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#361 Funbomb

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 08:14 PM

I think there was one, I think he died and his spirit went to the Halls of Mandos. With his noble deeds when facing Morgoth he was re-embodied.

Sources:
http://tolkiengatewa...ment_and_Return (The Better One)
<a href="
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Glorfindel" target="_blank">http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Glorfindel</a> (The Not So Good One)

EDIT: Just read Yoda's. You might be right but this one is more known.


P.S.- WHY AM I STARTING NEW PAGES!!!! I ALREADY DID 2 TODAY!!!!
lol :p :p :)

Edited by Funbomb, 01 May 2008 - 08:15 PM.

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#362 Dalf32

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 08:32 PM

there was the Glorfindel who slayed the balrog in Cirith Thoronath after the fall of Gondolin in the First Age, and then there was the Glorfindel who helped fight angmar in the Battle of Fornost and protect Frodo (and company) on their way to Rivindell in the Third Age. both Glorfindels had golden hair and were most likely of the house of Finarfin (and were both obviously elven), but as has been said already it is unkown whether or not they were the same person (which is entirely possible as elves cannot die by natural causes, i.e. age or disease).
one would think that an elf so great would deserve a bit more recognition thorughout the rest of his life (assuming they are one in the same) but we cannot be sure; i think, for our purposes, it would be safe enought to simply assume that they both are the same.

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#363 tylerman29

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 12:10 AM

of course they are the same person he is a bad a** :p
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#364 mike_

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 01:17 AM

Yes...when Frodo wore the Ring for a time, he saw Glorfindel "for what he truly was", an Elf Lord revealed in wrath - "beautiful and terrible at the same time." Seeing as he also wore it around Bombadil, Legolas, Aragorn, etcetera, and this event never occured with any of them, it's safe to assume Glorfindel was something beyond your average hero - as has been stated elsewhere, a reborn Noldoli with the spirit of a Maia.
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#365 Myrdin

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 11:10 AM

then i dont see any problem guys :xd:

lets say there WERE two Glorfindels, . . . . then one could go to Arnor ( instead Elrond as late game hero 5000 resources), and another one stay by Elfs, and get little buff, to mid game hero ( 2500 rescour. )

its good compromis, for those who want him go there, and for those who want him stay
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#366 Devon

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 11:14 AM

The first Glorfindel had nothing to do with arnor :xd: The arnor one and third age one were definatly the same.

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#367 Myrdin

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 11:22 AM

i newer said, Arnor should get the first one, as much as i care he can go to elfs, and arnor can get the second one, that fought in Angmar war.

actually i too dont believe it were two poeple, ( for as someone mentioned elfs, live long, soo its high chance its the same ), but i proposed thta as some kind of . . . . balance ( between the two waves of players who want him with Arnor, and others who want him with Elfs ).

btw. i know ( i read it somewhere here, but cant find it again ), that you guys wonder a bit why im mixing W and V :p
thats coz i like W more, soo i tend to use it even ( v lol ) if there just normal V. kinda weird eh ? :) but hey, who doesnt have some weird habbit, :xd:
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#368 myster

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 04:21 PM

Also...it's never been confirmed that the 3rd age glorfindel is the same as the one who vanquished the balrog.


nor has it ever been disproved :xd: and i thought his son also thought he was the same? don't know for sure. Even so i like the idea of both glorfindels being the same =)

#369 Srg Insane

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 05:25 PM

i dont beleive that there were two glorfindels, many sources on the net insist that both glorfindels were the same person, and you dont half to be dumb to know that both glorfindels are the same person.
Theres evidence of Glorfindel coming back from the undying lands, if you dont beleive me look it up on wikipedia or look at any tolkien fan site. Over all i think it would be very stupid to not have them as the same person, Glorfindel can be a ring bearer, and Arnors strongest hero.

#370 Myrdin

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 06:24 PM

did i ever argued, about that ?
im not " dumb ", and i too think they are the same person.
I TOO would love to see Glorefindel in Arnor . . .

. . . sigh, but i dont think they will move ( and buff ) him, there :(

but the thing is, . . . . we dont know what the staff will do with him ( i can good imagine yoda, saing - Glorefindel will stay by elfs then add - :xd: , and finish it with some good reason ) - no offense, im saing this becouse you are kinda of " speaker " who ussually responds to unsayd ( or said ) questions :p soo were kinda recognize you as kinda like " captain " in here ( of course then Rob would be General or something like that

Edited by Myrdin, 02 May 2008 - 06:28 PM.

"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#371 Srg Insane

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 12:13 AM

Myrdin calm down lol, your not dumb that post wasnt supposed to be offensive, RJ stated that he would be with Arnor and RJs word is Law, so hes going to be in Arnor. However i think that he should replace Elrond, as the 5000 mark Hero.

#372 Myrdin

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 09:51 AM

well whatever you say, i newer even got heated up - if i would i would type something much more . . . dunno offensive ?!
as for Elrond - no matter what, if he stays the same as he is i dont like him with Arnor.

if you guys would eventually change Elrond ( in " that " time he fought many battles and was more of a warior then during the Fellowship, i think he shoulg get : Different skin - last alliance battle one, Diferent abilities : More ofensive and self buffing ones, and lastly he should give you the touch that " this is Elrond when he fought during LA war " and " This is Elrond too, but he looks calmer, becouse he evenutally lived in peace since then ( Elf one - refering to the time of Fellowship ).

. . . but still think, Glorefindel should replace him in Arnor :p
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#373 Nothingness

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 02:09 AM

Just to settle the confusion over the two glorfindels, the one referred to after the fall of Gondolin died in a fight against a balrog in the mountain pass. both of them fell into the great chasm and the eagle Thorondor bore him out of the chasm. The burried him near by. Its stated in the Silmarillion.
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#374 mike_

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 02:30 AM

Correct. The first Glorfindel's body was broken in the chasm, burried beside the road of on a mountain, and eventually consumed by the Sea along with all of Belierend (sp?).
However, a little-known concept of the Lord of the Rings is a being's "fea", their inner being - their mind, principles, and otherworldly powers (especially for Noldoli and Maia).
It appears that if a being performed a deed of enough valour and good intent in their physical life, then they may be "reborn" into Aman again - this time with a greater purpose. This is seen once, of course, with Gandalf. His slaying of the Balrog of Morgoth, combined with his commitment to his previous mission to aid the Free in overthrowing Sauron, was enough to grant his return to Middle-earth in the guise of Gandalf the White, Chief of the Istari.
Thus, it's easily possible that Glorfindel's sacrifice in defeating another Balrog - in the protection of thousands of innocent refugees of Gondolin - was enough to earn his spot among the Maiar as well.
Or at least, I like to think so :xd:
EDIT: What's with Thorondor arriving to save Elf Lords a second too late? Same thing with both Glorfy and Fingolfin.. :xd:
Cheers,
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Edited by elfhelm.., 04 May 2008 - 02:33 AM.


#375 Zyzzyva

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 03:11 AM

Well, From what I understand thats half correct. The Ainur (Valar and Maiar) can't die. Period. The body/shape they are in can perish, as seen by Saruman, Gandalf, and Sauron, but their spirit will live on. Normally they would return to Valinor to be reimbodied/reimbody themselves (although, as seen by Sauron, they can do it themselves elsewhere, albeit very slowly - when he slowly builds up his form in Mordor after his "death" in the fall of numenor). Goodly Maiar do this, and I think gandalf was not so much reborn as sent back to Middle Earth instead of returning to valinor as normal. The corrupted Maiar, on the other hand, are rejected and instead are swept away (see Saruman's death - his spirit rises up in a cloud and looks west, but is blown away and dispearses) to rejoin their master Melkor in the Void. So, in the last battle talked about in some Tolkien works, likely the Balrogs, Saruman, and Sauron will likely reappear to fight by Melkor's side when he finally breaks free of the Void.
Elves are a different matter. Their gift as the the firstborn is that they cannot die in the conventional means. Of course their body can die in war or grief or diease, but their spirits are gathered in the halls of Mandos in Valinor. They cannot leave the world. They, unlike the Maiar, have no power to shapeshift/form a new body, and can be reimbodied only if the Valar do it for them. This is what would have happened to Glorfindel. A powerful elven lord innocent of the Kinslaying was sent back to aid the elves remaining in Middle Earth. I would suspect Glorfindel would be one of few like that. Certainly none of the royal line of the Noldor were innocent of the Kinslaying, and I doubt other heros of the first age, such as Ecthelion, were either.
Only men have the gift of death, the only race to be able to be released from the circles of the world, and elves envy them for that freedom, though the men themselves view it as more of a curse

Edited by Zyzzyva, 04 May 2008 - 03:14 AM.

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Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not. It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope. Well, let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.
-Gandalf

#376 mike_

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 03:13 AM

Sums it up perfectly.

#377 Myrdin

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 09:48 AM

may i throw in a question ? :xd: i wondered about this for loong now, and joined few LOTR forums, few were speaking about this too.

but either i newer noticed, or i just didnt find it, or maybe tolkien newer said anything about it :

The thing is - What will happen to the souls of men, after their die ( in Middlearth- Tolkiens world ) :

any one know something about this ? I kinda like to think, that they will take side by their ancestors, in some place ( either giant hall with their god, where are tables alway full and mead drops down in the horns - Vikings, or they be reborn into new life soo the sould may get more experience - Tibet/Budhism, . . . . or what . . (dont want to speak more about diferent kinds of " deathland " or undervorld" of each culture, it was just for example )

becouse during siege of MT, ganadalf tells pipin about some place full of green grass, light, etc etc. and pipin says " That doesnt sound soo bad " ( or something like this )
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#378 Zyzzyva

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 10:26 AM

No one knows. It is the gift of men as the Secondborn of Iluvutar to be able to leave the circles of middle earth, unlike any other creature, but the elves and men do not know what happens to them next, and if the Ainur know they aren't talking (and they in all likelyhood do know because they were witness to the music telling the tale of the earth). So men see it as a sort of curse and long for the life of the immortal elves, and elves, tied to the world forever, long for the release of the gift of men. Its never stated exactly what happens to dwarves and hobbits, but the dwarves believe their creater Aule gathers them into a seperate part of Mandos. This fits with Gandalfs description as it seems to be refering to seeing Valinor (and he is speaking to a hobbit). I can't remember if that is in LotR or just a film thing.

Edit: Although in the last battle legend, I believe Turin returns to be the one to kill Morgoth, as he was the one who suffered the most from him, so obviously at least Iluvutar knows where they go and can bring them back

Edited by Zyzzyva, 04 May 2008 - 10:29 AM.

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Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not. It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope. Well, let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.
-Gandalf

#379 Myrdin

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 02:17 PM

hmm interesting, maybe theyre go to iluwathar directly or to some place he created, well at least this is one of the open " discussion " tolkien left to us :xd:
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#380 Guest_The Black Goldfish_*

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 09:21 AM

What about Earnur from the ROTWK epilogue? he may be gondorian, but he's part of Arnorian history. and as it is now, he's "vacant"




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