56 replies to this topic

[ambershee]

Make Something Unreal! is coming back too

To be honest though, I can't see a BfME mod being granted an engine license. Whilst they may be good mods, they'll never be a Red Orchestra.

[cahik_]

nah...you should see what we have in Rhovanion alliance Ched absolutly rules SAGE engine

[Garrison Nomad]

only thing is that sage engine doesn't support terriforming....-_- still, that would be a cool competition.

[Nazgûl]

What Ched said! ^

[clonecommand]

I finally read the other thread. When it comes to matters of legality, I will always side with the law. hardcore, as in like, the law says this, I will do exactly THAT with NO exceptions. (unless it comes to thing like abortion and whatnot - I'm hardcore conservative)

For example, if EA did not e-mail me back with permission, I would immediatly drop the thought of using the BFME1 intro movie. Even if they don't care enough to send you a reply, it is still ILLEGAL!

Also, I would seriously recommend for you to stop saying BFME1 is:

OBSOLETE/GONE/HISTORY/REMOVED

I could walk in just about any major (electronic) retail store across the U.S. and find BFME1 and 2 side by side sitting on the shelf. It is an incorrect statement and does not help your arguement.

Also:

And even if they did, why would they care about a game that is OBSOLETE/GONE/HISTORY/REMOVED from the market?

They DO care. They still make money off it. Someone owns the copyright (patent for clarification ). Someone gets royalties, etc.

Also, don't assume that people don't care and they don't talk about it, etc, because your ex and her production team may not care, but then again, they probably aren't losing cash. The big wigs and their lawyers care (if they ever learned about it).


I suppose the whole point of this post is to say that a lot of satements you said in that thread WOULD send half of the 27 (or so) government agencies in the U.S. after you. Because they care, too.

I hate it when people try to do things that are truely illegal and write everyone else off by saying no one cares.


But anyways, back to being happy

Edited by clonecommand, 25 July 2007 - 08:04 PM.

[Sûlherokhh]

Well in that case you should also stop the support of modifications and only play unmodded games.

[Garrison Nomad]

wow...paradoxes in this case are fun. How could modding be illegal, anyways? as long as you're not cheating, you haven't done anything wrong.

[clonecommand]

I'm not saying modding is bad. I'm saying taking something from another game and saying its okay because no one cares is wrong and illegal. People that blatantly do illegal things sicken me.
Besides the readme or license in BFME1 says modding is okay...

Not all mods use BFME1 stuff and I won't stop playing this mod, either.

I can only say that I'm glad that Nazgul swallowed his pride and wrote the e-mail (or will). That's all it takes. All little effort into seeing if they don't want you to, and that's good enough for me.

Don't blame me for trying to follow the law if you decide to get puffed up about what I say (that goes out to eveyone).

Edited by clonecommand, 25 July 2007 - 08:46 PM.

[Sûlherokhh]

I don't blame you. But there is a difference between a) following the law blindly without question or any hesitation out of fear of reprisal or out of the desire to please and b) following the law after some consideration and because it makes sense.

I like it better if people think, feel,reflect and consider before they act rather than following (and apparently needing) orders.

The License/Readme may say that it is okay to modify some of the files. But i didn't see that it allows the content to be made available to the public, which almost all mods do.

[Nazgûl]

MAN I'm sick of this discussion and all opinions flying from all over.
So here we go: loooooong reply this time…


Modding has been around for "ages" and the BFME-series is engineered in a way so it is supposed to be modded (be ABLE to be modded). Hence: we have a LOT of mods, for this game and for a LOT of other games! And cause of that, the fans and modding communities keeps the titles alive, even long after they go away from shelves. But most mods will walk a thin line sometimes when it comes to things like this, mostly cause there are seldom any super clear rules…

- What about all sampled voices from the movies?
- What about all ART that ALL mods use from all kinds of sources? They don’t draw them by hand you know… (photos)
- What about all mods using BFME1 stuff in game? Not only the excellent RJ mod, but I’ve seen more mods through there years that have done that.

When it comes to RotWK mods all things BFME2 is ok cause you need that game too, right? But in terms of BFME1 nothing is ok cause you could theoretically refrain from buying BFME1 cause you go, “well I don’t need BFME1 now that I got all BFME1 things I want in this mod”. True, but maybe it would be a little too much assuming that someone would buy BFME1 of the SOLE purpose of getting the Intro, don’t you think?

*Some OffT*
I respect the law as much as anybody else, but I also think the law is f*cked up in many countries/places and I for one wish that we had the same law enforcement in Sweden as you do in that States, and I’m not talking about what people do in front of the computer now, but “REAL” (read: horrible) crimes such as battering, rape and murder, and sick sh*t like that. Do that over there and you get life or worse. Do it here and you get a few years… And when the cops/guards arrest someone here they better watch it carefully so they don’t leave the slightest bruise on the suspect, no matter what the person did. I’d like things to be a little more “zero tolerance” when it comes to those felonies. But that was a side note. I just get terribly upset when little men online try to incline that I do illegal shit, and that means you this time Clone. You’re starting to get to me sometimes with your “all knowing” at 14 . I just have a hard time respecting that, and combined with the fact that I have a million things to keep track of IRL, feeding this discussion with lectures like that just pisses me off. I’m sick of it!

I find myself loosing temper more often these days, and I just wanna say – the second Admin thinks I go to far, just tell me and I’ll take my business elsewhere. I do have my own servers and stuff and I don’t wanna drag T3A down rep wise cause I have a bad temper and sometimes act like a stubborn grumpy old man I’m sorry, but maybe at 34 with a hard life behind you, you’ll be grumpy too

Like I said, I respect the law as any other normal ordinary person. But I’m not religious and I also do not follow the law in every second of my life. I have crossed the street without the green guy. I have refrained from stopping at Stop signs where there’s like 2 miles free sight in every direction. I have received too much change in stores and not gone back. I have received punches and hit them 5 times harder back. I have found stuff and kept it for myself… Stuff like that. That does however not make me a criminal. It makes me normal, and not a robot that follows Big Brother’s every command. If someone says jump, I don’t jump unless I see it needed/have to. None of these things makes me a criminal, and nor does me considering BFME1 to be obsolete. It’s been at least a year since BFME1 was removed from shelves in Sweden, maybe 2. We have BFME Anthology, and some stores have BFME2, and Collector’s Edition. But none have BFME1. Maybe it’s still in the US though, but not here. SO – maybe I’m wrong about the “not being buyable” part, but I still consider BFME1 to be as obsolete as Sims vs Sims 2. A sequel is in most cases not the same as an expansion. Most sequels makes the previous game more or less obsolete (fans not considered). My point is mostly that since we’re not talking about adding half of the game, but rather only a movie, made by EA, into another movie made by EA, from a game that was previous to this game…

Maybe EA will JUMP out of their chairs go absolutely ballistic and demand my IP and name and address, and maybe they would press charges… But for what really? For me combining the movie of an older product with a newer product. You still need to buy BFME2 to use this mod, but I guess your argument is that they should need to buy the BFME1 game too, right? Fair enough, we could always do it the Tutorial way, but I rather hear it from EA first, or I might still take my chances, if only just to piss you off

I’m kidding, I will send the “not to be answered” mail this week, and later when we know for sure they don’t care, I’ll decide what I’m gonna do and ya’ll can decide if I should leave T3A or not . And hey, if I get busted, you guys can half a laugh at me for being so stubborn and stupid right

I love EA, heck I’d even like to work for them, for virtually no money even. Disliking BFME-series is just… well nothing really… it’s just a game and I’m just trying to make it better for me and those like me. I still admire EA as a company. I’m not here to piss anyone off and I’m not here to argue, but the more people this mod attracts, and the more attention it gets, the more I find myself having to defend what I do. That’s highly NOT motivating. You guys made your point, no need to push it any further…

In short: I KNOW WHERE SOME OF YOU STAND, when it comes to this. But please just drop this DRAMA, and let’s just see what they say or not say. I’ll be back…

[ambershee]

For example, if EA did not e-mail me back with permission, I would immediatly drop the thought of using the BFME1 intro movie. Even if they don't care enough to send you a reply, it is still ILLEGAL!

Also, I would seriously recommend for you to stop saying BFME1 is:

OBSOLETE/GONE/HISTORY/REMOVED

I could walk in just about any major (electronic) retail store across the U.S. and find BFME1 and 2 side by side sitting on the shelf. It is an incorrect statement and does not help your arguement.

Also:

And even if they did, why would they care about a game that is OBSOLETE/GONE/HISTORY/REMOVED from the market?

They DO care. They still make money off it. Someone owns the copyright (patent for clarification ). Someone gets royalties, etc.

a) If they don't respond to your request, you can very happily take that as intrinsic evidence that they don't care and you're allowed to do what you want to do - they didn't bother to reply, after all, so it can't be important at all.

b) BfME 1 is far from obsolete. For me, it has a lot of game mechanics that make it significantly better than BfME 2, which I can't even play at all, because I find it pointless and irritating. BfME 1 has the capture point system requiring you to hold / defend positions, and more importantly, in BfME 1, units actually collide with one another instead of running straight through and being able to attack whatever they want to attack anyway, sort of defying the whole point of putting infantry in blocks in the first damn place, and more annoyingly resulting in your units chasing units that walk merrily straight through them half way across the map back to your base...

only thing is that sage engine doesn't support terriforming....-_-

Actually, it does. It's BfME that doesn't. "Terraforming" is as easy as moving a few vertices on the terrain map up and down.

Modding has been around for "ages" and the BFME-series is engineered in a way so it is supposed to be modded (be ABLE to be modded). Hence: we have a LOT of mods, for this game and for a LOT of other games! And cause of that, the fans and modding communities keeps the titles alive, even long after they go away from shelves. But most mods will walk a thin line sometimes when it comes to things like this, mostly cause there are seldom any super clear rules…

Modding, (as are videogames) in its current form is a very new thing. Modding has only really been around for a little more than ten years, less in terms of it being accessible to those who aren't incredibly knowledgeable and talented 'hackers'.

Don't overestimate the importance of modding. It doesn't actually really effect sales or shelf lives of games that much at all, only a select die hard or fairly uptech group of people. The vast majority just buy and play games. They've never heard of mods. In terms of BfME 2, I'm willing to bet that less than 5% of the owners of the game have a clue about modding at all, let alone have downloaded one or even attempted to make one.

BfME itself has very few mods, and even fewer significant ones, whereas games like Quake 3, UT2004 and Half-Life 2 have several hundreds, and some really incredible ones.

- What about all sampled voices from the movies?
- What about all ART that ALL mods use from all kinds of sources? They don’t draw them by hand you know… (photos)
- What about all mods using BFME1 stuff in game? Not only the excellent RJ mod, but I’ve seen more mods through there years that have done that.

Sampled voices are a wrong move, which shouldn't be done. The sampled artwork and BfME 1 sourcing should also not be done. If you look around at more mature mod communities, you'll find that nothing of that sort really happens at all. All of the content is produced solely by the modder. No sourcing or ripping at all. If anything is supposed to look or sound like something, it's still remade, but just fashioned to appear like the original.

At the end of the day, all modding is fairly dubious, but there are certain lines that are generally always drawn. One of those is porting content from one game to another without permission, parallel to porting content from one mod to another without permission, sparking the original discussion.

[clonecommand]

Wow, if you meant to say I'm wrong...You just said half my points EXTREMELY well! :0 Except some of it...which is a religous debate and I know this is not the place for it

There are some (corrupt *cough*) judges that are stupid and give rapists, etc 10-12 years...But if you are a pervert, NEVER go to Texas...you'll either get 200 years (yes, that's 200 folks!) or death (which I consider the most reasonable choice when it comes to murder).

So in other words, you made me extremely proud of my country.

But I loathe (LOATHE!!!!) it when a person brings into discussion that I am 14/younger than them. I HATE that...Unless someone like my dad says that, I'll be like, "So what, for all we know, I might have a higher IQ than you (which ryhmes)" Think back to when you were 17/lower...Do you really think a 14 would have an arguement over this kind of stuff? Heck they'd be killing people for the fun of it and not realize its wrong!

In short without OT, I see that you would never try to rip off EA, so I'm happy

And Sul, I'll bring a quote from my previous post:

unless it comes to thing like abortion and whatnot - I'm hardcore conservative

In other words, if the law says murder is okay, I'm not actually going to kill someone...And I have a seperate law that I follow, but as said before, let's not go there.

Well put post, Naz^ Very well put.

(btw, what's wrong with punching back harder...he punched you first...)

[Bart]

In other words, if the law says murder is okay, I'm not actually going to kill someone...And I have a seperate law that I follow, but as said before, let's not go there.

the law says murder IS ok that is, if you are a soldier and you kill an enemy soldier, or you are attacked by someone and kill them in self defence

[Sûlherokhh]

Technically, you are wrong. Killing in self-defense and killing in combat do not fullfill the motivational and circumstantial conditions of 'murder'.

[clonecommand]

What Sul said^ Murder is when you kill someone in cold blood. But the law says abortion is okay...(ignore I said that )

[adummy]

What Sul said^ Murder is when you kill someone in cold blood.

the law does not care why you killed someone. it cares if you were protecting yourself or not. You can have a very very good reason to kill someone, but if they were not in danger, it is murder.

But the law says abortion is okay...(ignore I said that )

this is a different argument for a different place. Go to the Think Tank if you want to argue about this law with someone. (and you will lose that argument here.)

[clonecommand]

Note that you did not ignore what I said...I said ignore it because I knew it was for a different place...like real-time arguement. I hate losing arguements...The best place to argue is in someone's face

I meant "morally" murder is when you kill someone just because you hated his guts or something. "Legally" is when you don't have a good enough reason.

[Garrison Nomad]

wow...this topic's getting a little harsh. Hope nobody loses any limbs.

don't know why everything has to turn into a giant war....specially over something like this.

[Sûlherokhh]

Yeah. And we are getting OffTopic. Let's stay away from a morality discussion, okay?

[Nazgûl]

*leter to EA ready*
Will send today... ;p

*staying out of the discussion until further notice*