362 replies to this topic

[Nazgûl]

No they will come fully upgraded

[Dunadan Arathor]

Will the Dunedain already be permanent in the next beta (4.7) ?

[zachdaddy_3000]

It is Nazgul's wish that they become permanent, so, hopefully, yes they will be in the next beta.

[Nazgûl]

Yeah, I'll probably make sure all summons are permanent until death. Except the Balrog

[zachdaddy_3000]

Well, Naz, actually, why not keep the Balrog permanently too? I mean, did you see the balrog in the movies? It looked like it and Gandalf were fighting for DAYS. From the top of a small bridge to falling down a chasm, to a mountain-top?! It doesn't seem to get bored very easily, so I think it would stick around a battle until it DIED. Plus, it is way easier to kill than GROND especialy with Gandalf on your team.

Edited by zachdaddy_3000, 08 October 2008 - 05:03 PM.

[Gfire]

Actually, as far as realism goes, AotD should have some sort of limit. Maybe until they've helped with X number of kills or something, if that's possible.

[Nazgûl]

Yeah, Balrog and AoD have to have a summon limit. Otherwise the game would be greatly unbalanced. Besides, they both really fit that concept I think...

[Lt Commander Chris]

I'll post in here since you asked, Nazgul. With my pesky balancing changes and my constant testing (yes I am trying to help, in reality ) some things that need changing about Moria; some you may know, some maybe not (you may have noticed I'm going through each sticky, I hope to provide some decent detailed feedback instead of the usual sporadic stuff ):

A) Gondorian infantry
They're not too bad from my experience with balancing, but not quite as they should be a little stronger, especially with upgrades. It is understandable that the soldiers of Gondor aren't the the most skilled, or the very strongest fighters of Middle Earth, but they are still a formidable fighting force and are well drilled and certainly not weak. Currently they drop a bit too quickly to other melee units, and fail to inflict decent damage. Their build set-up (time, CP) is good, however I would recommend that they cost a bit more cash.

Suggestions, for both swordsmen and pikemen:
Tweak: increase health
Tweak: increase damage
Increase pikeman resilience to cavalry charges slightly
Increase price but not build time

B) Cavalry
Pretty good here, Rohirrim seem about right, the Minas Tirith Knights, however, are a little patchy; though they are not the finest speed and manoeuvrability they are currently comically slow, not only is it frustrating it also looks bad with the animation. Their armour and health seems alright, but their damage is a bit mediochre, regardless of their inferiority to Rohirrim, they are still heavy cavalry! Good setup for the stables, alright build times. Only problem with Rohirrim is that they do not charge enemies anymore; they stop before impact and lose the advantage.

Suggestions:
Tweak: increase Minas Tirith Knights' speed
Tweak: increase Minas Tirith Knights' damage
Tweak: increase Minas Tirith Knight's health when armoured
Make sure that Rohirrim can charge enemies
Increase build costs!

C) Siege Weaponry
Trebuchets work good, quite well set up. Only major thing I can think to request is a bit more variety, see below

Suggestions:
Tweak: increase trebuchet range slightly
Increase trebuchet size (mmmm scaling is nice) or perhaps a project would be to have a new, nicer model more like a real trebuchet?
Increase its damage if scaled, and see Post Scriptum

Post Scriptum to C):

I think a new siege weapon would be a good idea; a new counterpart to the trebuchet. Assuming it was scaled up (they're rather pathetically small at the moment) and it was made into the lumbering but powerful machine of war that a trebuchet is, it would be a heavy artillery piece. Now I'm not sure what canonically exists for such a role, but I think something along the lines of a light artillery piece, not as long ranged or damaging against buildings, but cheaper, quicker and still potent in some way, and better at fighting enemy troops (non-wall trebuchets should find it hard) would be neat - what other things did the Men of the West have? Because other factions have multiple siege weapons and this would seem perfect for the highly drilled and organised army of Gondor; a light piece and a heavy piece for differing roles or deployment...

More may come!

Thanks,

Chris

Edited by Lt Commander Chris, 12 October 2008 - 07:05 PM.

[Gfire]

Why would heavy armor increase health?

The trebuchets at Minis Tirith did seem taller in proportion in the movie. Non-wall trebuchets would, realistically, be built on site. Perhaps a system like in Age of Empires II would be good for them. It would also make them more vulnerable, making up for additional damage and range.

[Mordor Slayer]

When you scale the trebuchets, the crew operating it also get bigger. Someone (though it was LOTRJunkie) made a new model, but it needs animations.

[Lt Commander Chris]

Why would heavy armor increase health?

Harder to kill means that in game it virtually adds up to more health, just dependent on the damage type.

[kraken]

Ignore

Edited by kraken, 13 October 2008 - 04:18 PM.

[zachdaddy_3000]

You do know that the dwarves have catapults that are able to shoot oil casks, right? And I'm not too sure where you got the idea for a ballista that shoots arrows....

[kraken]

You do know that the dwarves have catapults that are able to shoot oil casks, right? And I'm not too sure where you got the idea for a ballista that shoots arrows....

They were the only way that I could see you having anti-infantry artillery, so they were just some ideas for it (idiot that I am, I forgot about the Dwarf's catapults). The second idea was based on something from Medieval, Total War called an organ gun - basically firing many small projectiles instead of a large one for more damage rather than accuracy...

Just realised though that when I mass edited my previous post that I deleted a very important line. The first line was meant to read like this:

Like the idea about "light" artillery, although I cannot recall in the books or the films anything that could be used that way. A way that it could be used:

My post was more on a way that it could be done, rather than whether it should be done. In fact I thought that they might end up being over powerful unless severely limited and too much work to do. Sorry for the confusion

[Lt Commander Chris]

Complete edit: Initial post was nowhere near good enough.

Like the idea about "light" artillery. A way that it could be used:

Very slow firing, very short range weapon but one that has a large damage radius (like a shotgun). By using something like this, it would end up being an anti-infantry weapon and completely useless against buildings and walls. Slow firing is the key though, as they'd be deadly at close range and would have to be extravagant (in cost, cp and time taken to build) to offset the large damage they could do to opposition armies. Something like this:

1. A Catapult firing oil casks, which break up in the air and shower burning oil on the troops.
2. A Ballista that shoots lots of arrows quite inaccurately

Reason for not using a trebuchet is the trajectory. I think of a trebuchet as shooting missiles very high on a slow, long arc whilst catapults and ballistas (in my mind at least) shoot a lot flatter and quicker. Basically, this prevents a defending side putting several of their light artillery behind their walls (and away from a fair amount of harm) and destroying the attackers army. Maybe there could even be a limit on the number that they could build, seeing as shooting quivers of arrows/ burning hot oil is not the most frugal of pastimes.

Just adding a little meat to the bones. I think that the work needed to create a completely new skin (possibly even model), coding and the huge damage that these could do makes it not feasible, but that's for others to decide.

I'd disagree; look at realism here.

Trebuchets have high arcs, yes, but in the Gondorian ones, especially the defensive ones, they can be used for attacking massed formations or large siege weaponry, though are good against buildings.

It's a ridiculous extreme to have a light opposite in every way; the rock-paper-scissors effect which BLIGHTS so many games is not wanted, and this mod does a lot to add realism. Light artillery would be catapults, ballista, mangonels, something more compact and mobile, but still capable against buildings at a reduced rate, and better as a field artillery, against units. Light and heavy aren't opposite, they are different amounts along a scale.

[kraken]

Ignore my thoughts. I just came on to remove them anyway for two reasons - First is that they are a four letter word with an "S" and "T" in them (and I'm not talking suet here) and secondly, they aren't in anyway relevant to the game.

Sorry about that, my enthusiasm went ahead of me there.

[Onicrom]

Would it be possible to make the Gondor Trebuchet's projectiles bounce, if any faction should have it I think it should be Gondor considering that the building debrees bounced in the movies.

[Ed Of The 3rd Kind]

Ah quadruple post dude! but ya bouncing projectiles would be cool!

[Mick]

Hey, i'm new to this but anyway, i was wondering if there is a way to build the stonework that is one of the gondor fortress upgrades anywhere, not necessarily having the economic benfefits, but just to make your base look better. I just love the way it looks and think it would be awesome to have pavement covering your whole base from as soon as you walk through your gate. I can't really explain it well but yeah =]

[Nazgûl]

I also want the Stoneworker back. We'll put it in, as noted in the ToDo List
Not sure exactly what it will do though, but we'll think of something