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Isengard faction


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#121 Grubbo

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 11:58 PM

Apart from that, i think his Hero turning power is misplaced. It wasn't him but Saruman that put the charm on Theoden. The only thing he did was being a spy of Orthanc. He should have some other high end power, and Saruman should have his old power instead.



Totally agreed. It was always Saruman who had the power of persuasion and corruption. Grima was always a weird choice for a hero, never really sat well with me. But if he is to stay, then an appropriate high level power should be either a less powerful version of Saruman's ability to convert units (temporary effect, as opposed to Saruman who should have permanent effect on normal units) or some kind of truesight power, reflecting his ability to predict the reasonable course of actions of his enemies as seen when telling Saruman what Theoden would most likely do (ie. retreat to Helm's Deep).

#122 Uruk-Hai Berserker

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 03:03 AM

What About Uruk-Hai Bowman, like Scout Uruk-Hai Bowman, to go along with the scout Uruk-Hai?

Shield for lurtz when he whips out his scimitar?

Orcs of isengard? to go along with wildmen, to raid and junk.

:p

#123 Wundai

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 02:02 PM

You could also change the name of Grima's power into "blackmail" or "extorsion"(not sure if you write it like that) it would make more sense :lol:

As for Uruk Bows? Why? Whats wrong with the crossbows? I like the crossbow esspecially made for Isengard? :p

P.S. Oh and btw a Lurtz Throwing Shield power would also be very nice, don't know how it would be implemented though, take an arrow animation and change the model to an Uruk Shield?

Edited by Wundai, 08 February 2008 - 02:04 PM.

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#124 Thorongil45

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 07:29 PM

@uruk-hai berserker, do you want cookie cutter factions? that's why i say no to uruk bowmen :p but the orcs of isengard could be a early game guard unit :lol:
@wundai i like the shield throw for lurtz :lol:
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#125 Uruk-Hai Berserker

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 11:19 PM

No I mean, Uruk-Hai Bowman to go with the Scout Uruks And leave in the Crossbow Uruk-Hai for late game ;) See what Im saying?

#126 Grubbo

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 08:35 AM

No I mean, Uruk-Hai Bowman to go with the Scout Uruks And leave in the Crossbow Uruk-Hai for late game ;) See what Im saying?


I see what yer saying, but I don't necessarily agree. Scout units are great, but you don't need corresponding scout units for every type of unit. I think this kind of redundancy works well when the units are without a doubt unique in function, and/or explicitly distinguished within the source material, but I dont think a solid case could be made for Uruk Hai bow men.

#127 Uruk-Hai Berserker

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 03:11 PM

Sul said he liked the Uruk-Hai Bows though :-P (With leaving in crossbows as well)

#128 Grubbo

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 09:02 AM

I know what he said, it doesn't mean that I can't still disagree with the both of you.

So far, not a single actual reason, beyond just saying that you like the idea, has been given that would justify putting uruk bow men into the game. THAT is why I disagree with the idea: I am not convinced that they would serve any vital, distinct function that isn't already being served.

#129 Thorongil45

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 08:01 PM

couldn't have said it better, Grubbo :p
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#130 Guest_Guest_Medicleous_*_*

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 11:21 PM

If you could use Eomer's spear throw anims for Lurtz' shield throw move I think it would look rather cool. Dunno how difficult it is to do that though...

#131 Uruk-Hai Berserker

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 02:08 AM

So what, Uruk-Hai bowman are cool and are real VIA lurtz. What about Uruk-Hai Axe man, come out in groups of five or something like the one that almost severed Marry and Pippin?

Here --> watch that

#132 Wundai

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 09:01 PM

Uruk-Hai Axe man? Why not arm them with machineguns will ya? :)

Nah jk Beserker :) Although I would like to know what Vital role you think these Axeman play?

I mean as a player I would rather build crossbowmen then axemen, although if you make the axes cheap enough who knows...


Eomer spear throw anim is a good idea I think btw ;)
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#133 DragonLord

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 09:27 PM

It would be pretty cool if there was some more hillmen units for a more solid hillmen army... :)
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The Valar had to nerf Dwarves, or we would of taken over the world before it even began... :D

#134 Uruk-Hai Berserker

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 04:30 AM

Why the hell do Towers shoot farther than siege ballistas and catapults? Thats not real at all.

#135 spiderspag

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 04:01 PM

Hello! May I say what an impressive and ambitious mod you have here. I can't wait to get these assignments out of the way so I can play it.
Here's some suggestions for Isengard:

-Remove Wormtongue's portrait from Saruman's "Dominate" power. Saruman dominates on his own.
-Change Saruman's "Speechcraft" power so that instead of adding a minute amount of XP, it provides an XP, attack and damage bonus as with Gandalf.
-I am not sure if you are going down the ROTWK road, but why not add an Alchemist mini-horde, who could have Firebombs and Dark Medicine abilities?
-Remove the Dragonflight power from Isengard and consolidate the Dragon powers under the Goblins. Isengard should have an Avalanche power like Angmar (Saruman brought the mountain down on the Fellowship) as well as Summon Dragon.
-On that note the summoned Dragon is too weak vs. structures. Also, why not give him the ability to paralyze enemy heroes as per the books, and a Fear passive ability?

Best of luck in continuing to develop this great mod!

cheers,
spiderspag

#136 Guest_Guest_Insurance_Salesman_*

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 07:54 PM

This might just be my own, ungrateful opinion, but as much as I love your work on this mod (I especially like the fact that defensive play is feasible now), I feel that Isengard has become too much of an elite force. I have not played the elves, men or dwarves yet, but it seems like the Uruk-hai, at least according to your long and well-written description of your mod on your website, have become incredibly expensive but also incredibly powerful. In essence, I feel that they have become more like what the good factions should be like; strong but few in number. If you watched the movie, however, you noticed that the Uruk-hai were in HUGE numbers compared to the Rohan defenders at Helm's deep, yet they were ultimately defeated because of the bravery and skill of the elven and Rohan defenders.

Overall, I would like it if:

1. The uruks were made cheaper and faster to make, but at a cost to their overall power. They should definately be the elite of the evil factions and maybe even be elite compared to the Rohan foot soldiers; however, they should NOT be stronger than elves, dwarves or Gondorians, who all possessed good training and armour as opposed the basic training that Uruks recieved and the mass-produced armour they recieved.

2. The good civilizations I.E. the dwarves, men and elves, should all be buffed like I mentioned above at the expense of fast training speed and low cost. Obviously, the elves and men should be weaker than the dwarves at close combat, but they both also made good armour and had good training. Likewise, the dwarves and men should be weaker than the elves at ranged combat, but should still be better than the evil factions.

Obviously, you have been working hard already on this fantastic mod, but I would appreciate it if you took my views into consideration for the new patch.

#137 spiderspag

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 05:21 AM

Actually, I'd have to say that in pretty much every scene featuring Uruk-Hai taking on non-hero characters in the movies, the Uruk-Hai always came out on top. They were finally defeated by either a cavalry charge or an army of ghosts.

EDIT: Another suggestion concerning Freezing Rain- to make it as effective as Cloudbreak and Darkness, I suggest that it slowly down all units on the ground as well- or at least lasts longer than it currently does!

And can we please give the Uruk Pikeman the ability to raise/lower their spears so that they can keep up with normal Uruk warriors?

Edited by spiderspag, 26 May 2008 - 08:45 AM.


#138 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 03:49 PM

Actually, I'd have to say that in pretty much every scene featuring Uruk-Hai taking on non-hero characters in the movies, the Uruk-Hai always came out on top. They were finally defeated by either a cavalry charge or an army of ghosts.

EDIT: Another suggestion concerning Freezing Rain- to make it as effective as Cloudbreak and Darkness, I suggest that it slowly down all units on the ground as well- or at least lasts longer than it currently does!

And can we please give the Uruk Pikeman the ability to raise/lower their spears so that they can keep up with normal Uruk warriors?


It could have helped that most of the non-hero characters that ISENGARD uruks (which are the ones I'm talking about) fought were Rohan peasants, who were not very good fighters anyways. The defenders also had 10-20 uruks that they each had to kill in order to balance out the huge numerical advantage that the uruks had. Not exactly a fair fight, hmm?

Anyways, I have changed my mind somewhat. The Uruks should be more powerful than Gondorian soldiers because of their brute strength, although not by much; the Gondorians still had better weapons and armor, even if they lacked the war-like genes of the Uruk-hai. In addition, I believe that the crossbows should do more damage at the expense of firing speed, but that's only a minor complaint.

However, I still believe that the dwarves should be buffed somewhat, although they are already pretty powerful; in addition, the elves should be buffed MASSIVELY in terms of health/armor and close combat skill, although their archery is probably good enough as is (maybe a little buff). Their warriors are some of the most lethal warriors in Middle-Earth with some of the highest quality weapons and pieces of armor among any of the races, yet their basic infantry and cavalry are some of the weakest in the game! At least give them somewhat of a buff...

#139 Hoarmûrath of Dír

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 09:41 PM

well yea for the uruks since there "fearless" maybe they should have the smallest fear so maybe only the really big stuff (mumakils, AOD, Balrog)

thats all i got right now

#140 Insurance Salesman

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 09:42 PM

well yea for the uruks since there "fearless" maybe they should have the smallest fear so maybe only the really big stuff (mumakils, AOD, Balrog)

thats all i got right now


It's a good idea, but considering that the Uruk-Hai were not quite "fearless" when they were getting stabbed, slashed and/or plain run over by the Rohirrim/Hurons/Ents, it doesn't really make sense.

Anyways, just to make it short and sweet for Nazgul (who's quite busy, apparantly), I would like it if the all Uruk-Hai units except Berserkers were made weaker in terms of health/armour and attack strength (if that differs among races) than dwarves and elite good units (like Fountain Guards and Lorien warriors); the Uruk-hai were a mass-produced force, after all, and their strength and thirst for blood can't make up for crappy, mass-produced armor and significantly less training than the forces of Good. However, this terrible armor and training would be faster to produce and cheaper too, so I would suggest lowering their cost and build times.

Also, I would like it if crossbowmen shot slowly, but their bolts were VERY strong. Obviously, however, this would probably be unnecessary work just for "movie-feel", so if you simply took the ideas above into consideration I would be very grateful. Thanks again, Nazgul, for your (and the other modder's) hard work on this awesome mod! :)

Edited by Insurance Salesman, 07 June 2008 - 11:11 PM.





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