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#521 Gr1m

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 01:15 PM

Let's not have another toggle unit. Isengard doesn't need one.

#522 Pasidon

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 04:37 PM

Urks seem to be single weapon specialty units anyway.

But I do think we can replace deathbringers. Such an over-dramatic name for an over-rated unit...

#523 Devon

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:48 PM

Let's not have another toggle unit. Isengard doesn't need one.


Perfectly said.


Deathbringers can go...and will I think. Probably replaced by either shield uruks or a zerker horde, as someone mentioned. And good riddance :good:

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#524 Jaguar6

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 10:59 PM

No toggle then, how about giving them a sword and small shield then? I think that they should be the MHH, but if not then make the Uruk Mantlets the MHH, both of them should be in.

#525 Thorin IV

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 05:04 PM

I like the Zerker idea, why not just have 2 Zerker half-trolls (dont think Tolkien wouldnt approve though :p ) with HUGE swords

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#526 Pasidon

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 06:12 PM

We did a Zerker Hoard on War of the realms. WAY overpowered than we expected. But seriously, we can make something better than a larger dose of units you can already buy individualy.

And as interesting as a Berserk Troll sounds... we may pass on it due to the fact they don't exist in the world of makebelieve. And when has Isengard ever used a troll stiggy... come on...

Quick Idea:

If we can do anything like the zerker hoard unit, how about we take it to the next level? Isengard is all bout super orginized armies, so why not create an elite units as a single unit of mixed urks? Difference between this unit than other single units bunched together is that it's made of every unit type (maybe not wargs/ any type of calvery as it's flaw) in a perfect orginized formation, and a little more power than normal urks (Sort of like the're upgraded already, but for the sake of looks, no golden armor or ketchup swords). Dunno what the formation would be (Like swordmen and pikes infront with cross-bows taking the back with a certain formation that's hard to beat), but it's like your own personaly mini army. Well at least it's more realistic than like 3 units singlehandedly bringing down an army. We could do something based off this incredible disorginized idea.

Edited by {IP}Pasidon, 13 November 2008 - 06:25 PM.


#527 Thorin IV

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:14 PM

Thats a really good idea! :p i like it better than mine, mine are just ......... mine :crazed:

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#528 Devon

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:18 PM

Erm....combo hording? I prefer just shield uruks :p

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#529 Thorin IV

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:25 PM

Thats sound cool too but they should have really big shields maybe? Towerguard-like exept urukish Posted Image?

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#530 {IP} Aridor

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:34 PM

I like it. With a little work it could be really awesome. Like a SpecOps unit. They are all specialist in their field. You have the Uruk-hai archer with the Lurtz bow, the heavy shielded unit, the zerker type guy, the speedie recon guy, and the captain.

#531 Jaguar6

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 10:07 PM

What about the idea as having a Isengard Troll unit? Not as a MHH but as cavalry unit. And what about having Uruk Scouts/Raiders.
I still like the idea of Uruk Mantlets by the way :p

#532 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 10:11 PM

I'll answer this for you: NO! Didn't you read this?!:

And as interesting as a Berserk Troll sounds... we may pass on it due to the fact they don't exist in the world of makebelieve. And when has Isengard ever used a troll stiggy... come on...


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#533 dojob

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 10:50 PM

Shield uruks like in the movie would be enough imo :p the game just doesn't offer enough control for a "Spec-ops" team to be of much use.
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And please add Bear-mans


#534 {IP} Aridor

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 10:59 PM

Sorry to be anal but it is SpecOps one word. The military doesn't use hyphens. That aside,

I don't think you would really need control of each unit, it would be more like a toggle unit without the toggle. If you could make it so the formation could spread out quite a bit then the archers wouldn't have to close with the melee units.

#535 dojob

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 01:19 AM

But then the unit would end up allover the place and I can imagine a pathfinding hell.

By control, I mean you wouldn't be able to make the best of each individual member; the shieldman can't be individually sent off to attack an archer or take damage unless u gave the whole unit an order to do something (or unless the shieldman wasn't part of the squad at all), in which case the whole unit would try to do what u just want the shieldman to do, and it's the same with the recon guy; you can't send the recon guy alone to do recon without sending off the whole unit and the purpose of having 1 member of the squad be set to recon is pointless because the whole squad is coming anyway.

You'd need a lot of buttons and to jump through a lot of hoops to get this unit to work and it would simply be impossible imo to use it to its full potential while macroing ur resources and other units at the same time; a smart player (especially a good macro'er like Yoda) could simply bog down the team in enemies and take out ur base with others while ur clicking around and microing that 1 squad to try to take down the immediate threat and if u ignore ur squad, then it'll end up doing something stupid (like trying to get near to eachother as hordes in this game normally do) and the squad will be lost.

It would take a lot less effort to make and use a shieldman horde (especially when they were in the movies so people are familiar with it) than some kind of Special Forces team which would be more familiar in a game like Rainbow Six than in the BFME series, which is more about managing armies and bases with some hero use.
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And please add Bear-mans


#536 Pasidon

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 03:49 PM

Wouldn't a unit that is based off of a special ops type of soldier not have a big bulky sheild though? The whole pourpose of an op unit is to do a quick, quiet job, and I can't see a unit like that with a weapon in one hand and a huge plate of iron in one hand (unless he attacks with his sheild...). I mean even an urk with armor would be extream as an op unit, but I can't see an urk with a spooky black robe or anything so them having armor is fine, it's just the sheild thing that doesn't sound right to me.

#537 Gr1m

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 04:16 PM

Wouldn't a unit that is based off of a special ops type of soldier not have a big bulky sheild though? The whole pourpose of an op unit is to do a quick, quiet job, and I can't see a unit like that with a weapon in one hand and a huge plate of iron in one hand (unless he attacks with his sheild...). I mean even an urk with armor would be extream as an op unit, but I can't see an urk with a spooky black robe or anything so them having armor is fine, it's just the sheild thing that doesn't sound right to me.


Personally I don't see an Uruk-hai being capable of special ops - look to the books, they proclaim themselves to be 'the fighting Uruk-Hai' whenever they get spoken to. They're effective soldiers, but I doubt subtlety is in an Uruk-hai's vocabulary.

Considering the Uruk army is primarily designed to face light, heavy and archer cavalry on plains - ie Rohan - maybe we should look at either a MHH consisting of pikemen that are devastating against cavalry, especially cavalry heroes? Hell, give them slightly shorter pikes, a reasonably sized shield and combine that with the Uruk's military discipline, fast movement rate on foot and impressive staying power, and you've got the perfect makings for a devastating phalanx formation.

#538 mike_

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 05:46 PM

Personally I think "Half-Orc Axemen" like those shown in the books would be best. But that's just me.

#539 Jaguar6

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 06:42 PM

I think we should add two Half-Orc units, Axemen and Spearmen, and have either the Uruk Raiders or the Uruk Mantlets as the MHH.

#540 mike_

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 07:21 PM

Why make up units, though, when they're already provided by the Lore? Also, the "Half-Orcs" aren't said to use spears, but large two-handed axes. What purpose would spears serve? And to further my case, they were a small part of Saruman's army on special orders to slay Theoedred at all costs - even their lives, which they fulfilled.




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