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#1 robnkarla

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 02:30 AM

Add any suggestions and/or bugs for Isengard in here. I want to seperate the factions for discussion.

#2 Zyzzyva

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 11:36 AM

There isnt much wrong with Isengard, since not a lot has changed. Other than having Elladan's name and picture, the wildman hero has all its powers at lvl 1. Also, Lurtz appears twice in a row on the list, so unless you know from previous experience, its impossible to tell which one is Lurtz and which one is Ugluk. Ugluk "has" all of Lurtz's powers to start with, but none of them work. The rest seemed fine to me.
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Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not. It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope. Well, let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.
-Gandalf

#3 Allathar

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 12:47 PM

Hm I wonder why Wormtongue costs more than Lurtz (2k), even if Lurtz is buffed?
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#4 robnkarla

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 08:18 PM

I'm going through and fixing those and putting the WIP portraits to at least show the new heroes and changing their tooltips etc.

Not much changed with them, except the whole combo hordes, and I'm working on formations for the warg riders. Also, some HQ skins.

The wildman hero I forgot to remove from testing - I level everything at level 1 to test ;) This will be fixed.

As for the cost, the heroes I believe are the cost of either 1.06 or the director's cut for BFME2. Since I am changing so much, theis will probably change. I'm open to more suggestions of what you'd like to see in Isengard. I think they are one of the more rounded factions and don't need as much work outside of heroes, skins, & Powers.

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#5 Allathar

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 12:55 PM

Saruman could get a better skin. SEE has a very nice one. Sharku needs a little armor buff.
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#6 el kevo

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 09:48 PM

when they're AI they get all the upgrades for there fortress but then don't build any buildings, heroes, units, or builders
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#7 Xingdao Fan

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 08:54 AM

Are you sure the Warg Packs' trample is normal? I had a combined battalion of two Yeoman Archers, and another battalion separated. When the warg pack came, my combined battalion was reduced to 4 units + the banner carrier, and the separated one, which was 8 units, was now reduced to a single unit.
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#8 Devon

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 04:54 PM

yeoman are weakish medium archers, and archers are weak towards cavalry. u need to protect them or theyll get super owned.

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#9 robnkarla

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 05:55 PM

All right, for the warg pack:

Their crush was a little stronger than I wanted, I lowered them to be a lighter cavalry. (Basically, 60/15 to 60/20 in the min acceleration/decrease. So at full speed they will crush 2 units, at anything less 1 or 0. Also, their damage was lowered.) They are meant for stragglers in escaping armies, scouting, and other specialized areas.

The yeoman archers are definitely weak, and it helps to perserve them with soldiers and/or pikes. They are along the lines of the "missile lanchers" from BFME1. Group 'em with soldiers and it is similar to the peomans.

#10 Devon

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 07:17 AM

ladders cannot attach to elven walls, probly any of the new walls. This is also probably true for mordor siege tower, though ive only tested ladders vs elves

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#11 Allathar

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 12:25 PM

5.01 thignies:

while playing Isengard, the palantír power is way overpowered. The vision needs to be decreased or the reload time increased (the second is better imo)

In normal BfME2 maps Isengard AI doesn't build furnaces (I played fords of isen)

Edited by Allathar, 10 July 2007 - 12:29 PM.

It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#12 Zyzzyva

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 07:56 PM

Continuing 1.05.01 bugs:
One - Wulf still gets all his powers at lvl 1
Two - Ugluk still has no powers (shows lurtz powers but you cant use them)
Three (but most important) - I don't know wheather this is just Wildmen, or all of Isengard, or even all factions, but when you combine an upgraded battalion with an unupgraded one, they all get the upgrades.
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Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not. It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope. Well, let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.
-Gandalf

#13 robnkarla

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 07:59 PM

Continuing 1.05.01 bugs:
One - Wulf still gets all his powers at lvl 1
Two - Ugluk still has no powers (shows lurtz powers but you cant use them)
Three (but most important) - I don't know wheather this is just Wildmen, or all of Isengard, or even all factions, but when you combine an upgraded battalion with an unupgraded one, they all get the upgrades.


- Wulf's powers will be appropriate in the next release.
- Ugluk - I have to design the powers. Let me know if there are any you wish to see him have
- Lastly, that is how it works and one of the benefits of the combo hordes. It saves the cost of upgrades for your units. Also, when you combine a level 6 and a level 1, you'll most likely get a level 6 :p

#14 Zyzzyva

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 08:24 PM

Wow, that was fast :p

Ok, sounds good. I thinks its a good idea for all units to get the upgrade (now, now, children, share :p ) but its a little unfair, seeing as (as far as I know) the AI don't use combo hordes. Oh well, whos gona complain, the AI? :D

For Ugluk, I think he should have some sort of uruk leadership, maybe a melee power or powerup, a healing power (his orc medicine that he uses on Pippin and Merry) and maybe something along the lines of "Stand your Ground, Maggots!" I know, I know, Ugluk didnt say that, the mordor orcs do, but even when faced with almost certain defeat and death at the hands of Eomer, he and his uruks stood their ground and almost prevailed, instead of trying to flee with the prisoners, like Grishnakh. He even fought one on one with Eomer. Thats got to count for something! Maybe It could be something original, for example, it could be that it automattically activates something like Lurtz's Carnage when his health drops below 1/4, but it can only be activated again after he has gone up past 1/4 again. I dont know If thats even possible, but it would cool.

One last thing i forgot to mention is a minor graphical glitch. When Wulf casts his Monster Slayer Arrow, even if hes wielding his bow, the arrow shoots out of a swung hammer! :D
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Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not. It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope. Well, let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.
-Gandalf

#15 Ergopad

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 02:09 AM

Some ideas for Ugluk's abilities. Could he be Isengard's healer/buffer?

lvl 2 "Orc-Draught" (the orchish medicine), an ability that works like athelas. It would also give some boost as orc-draught should.

lvl 4 "Maneater" (Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys.) ability that heals troops depending on corpses on the ground, like eat corpses/orcs or life leech leadership perhaps?

lvl 6 "The Whip of Saruman" +20% speed as leadership.

lvl 10 "Devotion to the White Hand" +100% -(100%*(health/maxhealth)) armor bonus leadership.

Ps. HE should be in Eaves of Fangorn in the introduction and as a "Boss monster".

Edited by Ergopad, 11 July 2007 - 10:12 AM.

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#16 Zyzzyva

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 02:11 AM

Hmm.... Some cool ideas there. How bought like this?:

Lvl 2 Orc Draught - Single Hero heal, heals about as much as athelas and then adds about a 1 minute minor buff

Lvl 3 Whip of Saruman - As stated by Ergopad

Lvl 5 Maneater - Does a medium hit to another unit (full kill to a goblin, mabye about 1/5 on a hero like Lurtz). Absorbs whatever damage done into own health.

Lvl 8 Devotion to the White Hand - Maybe slighty weaker than what Ergopad suggested since its not a lvl 10 anymore

Lvl 10 Stand your Ground Maggots! - What I suggested earlier or if thats to complicated to make, maybe like a group uruk hai carnage that can only be activated when he is below half health. Of course a long timer.

Just some Ideas
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Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not. It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope. Well, let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.
-Gandalf

#17 Ergopad

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 02:17 AM

"Stand your ground maggots!" is a bit long name for ability/power, but something like that yes. And maybe "Devotion to White Hand" should be removed since it's very much alike.

How about like glorious charge, but highly reducing speed (-75%) and huge bonus to attack (as well as invulnerability)? And not white glow, but EEEEEVIL RED glow! :p

Ps. Damn that I don't have Elvenstar Mod 2 anymore so I could check from it. No point to re-invent wheel here. :p

Edited by Ergopad, 12 July 2007 - 02:19 AM.

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#18 Devon

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 06:22 PM

your buffing him up to be way more then hes worth. Usually only 3000+ heroes have a lvl 10 ability. I would do.

lvl 1 - Orc draught, heals up to 10% health, gives 15% speed.
lvl 3 - Meat's on the menu - kind of like troll power, ugluk can attack an ally and gain back some health.
lvl 5 - Alive and unspoiled - temporarily converts one selected horde.
lvl 6 - Fighting Uruk-Hai - +40% speed, +40% attack to all uruk hai warriors.

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#19 Ergopad

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:17 PM

"Usually only 3000+ heroes have a lvl 10 ability."

I have to say that I do NOT agree! I would like to see EVERY hero to have atleast 4-5 powers and atleast one 9-10lvl power. It's more fun to gain experience to see the last level power. For example, all the nazguls have lvl10 powers and they are cheapo heroes.

Especially I would like to see new powers with old heroes and with hobbits. Monster Slayer to Legolas for example and Gimli should have removed his leadership and have a one last level ability too.
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#20 Zyzzyva

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 05:26 PM

"Usually only 3000+ heroes have a lvl 10 ability."

I have to say that I do NOT agree!


Well... Gothmog has level ten, gorkil has lvl 10, arwen has lvl 10, dain has lvl 10, azog has lvl 10, shelob has lvl 10, etc.

I think it would be cool to have every hero have a lvl 10 ability. It would add an incentive to get heros to lvl 10. I mean, if gorkil can summon three drakes than I think we can afford to give Ugluk an ability similar to lurtz's lvl 4. But ultimately, I guess its up to Robnkarla.
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Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not. It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope. Well, let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.
-Gandalf




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