18 replies to this topic

[Hostile]

Recently I took a hit of pot from a friend of a friend. Straight talk here. First time in years. And years before that since I did. Still I think to myself, why is this illegal? So I asked myself a simple question...

[music]
So I asked myself a simple question,
just to see what I would find.
When I answered that simple question,
I realised I was out of my mind...
[/music]

So then I answered my own question. Because it's quite profitable for a law enforcement agency to raid drug lords and confiscate enormous amounts of cash. It was like hit on the head.

There is a direct profit gained by having illegal drugs and having law enforcement bust, sieze, and claim the drug money. Because the money they claim is able to be used directly by the local agency that claimed the siezed money.

Say for example:
Coast guard captures a drug runners boat, and seize the materials (which are destroyed) they then claim the boat and auction it off. They get the money to help finance the operation.

If law enforcement raids a property, and seizes large amounts of cash from a drug lord, they are allowed to keep it and help finance the local authorities.

It makes sense from the law enforcement side to fight for keeping illegal drugs illegal. Alot of money funnels to one point, law enforcement seizes it, and it further finances the continued increase in law enforcement budget.

And that is why you cannot sit in a park bench and smoke a joint. Yet you can smoke a cigarette?

See if there was money to be made by removing abortion, than law enforcement and politians would be all over it. Yet, there is no money made. So it falls under "a womans right to her body"

But hey isn't smoking pot affecting only "my body?" But the rules don't appear to be the same.

This is more of an addendum to my previous thread called "It's my body right?"

[Elerium]

Well Cannabis directly affects the brain leading to a myriad of brain disorders, and increases the chance dramatically of one developing schizophrenia usually in adolescence and those that do get a brain disorder brought about by pot sometimes go around killing innocents, recently I saw in the paper a 20 year old girl got stabbed 66 times to death by a paranoid schizophrenic who took pot since he was 14 and ended up having a screwed up life caused and aggravated by the weed, and that girl had her own promising future as a graphic designer taken away by someone who couldn't control it. There's also been including some cases where in older people it screws the mind up so bad it can distort sanity. I think this is why it's illegal, and I can't blame them really. If you ask me, anything that messes with my mind, sorry, I'm not taking Police would probably use that money to prevent said problems from happening again, which is their job. The people are directly told about cannabis and the problems it causes depending on the drugs education levels in that area, and if you're told not to get or take cannabis in that country, you can't due to the side effects caused and if you do, well you'll just boost the law while you're at it.

But hey isn't smoking pot affecting only "my body?" But the rules don't appear to be the same.

Smoking pot affects your body, but at the same time there is a potential chance you can harm others, or give it to others to try, which there is the possibility of it ruining lives of others.

Heck, take a look on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia....cts_of_cannabis

Smoking cigarettes is a lesser drug, and as such has been classified as having 'less harmful' side effects usually only being the prime cause of cancer, smoking addiction and lung disease, but also if you think about it, tobacco was around for hundreds of years and no matter how hard you're going to try, you ain't going to ban it, they only try to ban those drugs that are new and cause a whole new lot of problems. America tried to ban alcohol back in the 30's, look how that turned out, only because they've got such a foothold in corporate profits and social living. If pot was legal, and say there was a whole load of problems, America would have an even bigger problem than it turns out now (and those subsequent other countries). Personally I think a good mental health of the nation outclasses physical health. Alcohol affects the brain, but I'd say it doesn't trigger psychotic episodes, just making people drunk and increasing anger/relaxation levels. If Cannabis also was legalised, those oh so great drug lords will love you for raking millions off of their addicted slaves, which can be used to fund terrorism, w/e. Your protection over theirs?

Edited by Elerium, 14 July 2007 - 12:12 PM.

[Ash]

My opinion has not changed. All drugs should be legal as then they can be regulated and taxed.

So then I answered my own question. Because it's quite profitable for a law enforcement agency to raid drug lords and confiscate enormous amounts of cash. It was like hit on the head.

There is a direct profit gained by having illegal drugs and having law enforcement bust, sieze, and claim the drug money. Because the money they claim is able to be used directly by the local agency that claimed the siezed money.

Think about it. The money gained by tax revenue would far exceed the drug busters. And the drug busters can still be employed to take illegal drug lords. It would easily put them out of business.

Whether it's legal or not, people are still gonna do these things. It's human nature to ply for mental escapism.

[Soul]

I'm not sure were I stand on this, you all have good points that make quite a bit of sense to me.

[Banshee]

Because it's quite profitable for a law enforcement agency to raid drug lords and confiscate enormous amounts of cash. It was like hit on the head.

Not here. They spend a lot of money with intelligence, wages and their own lifes. Drug lords are more protected than the president. Their armies have better weapons than the army, anti-air batteries, lots of grenades, C4, an amazing range of heavy machine guns, cell phones, radios and much more... Police confiscate these things constantly, but they doesn't find much money with it... they find drugs, weapons, grenades etc... that they can't use or make money out of it.

[Tom]

Well Cannabis directly affects the brain leading to a myriad of brain disorders, and increases the chance dramatically of one developing schizophrenia usually in adolescence and those that do get a brain disorder brought about by pot sometimes go around killing innocents, recently I saw in the paper a 20 year old girl got stabbed 66 times to death by a paranoid schizophrenic who took pot since he was 14 and ended up having a screwed up life caused and aggravated by the weed, and that girl had her own promising future as a graphic designer taken away by someone who couldn't control it.

There is no definate link between cannabis and psychosis, however cannabis certainly does alter neural patterns in the brain, but neural patterns are not always a permenant thing. I have been diagnoised with an anxiety disorder/OCD and i'm certain cannabis has helped cause it, however since i quit smoking cannabis I have returned to a relatively stable state with the occassional anxiety issues.

I have a friend who abused many drugs throughout his life and has been diagnoised with schizophenia, however he is now considered "on the recovery."

There is a difference between occassionally smoking cannabis and abusing cannabis. The abuse is where mental health problems occur, not just smoking it on the occassion.

There is no definate evidence that supports the claim cannabis leads to schizophenia.

There's also been including some cases where in older people it screws the mind up so bad it can distort sanity.

Define sanity in todays world? We have political leaders sending armies overseas and killing thousands of innocent civilians in the name of "anti terrorism." You consider that sane?

I think this is why it's illegal, and I can't blame them really.

Its illegal because its a nanny state. Stoned people don't do fuck all. They sit around all day and get stoned, they are generally lazy and not good for society or making profit. Thats why its illegal imo.

If you ask me, anything that messes with my mind, sorry, I'm not taking Police would probably use that money to prevent said problems from happening again, which is their job. The people are directly told about cannabis and the problems it causes depending on the drugs education levels in that area, and if you're told not to get or take cannabis in that country, you can't due to the side effects caused and if you do, well you'll just boost the law while you're at it.

The drug education system in both America and Britain is appauling. Its fear mongering propaganda against drugs, not education, therefore it doesn't work because teenagers have developed this natural ambition to not "comply." Its simple. Educate properly and then let people make their own minds up about how they use mind altering chemicals. Abuse is the problem, not general use.

I can think of many pharmacuetical drugs that are dangerous or even stuff you eat in your every day diet such as MSG, Apartame and even Ritalin (which they prescribe to kids with ADHD). All that crap is fucked up. Research that.

Smoking pot affects your body, but at the same time there is a potential chance you can harm others, or give it to others to try, which there is the possibility of it ruining lives of others.

But people make their own choices. I don't blame my mate for giving me my first spliff. It was my choice to take it. Nothing to do with "ruining" other peoples lives. People ruin their own lives usually.

Heck, take a look on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia....cts_of_cannabis

Wikipedia is not a credible source. Its a public document, it might have many intelligent people altering it however it cannot be used as a credible source for multiple reasons.

There is too little research on the effects of cannabis on the human brain to even have a conclusion on the mental health matter. For now the advice is stop listening to government propaganda, be intelligent and use common sense. If you don't like cannabis or fear it leads to mental health disorders then don't smoke it. Simple enough. I hate all this nanny state crap. People need to think for themselves and stop being so god damn ignorant and stupid. Common sense is a nice think to come across nowadays, although rare.

Smoking cigarettes is a lesser drug, and as such has been classified as having 'less harmful' side effects usually only being the prime cause of cancer, smoking addiction and lung disease, but also if you think about it, tobacco was around for hundreds of years and no matter how hard you're going to try, you ain't going to ban it, they only try to ban those drugs that are new and cause a whole new lot of problems.

Nicotine is a dangerous drug. Its more damaging to the brain than cannabis as it alters its receptors. Even after quitting you can still have years and years of cravings and subconscious desires for nicotine, even if only smoking for 2 years. I know I am dealing with it now. I've not smoked for months but still have a fascination about nicotine that is difficult to shift. Nicotine is the most addictive drug in the world, more addictive that crack or cocaine. Many uses have even said that themselves. I spoke to an ex-heroin addict at work one time. She said she could give up heroin but can't give up nicotine because its so difficult. Nicotine is a major mood affector and your brain is altered by it in the long term.

Alcohol affects the brain, but I'd say it doesn't trigger psychotic episodes,

You reckon? Alcohol can cause psychotic episodes. Some kid in Britain a few years ago killed his friend when he was drunk. He had consumed a ridiculous amount and just went psychotic, murdered his friend and hid his body in a closet. Any mind altering drug can make you go psychotic, it just depends how you use it.

If Cannabis also was legalised, those oh so great drug lords will love you for raking millions off of their addicted slaves, which can be used to fund terrorism, w/e. Your protection over theirs?

If cannabis/drugs was legalised the entire drug culture would be undermined because people would grow it themselves as well as have companies producing them properly. I believe its safer to legalise drugs (after a long long education program on them) than it is to keep them illegal. The only reason people profit in the drug trade is because it is illegal and the only source for drugs is from drug dealers or barons. Legalise it, companies can produce them, educate people and even cut drug usage as well as produce a ridiculous amount of extra tax.

[Lee]

I knew Tom would write a lecture on weed one day.

I actually cba to read everything, simple as, but my 2 cents is that it doesn't run well in my family, so I'm going to steer away from it. I've tried it a few times, was good, had fun. However, after seeing my friends waste their lives on it, I have come to the conclusion that some people can take it, where as others cant.

[Hostile]

http://www.youtube.c...o...ted&search=

Example of a US public service announcement on drugs. Quite interesting to watch. I had to wonder if she was on drugs when they filmed this.

[Soul]

Wtf?

This is better though .

[Ash]

I am dumbfounded at the sheer lack of intelligence portrayed and assumed by those PSAs.

In fact they're so fucked up they shouldn't be aired. Ever.


There is but one real reason why heroin destroys families, jobs and other socio-societal factors of life.

That is the society's attitude to heroin and heroin use.

Let's come up with the synonyms for heroin users, regardless of the amount they use. "Junkie", "Smackhead", etc. Clearly pejorative.

Now let's come up with some for coffee drinkers. While clearly the effect of coffee is not as profound as that of heroin, caffeine is still a highly addictive mind-altering substance upon which your body can become highly dependent.

...

Nope I couldn't think of any either.

Now let's do alcohol users. The only time you see any synonyms for drinkers is if they drink to excess, then you get "piss artist" and "binge drinker."

This indicates that use of caffeine and alcohol (in some degree of moderation) is socially acceptable while use of heroin clearly isn't.

It was only a hundred or so years ago where heroin and gin's societal positions were reversed, even in the UK. Drinking gin was seen as the lowest of the low and would kill you to death. Heroin? EVERYONE was doing it!

Society's view has put heroin users at a disadvantage. While I won't deny the possible health ramifications of using too much of it or too often, I need say only one word to show that's the case with anything. Even ingestions which are needed. That word is 'kebab'.

You eat too many of those, you get fat and die. Same goes for anything in the world. Why is heroin so different?

Its use is generally the same as that of any other recreational drug. It's to bring about some form of escape or release. Those of you who enjoy nights out and a few (dozen) bevvies, ask yourself why you do it. You do it for the social experience, yes, but you can have social experiences without drinking. So why do you get drunk? Because it's a release from your everyday experience! You forget your troubles until the morning. You relax. Your inhibitions lower so you can talk to members of the opposite sex and hopefully have the confidence to ask for their number and whatnot. You forget yourself for those brief few hours of bliss before the inevitable comedown that is the morning-after hangover. Even if you don't get drunk, you get a subconscious knowledge that "yes, this is relaxing time." just by having the pint glass in your hand. Hence the new Bud adverts which play on the idea that it's a reward for your hard work.

But my point is, you do it to achieve escapism, which is a fundamental need for all people, and we each achieve it in a different variety of ways. I write stories. I play videogames. I put my music on and daydream. I drink. Etc.

So, why is what the heroin user doing any different than what I'm doing? Okay he might be addicted and therefore doing it pathologically where I can actually go days without a drink (although I choose not to! ) and therefore may become pathological but that is true of alcohol too. If I drink too much too often I will become alcoholic. However my point is, is what he's doing so terribly wrong?

[Sûlherokhh]

Another point to consider: Much of the negative press that drugs/alcohol/whatnot receive has got to do with the 'possible' side-effects, like psychosys, damaged health etc. But we are talking about the 'dangers' of drug consumption here, not the 100% acquired fate of a drug user. Some people are really susceptible to addiction or mental illness, some are not. Yet we throw them in the same pot. I am pretty sure that an 'almost'-basket case would certainly be able to find a decent trigger for running amok almost 'everywhere'. It can be any kind of accepted 'tool of escapism', be it legal drugs, video games, TV, going to a local soccer game, you name it.

The name of the game shouldn't be 'Prevention of Drug-Use', it should be 'Look for signs and causes of mental illness /mental imbalance, fix it, provide adequate release'. (simplified).

Even if you take away any kind of trigger you can think of, the nutcase will still be a nutcase if the nutcase itself stays illegal/unaccepted/unrecognized. Just look up the early terms of mental illness: deranged (not on the usual track), mad (angry at something maybe unjust), verrückt (german equivalent of 'pushed aside'), all terms that are generally used to signify socially unaccepted or frightening behaviour. And that is what makes this state so 'sick'.

[Cossack]

Legalizing Marijuana would not cause more violence.

Amsterdam has way lower rates of violent crimes and gang violence than almost all Amercian, and Canadian cities because over there is no-one is fighting gover drugs and selling drugs is not an enormous source of income.

I think a poll showed that something like 50% of canadians want Marijuana legalized or at least de-criminalized. It was in the process of being decriminalized until we elected the conservatives....who are now adopting an American style war on drugs.

[partyzanPaulZy]

Personally, I have nothing against "Weed-smokers", when they don't bother me with the smoke. I have the same attitude to smokers of tobacco. Smoke, but don't bother anyone, who doesn't like that smoke. Smoke from cigarettes destroys lungs, smoke from "Ganja" makes you dumb. I know one guy, who has been smoking marijuana. The main problem is many junkies start with marijuana and it's pretty hard to win war on drugs.

[duke_Qa]

Paradox: erm, heroin is something that i believe your body 'permanently' becomes dependant upon when used(in large doses). the more your body acclimatizes to it, the more you are going to need to get back to square one. and once you go far enough down, you are getting close to the overdose-levels to get back up to 'normal'. basically a dance with death that one.

milder drugs are easier to stop using, but drugs like heroin are oceans away from mild drugs like weed. russian roulette of the serious type those. naturally in my opinion all drugs, alcohol, weed, heroin, amfetamine, etc etc are russian roulette depending on your physique, psyche and social situation. its better to be safe than sorry in my opinion. if you feel you got that triangle in control then by all means, go for it. the problem is that when the bullet hits it usually costs much more than its worth.

[Ash]

Paradox: erm, heroin is something that i believe your body 'permanently' becomes dependant upon when used(in large doses). the more your body acclimatizes to it, the more you are going to need to get back to square one. and once you go far enough down, you are getting close to the overdose-levels to get back up to 'normal'. basically a dance with death that one.

I put it to you that it is exactly the same with alcoholism or, indeed, most other addictions. Sure, opiates are a bit tougher on the system but let's be right, all drugs have that exact same effect because they affect neurotransmitters in your head.

Why do you think the ultimate hangover cure is more booze? Chicken and bananas works well too, but the absolute best cure for a hangover is a stiff whisky.

milder drugs are easier to stop using, but drugs like heroin are oceans away from mild drugs like weed. russian roulette of the serious type those. naturally in my opinion all drugs, alcohol, weed, heroin, amfetamine, etc etc are russian roulette depending on your physique, psyche and social situation. its better to be safe than sorry in my opinion. if you feel you got that triangle in control then by all means, go for it. the problem is that when the bullet hits it usually costs much more than its worth.

Hey, I'm not condoning the use of these drugs, but is what they're doing any different than the guy who goes out clubbing, or to a football match, or whatnot? At very least the initial uses of those drugs is an escapism.

Nevertheless I don't see what right the government has to dictate what a guy can or cannot do to himself.

[Hostile]

Considering the comparison between heroin and alcohol. I have to agree. Alcohol is legal heroin is not. Hypocricy? To some extent yes.

But the history of a junkie commiting a crim e to get a fix is more than an alcoholic.

I'd have to say no to legalising anything but natural growing substances. Once it's refined it now becomes a pharmacudical.

There's no hero in heroin. (how stupid, I just came up with that )

[Sûlherokhh]

I just remembered the rampant crime around alcohol during the prohibition in the U.S.. Didn't keep anyone from getting drunk who really wanted to. But it made him/her a criminal. And the illegal trafficking was just as bad and dangerous as trafficking of illegal substances is today. And the U.S. government didn't win the fight. But as long as the fight itself is profitable, why legalize the stuff, eh?

[Ash]

Because to legalise it would be more profitable. And would divert police resources away from targeting people who simply have a problem to people who are actually committing an act of wrongdoing against another person.

Once upon a time, heresy was a crime. So was drinking gin.

Sooner or later, the law'll change again.

Edited by Paradox, 14 October 2007 - 12:56 AM.

[Hostile]

I just remembered the rampant crime around alcohol during the prohibition in the U.S

Damn that was back in the 1920's, if you remember that you must old!