769 replies to this topic

[Scryer]

w8 guys i kinda lost the track ?

wtf ?!, were speaking about Eye as power, or eye from Gorgonoth spire fotress upgrade ?

and dont make it look in enemy base all the time if not in battle, thats kinda gay, coz he wont be able to suprise you with anything ( pretty imba, perm wisibility of enemy ).

/Agreed.

If anything it could be a hero power that increases the Eye's vision so that it could look into the enemy's base. But I strongly think that you shouldn't be allowed to constantly spy into the enemy's base. I don't know what this whole idea is on the Eye being a hero but two things:

1. What will you be replacing the Ring power "Eye of Sauron" with?
2. How would it gain levels?

On the Ringwraith idea, someone else mentioned that their sense of the ring should be limited. I highly agree with this. But I think that they should not suddenly switch into "Twilight" form (I'm talking about the form that Frodo saw them in, when he put on the Ring) when they start booking it for the ring. Also I think that it would only be fair if the Ringwraiths could actually pick up the Ring after they kill Gollum....

Edited by Scryer, 13 March 2008 - 02:50 AM.

[Myrdin]

lvl 1 pit and already black uruks ?!!!
please noo, taking down one black uruk squad decimates my army ( mostly tier 2 and 3 units ) killing them with basic units is same like trying send Sam against Sauron.
they are the most powerfull hero horde in game, its not fair at lvl 1 pit.

btw, what hounds ? i didnt see any hounds in mordor ( this looks like mirror of isen wargs, and angmar wolfs :( )

mordor pikeman should be weaker, and soo should be goblins pikeman, Isengard should be the " pike race " since following the movie, or just logic, ( they were fightning against horseriders ). Soo i they should be stronger and mordor gob, pikemans weaker. ( remember good old BFME2, before Rotwk screwed up, FU Isengard pikes, were able to counter any enemy, and could fill the place of missing Isen late game units

Troll NO knockback on heroes ( myaybe just only on the weaker ones - 2000 resource cost /soo the strong heroes like aragorn gimly elrond etc should be resistant )

good Idea with weaker orc heroes, i d love to see Grishnak and Gorbag

Edited by Myrdin, 13 March 2008 - 08:52 AM.

[Devon]

The ring would just start at level 10, like it does now...and as for which one, they're the same, we're just talking about moving it from power tree to a hero.

[Dalf32]

i love the idea to make it wander around and target the largest battle. that would be awesome, but how about it just returns to base and moves around there when it is not being used? or perhaps it oculd jsut sit where it last was? that would reduce spying on the enemy base and keep it from getting op.
but it could have both a debuff and a leadership bonus, but if you do both, nerf the leadership a bit so it doesnt get to be too much.

[Devon]

Have it wander randomly around the map then.

[Dalmp]

IMO, the way orc pits should be organized:

Orc pit
level 1: Orc infantry. orc archers.
Level 2: Morrodin (sp?) orcs
level 3: Morgul orcs

uruk tent (requires level 2 pit)
Level 1: Orc pikes. Orc tracker
level 2: Black orcs. Fire arrow upgrade.
Level 3: Black uruks

Armory:
level 1: banner upgrade
level 2: Forged blades
Level 3: Heavy armor


Why it would be better this way (IMHO):

• Orc pikes would offer an immediate reason and benefit to getting an uruk tent (anti-cavalry)
• Morgul orcs are like slightly more expensive orc infantry, with upgrade possibility. But far weaker than black orcs. It's not likely anyone will try hard to get these units, but they won't have to. Orc pits will upgrade from level 2 to level 3 just from unit production.
• Morrodin (sp?) orcs are beefier than regular orcs, but lack the must-have appeal of pikes. So it makes sense you can get them earlier than pikes.
• Black orcs are late-game units. They aren't critical to have before upgrades are available. Putting them later in the tech tree won't hurt a bit, and offers more use to an uruk pit.
• Black uruks would be made more attractive, because there'd be a reason to invest in uruk tents in the first place. As it is right now, by the time I can purchase them I also have felbeasts and attack trolls, making uruks kind of redundant.
• Banners are just not cost-effective without frg blds and hvy armr upgrades. Instead of banners you can build another orc pit and spawn weak units far faster. So putting them in the armory makes sense, since unlike most factions, they won't be useful without an armory anyway.
• Again, unlike many other factions, upgraded archers are not a strong unit in mordor, and not much use past the early middle-game except situationally (we can't compare orc archers to versitile main-line units like mirkwoods and rangers). Putting fire arrows at the end of the armory meant I never had fire arrows until so late in the game that orc archers would have been too weak to put on the battlefield. So I never even used them at all. Putting the fire arrow upgrade into the uruk tent would make it more likely that the upgrade will be used.
• To counter many enemy mid-game units we need either trolls or fire arrows, and nothing else short of heroes really cuts it. So if fire arrows aren't in the tech path, then we are forced to go with trolls and forget about the tent. Putting fire arrows in the uruk tent makes the tent a viable choice of tech path (though not necessarily better).

I think if it was set up more like this, I'd have difficulty deciding what to build, where atm it's a no-brainer. It would offer a smoother progression, and some alternative tech paths that could be taken. Also with this setup, I'd be likely to use every unit at one point or another. Each unit would have a niche at least until outdated later in the game.

Edited by Dalmp, 14 March 2008 - 11:02 PM.

[Myrdin]

i like this, you make a lot of sense. especially with the fire arrows

[Scryer]

I like this idea as well.

[robnkarla]

Most definitely I like this. Great job and well thought-out/explained. I would not be surprised if you saw something like this...

Robert J.

[CIL]

I like the idea.

[Gothmog14]

Same here. Though I thought Morranon Orcs should be like Orcs in strength, but they have a huge horde size (like 30 per). This would make them pretty unique and give them an edge (because with Banners you get a lot of units back).

[Myrdin]

Same here. Though I thought Morranon Orcs should be like Orcs in strength, but they have a huge horde size (like 30 per). This would make them pretty unique and give them an edge (because with Banners you get a lot of units back).

you mean, that they couldnt get upgrades, like orcs but they would have huge horde size ?? yup that sounds good to me
but if ye, they should be pretty slow ( like orcs ) soo they wont get OP

[myster]

I kinda agree and i kinda dont agree..

I like the fact you can also play with nazguls if you are the easterlings.. because it gives them some diversity with heroes..

But to be realistic the nazgul would have to obey to sauron, since he became their master after their rings corrupted them..

if you would be going with the idea of putting khamul and the other nazgul with the easterlings.. there should be atleast 1 nazgul with Arnor.. cos i also heard one or more of the nazgul where from numerorian descendent. but having a nazgul with arnor would be kinda weird.

[Dalf32]

nazgul cannot be with arnor because having numenorian descent means nothing. they were all kings of men but were corrupted and therefore would never ally with any 'good' men again; defenition of corrupted
just because they are with the mote faction doesnt mean they werent allied with sauron. they were still servants of sauron, as were all of the men of the east. they just happen to be commanding something other than orcs

[Uruk King]

Could they at least be purchassable for Mordor?

[Dalf32]

why do you want MORE heros for mordor? the 7 nazgul are already more than most other factions by themselves let alone all of the other heros they have. seriously people; its not like this is totally made up, so dont go and play the accuracy card.

[Dalmp]

8 riders (gothmog, MoS, 6 nazgul) is already way more than mordor needs.

I have to admit, I do kind of wish I could have all 9 in one army when playig WoTR campaigns. But to do that, there'd also have to be 3 other army commanders (Gothmog, MoS and 1 other). I never liked how the vanilla game made you split your nazgul on the map, and absolutely hated how the 6 riders hero horde wasn't a permanent unit on the overland map. I always wanted to group all 9 nazgul, and head them off to the shire to search for 'shire.. baggins...'. Haha

[Myrdin]

and dont forget about which king, who himself, can switch to fellbeast and food. Pwns both way. Mordor aint hero realated, ( well kinda, but its not their prior. they spam cheap hordes, beast and later stronger durable and huge horded units ). I think its ok just with 6 nazghul ( all at same time, on fellbeast can take down anything, and im not speaking about them + WK )

i was just thinking, coul witchking get the abilities rebuild ? Give him the Burning sword ability, one powerfull magic, fire dmg against target ( i already saw this in some mode, but that was soo long back in time, that i forgot the name of the mode ).
(for those who saw the short cut out from Return of the King ) :

" This is MY POWER "

[Uruk King]

Not "power", man. "hour"

But the reasons for my previous statement that they could be purchassable for Mordor, was in the light of having all 9 Nazgul under my command under the banner of the Red Eye. Alternatively they could be summonable units, along with a number of Evil Men troops. Then one can command all Nine Nazgul (for a time)

Well I guess it doesn't matter.