30 replies to this topic

[LordIstari]

All inovations of Elves discus here

[LordIstari]

Ents vs Chariots and ballista

what do you think: maybe replace ents with anything like this

Edited by LordIstari, 16 August 2007 - 07:32 PM.

[gamehuntera]

...And add ents to rohan? Maybe. In first part it looked normal. Elfs must only have ents as special power, i think.

[Dzhon]

If Ents belong with any faction, I'd say it was the Elves. Elvish siege machines seem out of place, esp. in the late 3rd Age. Ents work good for the Elves as tanks, too.

[LordIstari]

ents never WAR for ANY factions ( in films and book) he war only 1 battle (Izengard)

[{IP}jimmyman]

yea i agree with lordistari
if your on those lines of thinking u might as well want to make ents their own faction....

[Dzhon]

The Ents only fought because they were forced to, but that's basically true of the Elves and Dwarves too.

If you're going to argue that Ents don't belong to any faction at all, that's fine. But, if they are included than they make sense being part of the Elves rather than Rohan or another faction.

[LordIstari]

maybe creat netrail building - beast lair (or etc )?

[gamehuntera]

I don't think it's necessary. I mean that nobody - elfs, rohan or gondor can't buy ents with money. But ressurect as special power - it can be. Also I want to observe that in game can be not realistic things - it's a game, not book. So you should do as you want.

[{IP}jimmyman]

yea i agree with you there

[Dzhon]

Not too sure about the exact nature of the Ents, but in the movies, at least, Legolas talks about how the Elves woke up the trees and taught them to speak, etc.

Anyway, other than a couple of volunteers (Elrond's sons, Legolas, and Gimli), the Elves and Dwarves only participated in the WotR in self defense. The Ents are the same way. If, for gameplay's sake, Elrond, Celeborn, King Dain, and others venture beyond their borders to fight Sauron, then so can Treebeard.

[gamehuntera]

Maybe. But in Silmarilion ents created by Javanna.

[Allathar]

Were they? I haven't read Silmarillion for a while, so I don't know... And Dzhon, what you said about the Elves and Dwarves isn't exactly true... Lórien was besieged by Gobbo's from the Misty Mountains, and Dale and Erebor attacked by a huge army from Rhûn. After that they besieged Dol Guldur.

[el kevo]

lorien was also attacked (3 times i think) by dol goldur. Brand died by easterlings while defending erebor and dain dies defending his friends body. so they both have a pretty big reason to go to war

[Dzhon]

Still, that's basically self-defense.

The Lorien Elves didn't really besiege Dol Goldur...they just cleaned it out after the Ring was destroyed. The Easterlings' morale collapsed when they heard of Sauron's fall, which to their being routed by the Dwarves and Men of Dale.

It seems pretty unlikely that the Dwarves or Elves would have sent their forces to Gondor's aid even had they had the option of doing so.

Anyway, back on topic...having Ents as part of the Elven faction seems less strange to me than having Elves build siege machines.

[{IP}jimmyman]

well then answer me this
why do the ships have balistas on them instead of ents?
it would make more sense to carry a smaller woden object instead of a frickin TREE
THANKS YOU GOOD NIGHT

[gamehuntera]

Noldor began siege Morgot without ents, don't you think? They used siege machines.

[Dzhon]

Well, whatever floats your boat. If you think all sides should have a ballista or a catapult in their arsenal, knock yourself out. And, you're right, in EA's world the Elves are building siege warships, so they can build siege machines too.

Just don't use the lore to claim that Treebeard wouldn't fight when you're also having the Galadhrim knocking down woods and building siege machines. Maybe they did that sort of thing in ages past but not by the time of the WotR.

At any rate, no need to fix what isn't broken but, given the talent of LordIstari and others working on this mod, I'm sure the Elven Ballista will look good.

[kotsos13]

If you can edit the model of Gondor's Catapult, remove gondorian soldiers from it and add elven warriors instead. Use the same Skeleton.

And Yavanna didn't create the Ents. Ents were some sort of Spirits of the Forests (possibly Maiar), created by Eru Iluvatar because Yavanna told him thath the fauna (Quenya world for trees and flower and anything green) could not protect themselves. And so He made the Gurdians of the Forests.

[gamehuntera]

No. As I understanded, when Aule questioned Yavanna, what sort of trees she want defend, she answered that one can sort defend theirselves (ents), one can't - usual trees. Spirits was only spirits, they had no body, they lived in trees and guarded them. And not all time of Arda - at third age they wasn't there.

Just don't use the lore to claim that Treebeard wouldn't fight when you're also having the Galadhrim knocking down woods and building siege machines. Maybe they did that sort of thing in ages past but not by the time of the WotR.

Maybe. But siege wars versus Sauron was also in third age, when Gil-Galad and Elendil, Isildur, Elrond, Kirdan and others fight in Last Alliance... So there can be siege weapons.