209 replies to this topic

[IthronAiwendil]

Thanks for the corrected version. I think that maybe Alatar released Ithron from the mountain of Kalorme, so that he could go wherever he wants, but not the curse that makes him an undead man. So in exchange for freedom, he helped Alatar to defeat Pallando. Hope that made sense

[MorrisB]

Makes some sense. Thanks again for adding him

More coming soon !

By the way, what else do you consider to add ? I want to make this thread as organized as possible.

Therefore: if you say "This is NOT going to happen !", I'll delete that idea. I don't want this thread to be flowing with useless ideas.

And I see you're working on Isengard... hm, I have some interesting ideas. What do you think of the Isengard Sentries, the Goblin Firestarters, Randor, and Greymane ?

[IthronAiwendil]

I think that Isengard is already pretty filled up with units. The units I simply have to add are Ruffians, Grishnakh, Ugluk, Orc Drummers and maybe Half-Orc spies. But it would be a shame not to use your ideas... Maybe I could replace the Half-Orc Spy with a Isengard Sentry...

[Elendil the High]

i think it would be cool with the sentrys

[MorrisB]

Isengard Sentries instead of Half-Orc Spy ? Hmm... I wanted them to be mid-late heavy units... maybe...

What if the Isengard Sentries would be strong scouts/hero-killers, and would come in small groups ? They would be stronger than the Uruk Raiders, but much more expensive and a bit slower.

Edited by MorrisB, 05 July 2007 - 07:56 PM.

[Eonwe]

I think Ludhil should be a hero. We got Arwen for the elves, and Eowyn for Men. Alatar could be the ring hero for Dorwinion just give him new powers. or use that undead numenorian (Ithron) for a ring hero, just make him able to die. He is skilled in magic after all too.

[IthronAiwendil]

I still think Alatar shouldn't be the Ring hero of Dorwinion. And here's a proper name for Ithron: Akrothir. If you have any ideas for a better name, please let me know

Ludhil will be a hero for Dorwinion. But she will be some sort of an early game hero like Arwen.

Edited by IthronAiwendil, 06 July 2007 - 06:13 AM.

[MorrisB]

Well... I tried to make a Numenorian Captain once, and I named him "Orleon". But the name "Akrothir" is also good.

I'll leave the decision to you

[IthronAiwendil]

Even though Orleon is a good name, I think Akrothir sounds a bit more ancient...

And about the Isengard Sentries, couldn't they be some kind of mid-game spy/assassin type units? Because then I could leave the Half-Orc spy out.

And for those who were wondering, Akrothir can die, he just can't die from old age

Edited by IthronAiwendil, 06 July 2007 - 07:12 AM.

[MorrisB]

The Isengard Sentries as spies/assassins ? I highly doubt it... I made them to be wearing heavy armor... people in heavy plate don't make good scouts/assassins...

Hm... but maybe there's an alternative version: do you remember Randor, the corrupted Dunedain ? Maybe thew Isengard Sentries could be corrupted dunedain rangers as well, thus making them really good scout/assassin units.

But this is a bit more unrealistic than their current state... oh, well, you are the boss, Ithron

I could accept them more if they would be led by Randor... bah, I want too much

[IthronAiwendil]

You're right about the Sentries But I doubt that I can use all your Isengard ideas, even though they're really good, because that would make Isengard too huge, they would have something like 38 units... So I'll have to think about which units I want to put into the game...

[MorrisB]

38 UNITS ?!? HOLY <using of such words on this forum is not allowed> !

This is REALLY huge, Ithron ! Hm... what units do they have currently ? I saw only a quite early version of WotE, so I don't know exactly what units they have right now. The basic units are the same, right ? And I think you kept most of the other units from the early versions (Uruk Raiders, Uruk Bombers, Half-Orc Spearmen), and I know that Goblin Archers had been removed to Isengard. What else ? If I had a list about the other changes, maybe I could come up with something.

[IthronAiwendil]

Heroes are also counted. So the new units/heroes of Isengard are Uruk Raiders, Uruk Bombers, Half-Orc Spearmen, Ruffians, Ruffian Horsemen, Orc Drummers, Orc Overseers, Orcs of Lugburz, Ugluk, Grishnakh, Draugluin, Black Eagle, Mauhur, Wulf and the units you suggested That makes Isengard quite big

[MorrisB]

Hmm...

Okay, I'll be brutally honest: I don't like the Orc Drummers and the Black Eagle too much, as well as the already mentioned Half-Orc Spy. Orc Drummers would be more fitting to Mordor. Black Eagle ? I don't like the idea, the Great Eagles are all good-hearted, I don't really love the idea of having a corrupted one. Half-Orc Spy ? Not too fitting to Isengard, I think. A spy unit is not a bad idea, but the form is not the best. Half-Orcs are stupid but strong warriors, right ?

What about:

Half-Orc Spy: replaced with Isengard Sentry (evil dunedain version)

Orc Drummer: replaced with Goblin Firestarters, as Isengard Inn units, just like the Goblin Archers

Black Eagle: replaced with Randor or Greymane; both are fitting, I think... maybe Randor is better, Greymane is a bit similar to Sharku, but Randor is more original and versatile, and Draugluin could be the new Ring Hero (the Black Eagle is the Ring Hero currently, right ?). If you wish to keep the Black Eagle, maybe he could be summonable by a power.

Edited by MorrisB, 06 July 2007 - 02:53 PM.

[Gherrick]

He's right. Orc drummers really don't fit with Isengard. Even Uruks would be...err...strange. So I vote for Sentries

[MorrisB]

Heh, thanks for the support, Gherrick !

I updated Akrothir's new description. I also made a major change at the Isengard Sentries:

--------------------------------------------------------
- Isengard Sentries -

Side: Isengard

Strenghts: Strong against monsters and heroes

Weaknesses: weak against cavalry and archers

Appearence: Similar to the Dunedain Rangers, but has a small difference: it has the "white hand" on its chest...

Description: "Before Saruman became power-hungry, many Dunedain rangers helped him willingly to protect the area around Isengard from bandits and outlaws, and they also escorted travellers. But now, Saruman corrupted the hearts of these once noble people, and they are now known as the dreaded "Isengard Sentries". Those who once overlooked the roads and protected the people now overlook the areas around the bases of Isengard and hunt for invaders, or escort important persons. A single sentry can kill an entire group all by itself if he can work undisturbed. They are very rarely seen in open battles, but if it happens then it's an evidence that Saruman, or an another key leader of Isengard's armies is somewhere nearby."

Special abilities:

Hide - the Isengard Sentry becomes stealthed near trees.

Toggle Weapon - toggles between bow and sword.

Impaling Arrow - shoots a single but powerful arrow, dealing very high damage and knocks back the target

Upgrades: ???

In-game Use: the Isengard Sentries are mid-late game scouts and assassins. They are very strong against heroes and monsters, and can hide near trees, but are vulnerable to cavalry charges.

NOTE: I know that in the books Isengard didn't have such soldiers on it's side, but hey, I thought it's a cool idea.

I hope now they are more fitting for Ithron. However, Ithron, if you read this, please answer: how do you want to use the sentries ? In small groups, or as single units ?

[MorrisB]

Today is an important day for me.

Why, you may ask ?

THIS IS MY 18th BIRTHDAY !!!

I'm having a simple, nice birthday party with the family. The cake was very delicious. <BURP> ! Anyway, I had a small discussion with Ithron earlier (a few days ago) about "What happened to the Goblin faction exactly ?"... Ithron said that he isn't fully done with the replacements. And I got inspired !

New things:

Shadow of Moria - power for Isengard !

"Cave Troll for Isengard" - complaint (for Isengard) !

"Mountain Giant for Angmar" - complaint (for Angmar) !

And I put up a new category: CREEP BASES ! I already made two: Orc Camp and Mountain Giant's Cave !

[MorrisB]

I've updated a new unit, the Woodsmen for the Elves !

...and I've deleted the "Call Mountain Giants" power, since I realized that Angmar already has it (even if in weaker form)...

Well, I'm playing RotWK a lot now, and the campaign gave me some weird ideas... we'll see. Stay tuned for some crazy ideas in the near future !

[JEV3]

My take on Akhoril's story:

Akhoril was a Numenorian descended from those who rejected the authority of the Valar. The young captain, however, avoided choosing sides, but when rebellion was imminent, he decided to give up his heritage and the glorious island. He sailed to Umbar, narrowly avoiding the catastrophic flood. He spent many of his years among the Black Numenorians, and his arrogance made him want to side with them. However it was not so, for emissaries from the new kingdom of Numenor in Middle-earth, came to Umbar. The Black Numenorians fell upon them and he wondered if perhaps this path to greatness was not the one he must take. Disillusioned, he wandered away.
He decided that the people of the new kingdom would not take him due to his heritage. Therefore he wandered through many paths until he came into the East. He met a great lord there who tried to seduce him into Sauron's service. He then told him that though he was tempted with greatness, he was bound only to become a slave. The figure became taller and his eyes shone with a pale, lucid light. He withdrew his hood and a crown shone on his head. He asked him if he would not consider that greatness. Akhoril's heart left him and he fled. The figure chased him, and he cursed him to live in darkness undying like he himself did.
Akhoril escaped and wandered throughout the last desert. As his travels of misery went on he began to realize that he did not age though hunger and thirst decayed his body. He became pale and emaciated, but he lost none of his strength. Folk of Dorwinion would talk about a ghostly warrior in faraway lands that would brave the dark mountains and fight the legendary were-worm. He had mortally wounded the beast, but it escaped. They said that there was a prophesy that he could not rest until he had destroyed the evil creature.
Akhoril would chase the demon over chasm and across wastelands of desert. During his journey he met a blue stranger. The old man said that he would free him if he forsook his chase and helped him. Little did they both know, that inevitably the undead warrior would have to defeat his ancient enemy in a final confrontation. Pallando Romestamo had made the creature darker than ever, and Akhoril would become the only one who could face the fearsome beast.

My opinions on other ideas,

Goblin firestarters is an interesting idea, but they should be really weak and be used for burning things. Unfortunately, Isengard's vast diversity makes it difficult. to add these in effectively. I'm thinking that it could be simplified if Moria was a bonus faction of sorts. All evil factions could recruit them from certain lairs. Their lairs would function like an inn in that it would be on certain maps and you could capture it. However it then could have build plots like BFME1. Then you have a Goblin base and can use them to spam the enemy.

Then there is to balance it out with the good factions... hmmm.... I'm tired so I'm done for now...

[MorrisB]

Well, your story is also good. But you should PM IthronAiwendil about it - he made the original version, I just corrected the grammar mistakes.

As for Goblin Firestarter, I myself don't want it to be a strong unit. They are fast, and deal fire damage, but they come in small groups and are vulnerable to almost every unit stronger than basic swordsmen/spearmen.

However, if you haven't noticed, I already have discussions with Ithron about replacing certain units - see the earlier posts.

Be ready for some crazy stuff coming later today !