisy of that single word in regards to this situation.

http://news.bbc.co.u...sia/6766569.stm
So starts the rhetoric and the burning of the flags.

So it must be fully noted. You cannot say ANYTHING that may insult a muslim.

You may have fun with Christians, Jews, whites, fair game. You must understand, you may not under any circumstance insult a faith called Islam. Or they wil burn your flag.

And we all know Monty Python summed it up when they said "You don't have a flag?! Every nation has a flag. You're not even a nation unless you have a flag"

They must have been watching that episode and wrote it in the Quran, because burning flags ROCKS the minds of Islamists.

So are we supposed to be "influenced" or "bullied" because the UK decided to Knight someone (which is stupid but...) for written works and because this author also wrote Satanic Verses?

So what's next, rioting for the assasination of the Queen of England? They already called for the death of the Pope?

And we all know why she Knighted him. *cough abducted 15 british serviceman*

Now look at this as I do. UK gets 15 soldiers abducted, they respond with knighting an author sentenced to die a stoning death by THEM. Then they response with riots and flag burning.

They're fucking crazy...

Western Media can't even handle the crazy level they are at as a civilization. We surgar coat alot of things. These people are advocating VIOLENCE to the top leaders and basicly against ANYONE who is non muslim.

So this person writes a fictional book, and now lives hidden, and I suppose the Queen of England will have to also?

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of being pushed around by them. And honestly, I'm thinking they feel the SAME way.

[CodeCat]

What are you so concerned about? Let them riot if they want. Let them burn your coloured piece of cloth. They're not rioting in your country, so what's the problem?

[Soul]

Code has a point, let them go insane in there country, they'll eventually get bored of it and bitch about something else.

[narboza22]

I think the problem more involves the fact that there are now national governments getting pissed about Rushdie's knighthood. If it was just your everyday fanatical Muslim flag burning it would be different, but when the governments of countries are supporting it and bitching to the UK about it, I think its more serious. I mean, these governments are supposed to (at least imo) maintain some resemblance of rationality, and now they are basically telling the UK who they can and cannot knight? I don't understand how they expect to be taken seriously on other issues that actually matter, when everyone in the world will be remembering the fatwas they issue, and the inane complaining they do.

And another point Hostile made that I agree with is that Islam needs to catch up to the 21st century. Shows like South Park rip the crap out of Judaism, Christianity, homosexuality.... and none of those groups go ape shit about it. Sure they might get and even condemn it, but they do it in a reasonable and rational manner. After 2000 years, Catholics have finally gotten off their high horse and accepted that there are people who are not Catholic and there for all the BS Catholic rules do not apply. You don't see hits put out on people who eat meat on Fridays during Lent do you? Its about time that Islam followed suit and stopped trying to enforce their BS rules on the rest of the world.

[Hostile]

What are you so concerned about? Let them riot if they want. Let them burn your coloured piece of cloth. They're not rioting in your country, so what's the problem?

It's because people in positions of muslim authority are calling some people to be executed. And there are crazies in those countries where these people live who would act on it. That makes it a worldwide irresposible move.

Like the Pope for example. Among MANY more. Like the Danish, what the heck did they do? They published some funny cartoons and the muslim world went apeshit.

See it's not just something they do in thier countries.

[Soul]

Ok now I'm beginning to see the big picture now, there getting pissed over something so small and are trying to enforce there BS on others, they should stop living in the past and move forward into the future like everyone else.

[CodeCat]

It might help if people just stopped giving them attention and blowing things out of proportion. People calling islam a threat worry me more than the muslims themselves.

[Kazyumi]

People calling islam a threat worry me more than the muslims themselves.

I disagree with you on that one.

[Cheshire Fox]

You two...need to get different avatars.

[duke_Qa]

i also worry about those saying Muslims are a threat constantly. its not like we aren't aware that there are fundamentalistic fanatics around that does alot of shit against those that they don't like.

theres nothing wrong in saying that the fatwa on Rushdie and the people endorsing it are asses that needs to be looked down upon by the modern world. but its vital that one doesn't look upon every single Muslim as a flag-burning comic-hating, Rushdie-killing suicide bomber.

i would rather say fundamental Arabic islamists or something, because thats more fitting to the people we want to hit with this criticism. if that definition is used i can totally endorse most of what hostile has to say about them because its limited to a group of people that has very little left over for us in the western world.

[Hostile]

Of course it's muslim extremists. This is assumed. What also needs to made a point of is the muslims moderates fail to reign in thier own crazies.

So on some level, they also have to held accountable.

[Cheshire Fox]

You will regret the way you worded that, methinks.

[CodeCat]

Hostile, I don't see you doing anything to rein in the crazies of christianity either, so don't tell others to do what you wouldn't do yourself.

[MSpencer]

If someone exploded a bomb on his body, he would be right to do so unless the British government apologizes and withdraws the "sir" title.

And this, coming from a government minister? Can you imagine if Condoleezza Rice called for a suicide bombing attack against Noam Chomsky? Very similar...
It's just more proof that we're not dealing with people that have the same mentality as westerners. Sure, some do, but many don't, and some of those people are quite dangerous.

[duke_Qa]

i would probably look upon it as us saying we want to get Osama no matter the amount of firepower used to attack his followers.

we don't like Osama, they don't like Rushdie. if we were to defeat Osama, it would be a blow to fundamentalists, but someone would step up and continue his work. if someone was to blow up Rushdie, it would be a blow to the western worlds work in changing the culture in the middle east, but it would continue.

in the end, it will be hard for the fundamentalists to blow up every criticizer of Islam, the same way it would be hard for us to moderate every angry fundamental islamist in the world.

Of course it's muslim extremists. This is assumed. What also needs to made a point of is the muslims moderates fail to reign in thier own crazies.

So on some level, they also have to held accountable.

basically a catch 22 you got there. not all muslims are suicide-bombers, but since the moderate muslims arent running around stopping every single angry suicide bomber they can't expect any different treatment than the suicide bombers.

as the others said, it wasnt the best way to put it. it basically means as long as there are poor muslims (which there are many of) with no hope and only fanatism to give them a meaning, we will help cause more loss of hope.

[narboza22]

we don't like Osama, they don't like Rushdie. if we were to defeat Osama, it would be a blow to fundamentalists, but someone would step up and continue his work. if someone was to blow up Rushdie, it would be a blow to the western worlds work in changing the culture in the middle east, but it would continue.

What? Osama is responsible for thousands of innocent deaths. How many people has Rushdie killed? Get real...

[Hostile]

My God people, do I have to spell out every little detail of what I mean every single time I state any statement over and over again?

One does not treat muslim extremists the same as holding muslim moderates accountable for thier crazies.

basically a catch 22 you got there. not all muslims are suicide-bombers, but since the moderate muslims arent running around stopping every single angry suicide bomber they can't expect any different treatment than the suicide bombers.

This is a generalization that is incorrectly assumed. Are you suggesting killing moderate muslims simply because they don't reign in thier crazies? That would be really stupid to assume I meant such. Sometimes common sense approach is assumed.

Hostile, I don't see you doing anything to rein in the crazies of christianity either, so don't tell others to do what you wouldn't do yourself.

Seems this job is already filled, so I'll assume the one blasting muslim extremists. You chose christianity, I chose Islam, go figure. When was the last time I blasted anyone for attacking christianity?

See I have no sympathy. Because people attack christianity all the time. And that's just the way it is. But when I attack islamic extremist and choose to hold moderates accountable. I'm surrounded by people who say I'm biased.

You can defend the muslim extremists all you want, while bashing christians. I don't care. Defending the islamists while bashing christians while proclaiming athiestic idealogies is simply hypocritical.


Diplomacy needs to worked out with the moderates. This is what I mean by accountability. Moderate Islam needs to regain control of the situation. They need to lead Islam into the 19th century.

[CodeCat]

Seems this job is already filled, so I'll assume the one blasting muslim extremists. You chose christianity, I chose Islam, go figure. When was the last time I blasted anyone for attacking christianity?

I chose christianity? What makes you think that? I just bash all morons equally, no matter where they're from.

You can defend the muslim extremists all you want, while bashing christians. I don't care. Defending the islamists while bashing christians while proclaiming athiestic idealogies is simply hypocritical.

Good thing I'm not defending the muslim extremists or proclaiming atheistic ideologies then.

[Hostile]

Hostile, I don't see you doing anything to rein in the crazies of christianity either, so don't tell others to do what you wouldn't do yourself.

It appears to me that you chose to focus on christians. Which is your perogative. I decided the muslim extremists were more important to focus on for me. I really didn't realize the christian attrocities were AS bad from your perspective.

Now if you brought up the subject to bring light to christian attorcities in this modern world against the rest of the world. Please feel free to start you own thread in HOP about the issue. I'm sure you'll get alot of love.

Be sure to cite it with good resources for research purposes.

The "beat the christian room" is down the hall and on the left. Try to keep on topic please...

[CodeCat]

You're still twisting my words to victimise yourself. I'm not attacking christianity, I'm attacking any moron that comes past. If I just happen to be attacking christianity a lot that just means there's a lot of morons in christianity.