54 replies to this topic

[Juissi]

IMO the Gandalf re-design is pretty much the same as the current Gandalf...Push back blash, sword with lightning, turn white, get mount, shoot beam of light, send out shockwave of some sort.

[MorrisB]

@Juissi: Well, basically I left him the same abilities, but I made them more loyal to the original concept.

"Wrath of Narya" is more Tolkien-ish than the "Word of Power" IMO

@Sheephoof: well...

Mithlond Sentry: this suggestion will most likely get deleted, for the Elves are possibly going to have their new elite pikemen, the Mirkwood King's Guard (or whatever).

To be honest, almost every faction is going to have comple tech trees: basic units, mid-game units, elite late-game units. Sometimes there will be additions (like hero hordes as a certain unit type or weak units - like the hordes of the Thrall Master).

Hobbits: but YES, they DO need a serious boost. And even with that much boost they couldn't match the Soldiers of Gondor because of coming in small groups.

Eomer: Hmm... perhaps you are right, the full-healing effect will be taken out. Apart from that, I don't think it's so powerful, since it lasts only for a short time, plus Eomer is one of the weakest heroes at MotW.

Denethor: well, I never liked Denethor too much... so much that I just can't make a good suggie out of him ; Thanks for the ideas, will be changed.

Gandalf: your idea is quite original, but I would rather use it as a level 4-6 spell ; plus I don't care if an ability is a bit un-original if it's good and fitting to the character.

Treebeard: But yes, he should. The point of this ability is to make Treebeard very effective against enemy wizards, but with your suggie, Treebeard wouldn't get bonus when fighting against Gandalf or Pallando, giving Treebeard less strategic role.

Mouth of Sauron: Perhaps you are right... altrough I usually found Dissent rather useless. Oh well, I think I'll take out Evil Eye...

Vampire Nest: the Vampires appear in the "Silmarilon", alongside with the Werewolves... I possibly dump out this creep base, though, for it won't get implemented, plus in the 3rd age there aren't too many Vampires left in Middle-Earth...

Thanks for feedback. Changes and update coming later today.

[Sheephoof]

I think you're ideas are very good and I enjoyed going through and commenting on them - I always hoped a mod would add something to Gandalf from the books instead of the movies

[MorrisB]

Talking about the books and Gandalf... take a closer look at Gandalf. NOW

[Sheephoof]

Ooo I'm intrigued! Looking

OMG You added my spell to Gandalf /hug

Awesome, and the name I came up with was a little lame, word of command; maybe it could be:

"Power Word: Command"

But thanks

[MorrisB]

Ehehe... I just found the idea very original and then I thought "Hey, with a skill like this who needs that lame Wizard Blast ?"

Anyway, the name will stay the same. I think "Word of Command" is fitting.

[Sheephoof]

BTW with so many ideas for units and everything balance is really important. I've also pictured balance like this.

If a single hero was purchased for 2000 cash, each team should be able to build an army that would cost 2000 and be on a level playing field. Of course if you waste 2000 on swordsman against a fellbeast then thats pointless; but each team should have the potential of an equally costing counter.

To this extent, lets say Sauron cost 10,000 and required the one ring; I think each team should be able to buy an army with 12,000 which could kill him (2000 more due to the stress of finding the ring); elves seem to be the only team that can with silverthorn. Thats an example of an imbalance.

Things get more complicated when you have more than one unit; I mean is it fair that two heroes that come to the cost of 3000 collectively should be taken out by a couple of attack trolls? No. Heroes remain elite units, and as I said before require counters - both heroes should be taken down by approximetly 3000 worth of an army.

The most complicated for balance and cost is heroes and armies. This is when cost most variate in order to drive up production. If an enemy cleverly makes the perfect counter to your situation, you should have to pay a little more to counter his counter and so on, allowing the game to advance.

What made Starcraft so sucesful was it's use of armour counters; every armour type could be countered by a weapon type, which in turn could be counted by a different armour type; and this continues in a circle.

This is a very simplisitc view as Leadership and buildtimes are not gone into detail here, and the concept that a weaker unit should have the potential to beat a stronger unit with the appropriate micro-management (or the game requires no skill and is simply statistics).

It's very complicated and I'm sure it could be explain better, but I hope you understand the basic concept of what I'm saying

[MorrisB]

To be honest... NO

Sorry, but I'm catastrophic and maths and balancing

My speciality is making up ideas and writing stories. I leave the details to IthronAiwendil (the Mod Leader), cos' he knows these things well. You should PM him or Elendil (the other Idea Guy) about the balancing case

[Sheephoof]

I'll wait until I start beta testing the new version before I go on about balance

BTW now you've though of these ideas why not come up with a new faction?

Edited by Sheephoof, 25 September 2007 - 06:40 PM.

[MorrisB]

Well... first, there aren't too many factions I could come up with without suggesting to make mini-faction system. Rohan and the Shire are the only nations those could work as factions on their own right. Every other faction I can think about would be a part of a main faction (like Dol Guldur - Mordor).

Second, making up entire factions is a very hard job and takes a lot of time. Ithron already had enough trouble getting Evil Men and Dorwinion done. Even making a SINGLE new faction with a smaller tech-tree means months of hard work. The basic unit / hero / building / faction concept alone takes up a month or two at least. After that, artwork, renders, animations, coding*...

*not to mention that I know NOTHING about programming...

I MIGHT come up with a new faction idea once, but not in the near future. Hope you understand

[Sheephoof]

I understand; maybe if I come up with a faction on my idea thread, you can pop over and help me out

[IthronAiwendil]

MB's right, making factions is a real pain* (but a lot of fun as well ), so don't expect me to have a third (or fourth) faction in the final release which will hopefully be released by the end of this year or in January... But maybe if I get a bunch of coders or additional art guys the idea of additional factions is possible...

*Especially when each of the factions has to be huge since WotE expands each of the existing factions...

[Sheephoof]

I always found it a shame that you got rid of goblins; I think a 'Moria' faction has real potential :(

[MorrisB]

The idea of having Goblins of Moria as a faction is nice, but they don't have too great role in the history of Middle-Earth due to the fact that they don't have much to do with the other great nations of Middle-Earth, expect for the Battle of the Five Armies and the chasing of the Fellowship in the Mines of Moria. Apart from that, yeah, it would be nice to have them as a faction... if not for else, then for the fun of it (imagines hundreds of gobbos charging towards a Mumakil)

We could make them into a faction... IF Ithron would have time/energy/inspiration/neccesary support* for this.

*"neccesary support" means artists and programmers

[Sheephoof]

How long does it take to become a succesful modeler (which I presume you mean by Artist)? Because I'd be willing to learn if you pointed me in the right direction of where to start

[MorrisB]

I dunno... it depends mainly on the person. For me, it would take at least a year to learn how to make up a better model. And yes, I'm serious. I just can't use modelling programs.

For others with skill and determination (the first isn't neccesary)... 1-2 weeks to learn the basics ?

Eh, ask Elendil or Ithron (they know a few things about modelling), or even Caluadan (he's a great artist, too).

[IthronAiwendil]

It took me a week or so to understand how to make simple editing on EA's models. Binding is still hard for me, but now impossible. So if you follow the tutorials and maybe ask me for help, you could learn how to use RenX pretty quickly

Because we do need modelers/skinners/coders if we want to have the mod ready by the end of this year

[Sheephoof]

I'll get too it! And so as not to stray too far off topic with the theme of ideas; have you ever considered changing the Balrog to make him more like the book? (He is more of a sorceror than a giant bulking monster )

[MorrisB]

I don't think Ithron will change the Balrog currently in use, cos':

1.: making him look like in the book takes some time - and Ithron and the rest of the staff (elvenfury, Pupeteer, jimmyman - these three are map makers - and Caluadan) are already full of work.

2.: the Balrog, while not too loyal to Tolkien, looks friggid' cool

[Puppeteer]

The problem with balancing is that everything should not be balanced. In a normal battle in history, it was never really balanced.

The Battle of Agincourt. Henry V had high ground and Longbowmen. The French had heavily armoured knights, and the army was 6x bigger. BUT Henry V's troops were sick and weak, and outnumbered 6-1. BUT the French had bottlenecked their forces inbetween trees and were going uphill and it was muddy from rains.
This was not balanced. The French would obviously lose, though even without all those factors the French still may have lost minorly because Longbowmen are knight's terror. Balancing is unnatural
Anyway, didn't the books mention that the Balrogs were more darkness than fire?