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#1 robnkarla

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 07:49 PM

All right, let me hear some ideas on the hobbits. I'd like to make them as useful and fun to use as they were in BFME1, but the game in general has changed, thought I'm trying to capture the feel of BFME1 expanded.

What would you like to see with them? Here are the boundaries I'd like to set with them:

1) They will stay within the 100-200 cost of a normal battalion (100 preferred to be the goal)
2) They build quickly, so they will most likely be your first unit out.
3) At level 1, they should should not be able to take out a full battalion of Uruks, but they should be able to take out a battalion of Mordor Orcs.
4) They have the valuable use as a spy.
5) Lastly, a level 10 hobbit should be able to take out a battalion or a combo of uruks with the appropriate tactics, but still should not be able to kill higher level heroes 1v1.

I'd like to hear what you'd like. Powers, specializations, let me know?

Some generic ideas to start off:

Pippin - Firecracker - ignite an area in flames.
Sam - The lovable Fryingpan - stuns an enemy hero

Update with ideas that I'm leaning towards:
Initial powers for all:
1) Toggle Weapons (Sword & Rock)
2) Elven Cloak (Debating whether to move to Level 5, I like the initial spy capability)

The passenger capability is included I believe and I will be allowing the mounts wherever possible. (Gandalf, Treebeard, etc.) Now one thing to keep in mind - I will have powers that benefit between hobbits (Merry & Pippin, etc) but they will only work in MP and Campaign as you will not have the hobbits together outside of this. In contrast, I might have them give a bonus to the others if any of them are around, thus when all 4 are together they benefit from each other's presence.

Frodo:
3) Phial of Galadriel
4) Bilbo's Gifts (Armor, Heatlh increase, and I might attempt to do a texture change, but I'm not the best skinner)
5) Use of the ring (an ability for him to use the ring when found while taking it back to the fortress)

Sam:
3) Frypan - Stuns/Paralyzes Unit/Hero (Almost like a cross between freeze and cripple)
4) For the Old Gaffer - High Temporary boost to power
5) Lembas

Pippin:
3) Heroes of Gondor (Texture change and bonuses based on the PP power)
4) Troll Bane (Increase attack against Monsters)
5) Draw of the Palantir (Does 2 things if I can get it to work properly, you can see anywhere on the map with the palantir and the enemy can see the area around pippin)

Merry:
3) Esquire of Rohan (I'd really like to beg Cel to use his model/texture, but I might have to do this another way.)
4) Dagger of Noldor (Throws dagger at enemy, causing high damage)
5) Nagzul Strike (Has the capability to cripple & nearly kill a nazgul/witchking, but also takes a paralyzing hit.)

Bilbo:
3) Longevity (Health increase)
4) Campfire (Similar to Well of Galadriel/Goblin Totem powers)
5) Desire for the Ring (temporary model change, terror, attack power %+)

Also, to give you the idea, I'm planning on using Frodo & Gollum in a different way to capture the rings on some specific maps. (Basically any map that I modify to begin with which might be all of them in the end). So Gollum would be a special hero for every evil faction and Frodo a special hero for every good faction. If you do not build them, you will not find the ring. I thought about using Bilbo for this purpose, but I think Bilbo fits much better with the dwarves than Frodo does. And the struggle between Frodo and Gollum in LotR works as well.

I also am thinking of giving the Good factions the option of destroying the ring in some fashion. (I've not figured out the best way.) If they do this, they do not gain the ring hero, but instead gain a power over evil factions....

Edited by robnkarla, 16 July 2007 - 04:43 PM.


#2 Devon

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 08:16 PM

hmmm, well, a lot of these ideas are already used cause theres not that much extra you can do, but:


give pippin and merry passive boost when around eachother?
same with sam and frodo?
troll bane for pippin, some special attack for merry, witch king wounder maybe? idk lol.

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#3 robnkarla

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 08:19 PM

Those aren't bad. So many mods out there have done such a variety with the hobbits, so I doubt I could do too much that is unique. The goal is not to focus on making them unique, but to create the best hobbits that fit the mod.

It's the idea and the over-all concept of the mod that is what makes it unique.

#4 el kevo

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 08:34 PM

why hobbit faction. don't you think theres enough factions
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#5 robnkarla

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 08:41 PM

No, I'm not planning a new faction at all. ***Shivers at the implications of 11 factions**. No I will not be increasing it abow 10. 8 factions is the limit for all factions AI to work on an 8 player map. With 10 factions, only 8 of the factions will have working AI's which I'm willing to live with, though I don't mind.

This is just what would you like to see with the 5 hobbit heroes. They need a little something extra, but not too much and I thought I'd open it up to specific suggestions.

The hobbits that will be included:
Frodo
Sam
Pippin
Merry
Bilbo

#6 Ergopad

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 11:47 PM

No, I'm not planning a new faction at all. ***Shivers at the implications of 11 factions**. No I will not be increasing it abow 10. 8 factions is the limit for all factions AI to work on an 8 player map. With 10 factions, only 8 of the factions will have working AI's which I'm willing to live with, though I don't mind.

This is just what would you like to see with the 5 hobbit heroes. They need a little something extra, but not too much and I thought I'd open it up to specific suggestions.

The hobbits that will be included:
Frodo
Sam
Pippin
Merry
Bilbo


Here's some powers for them:

All hobbits have Toggle Weapons and Cloak as level 0 abilities plus...


Frodo:
"Mithril Shirt" +armor, passive

Sam:
"Frying Pan" gives chance to stun opponents for five secs

Pippin:
lvl 2 "Troll's Bane" Extra damage against monsters.
lvl 5 "Dagger of Noldor" throwing attack, uses throwing spear animation
lvl 10 "Guard of Gondor" passive +armor (and +extra damage when near Gandalf?), changes the skin also?!!

Merry:
lvl 2 "Barrow Blade" Extra damage against undead. (wights, nazguls,...)
lvl 5 "Dagger of Noldor" throwing attack, uses throwing spear animation
lvl 10 "Esquire of Rohan" passive +armor (and +extra damage when near Eowyn?), changes the skin also?!!

Bilbo:
Well basically same abilities than Frodo, but someone else who has read Hobbit-book should come up the ideas...

And how about making them able to ride with any hero with horse (like in bfme extended ed -mod). And definately Treebeard (and ents) should able to carry them. Carrying hobbit would add buffs? (+dam)

Edited by Ergopad, 13 July 2007 - 11:56 PM.

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#7 Crashdoc

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 11:57 PM

8 factions is the limit for all factions AI to work on an 8 player map. With 10 factions, only 8 of the factions will have working AI's which I'm willing to live with, though I don't mind.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean, 'cause right now the AI is working for 9 of the factions (not evil men). If that has something to do with 8 player maps, how so? Why not on 2 players maps?

Could you explain a bit more? (I've done some modding and a bit of mapping for myself, so if you could explain in more details that would be great)

If you can only get 8 factions with fully working AI, will those be the same as those with CAH and have you decided yet which factions it will be?



Sorry if it is a bit off topic, even though the quote is from this thread, but feel free to move my post where you see fit.


Thanks!

Edited by Crashdoc, 13 July 2007 - 11:57 PM.


#8 Dalf32

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 12:25 AM

Frodo:
needs 2 b able 2 use the ring
mithril coat (BIG armor boost)
a passive power called 'weight of the ring' or sumthin that slows him down (late power)

Sam:
frying pan (good against heros)
'for Frodo' boost (lvl 10) gives big damage, attack speed, and armor bonus
mayb a 'lembas bread' power that heals nearby heros

Sam and Frodo shuld b able 2 have a greater vision for gollum than most units (if its possible)
they shuld also get boosts wen near each other

Merry:
definetly get 'esquire of rohan' power (as ergopad said)
mayb a boost wen riding on eowyn's horse and/or treebeard

Pippin:
also get 'guard of the citadel' power (again as ergopad said)
a boost wen riding on gandalf's horse and/or treebeard

Merry and Pippin shuld also get a boost around each other.
all hobbits shuld also b able 2 mount any hero's horse or any ent

Bilbo:
mayb an 'effect of the ring' passive power that increases his health (representing his long life)
perhaps a power called 'paranoia' or sumthin lik that, wer Bilbo randomly attacks friendly and enemy units but gets a big attack speed and damage boost.
i dunno wat else, so much mor culd b dun if he hadnt given the ring and his mithril coat 2 Frodo

wuld suggest u do look at sum other mods (elvenstar mod in particular) as sum of ther stuff 4 the hobbits is great
thats all i got 4 now, but im sure ill think of sumthin else.

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#9 Ergopad

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 12:54 AM

Bilbo:
lvl 0 "toggle weapon" between stick and stone (from basic hobbits)
lvl 2 "Adventurer" increases sight and adds speed bonus. passive ability.
lvl 3 "Camping" makes a little fire that heals friendly units (like totems in warcraft3).
lvl 6 "Longevity" +100% or +xxx maxhealth.
lvl 10 "Wrathform" like elendil, causes terror and adds damage bonus for short time (20s).

And as you could use one of the basic hobbits (recruitable) as his model, before someone makes one for him.

Frodo and Sam could go as pair (with elves). Abilities from both of them (as they don't have that many altogether).

Edited by Ergopad, 14 July 2007 - 01:08 AM.

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#10 thekiller11

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 09:45 AM

Maybe giving Bilbo a Burglar ability, like the Evil men CaH ability for stealing money from resource buildings
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#11 Allathar

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 12:34 PM

Perhaps Bilbo should get spider-bane and be able to steal resources from enemy buildings. Also, I think Frodo should NOT have ring-abilities since Gollum walks on the map with it eh?
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#12 Xingdao Fan

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 12:49 PM

Frodo Baggins:
  • Toggle Weapon [Sword/Rocks]: Toggles between stabbing with a sword or throwing rocks.
  • Bilbo's Gifts (Level 3): Mithril Vest grants 75% armor bonus. Also replaces the knife for Sting, granting 20% bonus damage and a blue glow whenever Orcs, Uruk-Hai or Goblins are close (only those specifically, not trolls/evil men/etc).
  • Elven Cloak (Level 5): Remains invisible when used. Lasts until the wearer moves.
  • Light of Earendil (Level 6): The Elves' most beloved star. May be used to scare away enemies.
  • Disguise (Level 8/9): Disguises as an Orc.
  • Quest (Level 10): (not sure about this one) Being loyal to the quest given to him, Frodo ignores damage for a short duration.
Samwise Gamgee:
  • Toggle Weapon [Sword/Throw Rocks]: Toggles between stabbing with a sword or throwing rocks.
  • Frying Pan (Level 3): Uses a frying pan to stun and deal damage to an enemy unit or hero.
  • Elven Cloak (Level 5): Remains invisible when used. Lasts until the wearer moves.
  • Hithlain Rope (Level 6): (not sure about this one) Using the elven gift, Sam can ensnare an enemy.
  • Disguise (Level 8/9): Disguises as an Orc.
  • Aid (Level 10): (not sure about this one) Every nearby hero takes 10% less damage.
Peregrin Took:
  • Toggle Weapon [Sword/Throw Rocks]: Toggles between stabbing with a sword or throwing rocks.
  • Elven Cloak (Level 5): Remains invisible when used. Lasts until the wearer moves.
  • Citadel Guard (Level 8): (should also grant an armor to Pippin, like when Gandalf turns White) Permanently grants 50% armor and 25% damage.
  • Troll Bane (Level 10): An attack that deals high damage to a troll (includes CaH Trolls)
Meriadoc Brandybuck:
  • Toggle Weapon [Sword/Throw Rocks]: Toggles between stabbing with a sword or throwing rocks.
  • Elven Cloak (Level 5): Remains invisible when used. Lasts until the wearer moves.
  • Esquire of Rohan (Level 8): (should also grant an armor to Merry, like when Gandalf turns White) Permanently grants 25% armor and 50% damage.
  • Determination (Level 10): Grants 25% bonus speed, and remains invulnerable to attacks for a short duration.
By the way, Hobbit Heroes can't kill Pikemen. Is this intentional?

Edited by Xingdao Fan, 15 July 2007 - 05:32 PM.

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#13 Ergopad

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 04:06 PM

The question is WHO can kill pikemen? :p

At one time, I had atleast +5 fully upgraded battalions of Rohirrim and they all were owned by a single group of isengard pikemen... :ninja: I think pikemen should not got that big bonus vs. cavalry. And the Rohirrim cost almost double considered to pikemen.

Great ideas xingdao. Though I have some doubts about Merry's Determination ability... I'd really much like to see "Dagger of Noldor" -ability.
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#14 Xingdao Fan

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 05:34 PM

I was trying to make the same number of abilities for Merry and Pippin. Perhaps give both the Noldorin Daggers ability...

And about pikemen, they should have that bonus, but Éomer's Horse Lord should provide something against it, or maybe Erkenbrand. We saw in the movie when the riders came down, the uruk pikemen stood no chance. Of course, Gandalf kinda blinded them with the light, but I still think either Erkenbrand or Éomer should provide a bonus vs pike damage.

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#15 astrinax

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 02:09 AM

I am NOT in favor of a hobbit faction. I think i'd be cool to be able to recruit them in pairs like sam and frodo or merry and pippen, and/or bilbo by himself.

I really do like the idea of giving the hobbits boosts when near eachother like merry an pippen and frodo and sam. I'd be all for that. Maybe an even bigger boost for when they are all together huh?

I also think i'd be cool to have the ability for hobbits to ride on horseback and treebeard but don't think its that nessacary and I also for sure don't think they should get a boost. If anything when you click on that unit, the hero they ride with (or on with treebeard) should get a reduction in stats as the hobbits are a burden.
if somehow you do get hobbits to mount on horses and ents, it'd be cool if they could still throw rocks and use their sword on horseback to help kill.

Frodo Baggins:

- Toggle Weapon [Sword/Rocks]: Toggles between regular hobbit sword and throwing rocks.
- Bilbo's Gifts (I like this name idea) (Level 3):
I like the mithril Idea but instead of having it boost armor permenently, i'd like to see it at more times randomly keep frodo from falling, like maybe one out of three times he should get killed he doesent and maybe gets some energy back. Sting, granting 20% only glowing near orcs and monsters not men.
* Elven Cloak (Level 5): Remains invisible when used. Lasts until the wearer moves.
* Light of Earendil (Level 6): Keep this one the same
* So far from home (Level 8/9): Becomes invulnerable for awhile. I don't see a use for a orc disquise because there is already a cloak, why would you ever use the elven cloak if you could just use that? this could be like frodo giving a hundred and ten percent like when he destroyed the ring even though (like in the game) he could be close to death
* Burden (Level 10): Passive power, it could take a toll in speed to the people around him. (in theory because they'd be protecting frodo)

Samwise Gamgee:
I don't like the frying pan idea, yea it may have been funny but I don't take it too seriously. You can't really practically kill or stun orcs with a frying pan. he didnt in the movie so why should sam in the game?
* Toggle Weapon [Sword/Throw Rocks]: Toggles between stabbing with a sword or throwing rocks.
* Campfire (level 3/4) using a totem like device like the goblin king sam makes a fire and changes the ground to heal units. (the fire is only temporary)
* Elven Cloak (Level 5): Remains invisible when used. Lasts until the wearer moves.
* Hithlain Rope (Level 6): I like this idea but I think it would be more practical if he could use this rope to fix a building. so you'd click on the building to lessen the damage a little or all.
* For the Shire (level 8) sam gets an increase in damage
* Lembas (level 10) operates like athelas

Peregrin Took:

* Toggle Weapon [Sword/Throw Rocks]: Toggles between stabbing with a sword or throwing rocks.
* Elven Cloak (Level 5): Remains invisible when used. Lasts until the wearer moves.
* Citadel Guard (Level 8): I like this idea of his costume changing. Increase in armor yes, but I dont think he would do more damge because I don't think he'd be that much better with a gondor sword. Maybe only a bit. also, because of the costume change, I think the elven cloak should be nulled but I don't know what to do about the old cloak power.
* Bane (Level 10): I like this idea. An attack that deals high damage to monsters.
* The enemy's plan: uses a palantir to see an area of the map but for a short period of time loses armor and attack an damage.

Meriadoc Brandybuck:

* Toggle Weapon [Sword/Throw Rocks]: Toggles between stabbing with a sword or throwing rocks.
* Elven Cloak (Level 5): Remains invisible when used. Lasts until the wearer moves.
* Esquire of Rohan (Level 8): Same like Pippen, loses cloak possibly.
* Battle of bywater: (level 9): Merry Gives leadership to hobbit allies that are non-hero
* Prove Worth(Level 10): An assassin type ability where it could simulate stabbing the witch king's leg.

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#16 Allathar

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 09:53 AM

Actually, Sam DOES use his frying pan to kill lots of Goblins in the movie. Perhaps only in the extended version, but I definitly remember him smashing goblins in Moria with his pan.
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#17 Xingdao Fan

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 10:08 AM

Yes, Sam smashes a few goblins with it?

Perhaps we could replace Determination for the Witch-King killing ability, or leadership to hobbits, yes.

And for all people who read the topic

THIS IS NOT A HOBBIT FACTION TOPIC. IT'S ABOUT HEROES.

Edited by Xingdao Fan, 16 July 2007 - 10:08 AM.

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#18 astrinax

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 03:54 PM

Actually, Sam DOES use his frying pan to kill lots of Goblins in the movie. Perhaps only in the extended version, but I definitly remember him smashing goblins in Moria with his pan.



kill or knock out eh?? :p



should we also ad a bonk sound? ;)

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 04:05 PM

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<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.c...></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.c.../v/HaKxY3aEIL8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Sam uses his frying pan at about 2:50

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 04:06 PM






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