383 replies to this topic

[Nazgûl]

We already have the Black Uruks of Barad-dûr. I prefer to eventually replace the Evil Men with Morannon Orcs as suggested by Strider.

The biggest problem is that we would need a LOT of new orc models of the same quality as Nightmare's and TDP's...

[King Earnur]

I think that the ones you have now about cover it, unless you add something from Dul Guldur

[Nazgûl]

Yeah, well the problem is not now... it's when we do EvilMen faction and lose all those things from Mordor... Eventually I would like Mordor to be an "all orc" faction and this is what I'm currently leaning towards...

Orc Pit
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Level 1: Gorgoroth Orcs & Archers
Level 2: Morgul Orcs & Pikemen
Level 3: Morannon Orcs & Black Uruks

Support
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4 hordes of Corsairs with extra high damage vs Structures from Flaming Bottles...

(So in other words I think I will leave Corsairs with Mordor and concentrate on Rhûn as the major faction with Harad as the "mini faction" and Khand as support =) Corsairs fit rather good with Mordor I think, just as Dunlendings fit with Isengard... But Easterlings and Haradrim deserve a faction of their own. And that we we can make Mordor more about the vast number of orcs =)

[Harad King]

What are Morannon Orcs?

[Nazgûl]

Orcs of the Black Gate...
http://www.glyphweb....m/morannon.html

[Dzhon]

To repeat a suggestion I made in the Moria thread, I think Orcs should have only mediocre pikemen at best - ones that will suffer casualties to cavalry charges but be cost effective. I don't think the should aquire a formation ability until level 2 or 3 (if at all), but instead rely on swarming enemy cavalry and inflicting flanking damage on them.

In both the books and the films, Orcs did not cope well with cavalry even despite vastly superior numbers. Mordor should cope with cavalry by swarming them with Orcs and then bringing in Trolls to smack them around (or Catapults...or Nazgul...). Strong Orc Pikemen would take away from the faction's uniqueness.

Just my two cents...more BFME1 style unique factions rather than BFME2 style clone ones.

Edited by Dzhon, 08 August 2007 - 02:47 AM.

[Nazgûl]

The Orc pike men are not that strong? My Rohirrim crushes them rather easily?

[Dzhon]

I'm not saying the current ones are bad, just that there would be no need to invent a new Orc (or Uruk, or Troll, etc.) pikemen class to take the place of the Easterlings.

I'd still argue that they shouldn't have a formation until level 2 at the earliest, though.

Edited by Dzhon, 08 August 2007 - 02:48 AM.

[Lord of the Rings Junkie]

I think it would be cool if Mordor gates had a 'watcher statue' upgrade. This would remove the physical doors, and only evil troops could use the gate. Good forces would be stopped from the powerful spell blocking the way, just like in the book. It would also have fear effects. The only way good would get through the gate is to destroy it via siege weapons, or have a hobbit use the phial of galadriel to nullify its effects or something.

It would also be cool if walls could recieve the same 'Morgul Sorcery' upgrade that fortresses can. Cost would be determined by the number of wall segments being upgraded. (i.e, click on wall hub, drag upgraded ghost wall segments over unupgraded wall. Price updates just like you were building a normal wall.)

Edited by Lord of the Rings Junkie, 09 August 2007 - 12:04 AM.

[Nazgûl]

#1) Doubtful...
#2) That I would like too. Not sure how hard it is to add that FX, but it's planned indeed...

[frinkmakesyouthink]

#1) Doubtful...

I kinda like the Gate Watcher idea. You could just use the coding from the Good Postern Gate (the Postern Gate is also a pub in York) but make it visible to the enemy and inspires fear like the normal Watchers.

[clonecommand]

The watcher gate stuff, I wouldn't think would fit, as it would be prob expensive and hard to use.

EDIT: Removed random blather that sorted itself out

Edited by clonecommand, 12 August 2007 - 12:35 AM.

[joris2222]

No I think the Dunlendings and the Corsairs must stay were they are There are a lot of different orcs yet. And in the movies they also fight for Isengard and Mordor

[Strider]

I agree with Joris on this one.

Just something I have to add, make sure that our elite Archers are from Morranon, not Morgul. Orc from Morranon have to be ever vigilant with their bows to shoot down anything that appraoches the Black Gate uninvited.

[Lord of the Rings Junkie]

#1) Doubtful...

I kinda like the Gate Watcher idea. You could just use the coding from the Good Postern Gate (the Postern Gate is also a pub in York) but make it visible to the enemy and inspires fear like the normal Watchers.

Exactly my thinking. The main advantage I see isn't really the fear, but having a gate you can use without having to open it first, thus making your base vulnerable to attack.

[Dzhon]

Since the Evil Men thread got so off track and was closed, I'll make my case for leaving both Harad and Umbar as part of Mordor and, if a new Evil faction is made, having it be Rhun-based with secondary Khand units:

In the films, at least, Sauron's human allies were integrated with the orcs (and had no real connection with each other other than their mutual loyalty to Mordor).

Although it isn't completely certain, the army that captured Dale and besieged Erebor appears to have been mostly or entirely from Rhun. At any rate, it seems highly unlikely that any Haradrim took part in the War in the North, only Pelennor Fields (and a handful at the Black Gate going by the books).

------

As for gameplay and the mod's development. SEE already has a replacement for the Easterlings ready...the less effective but more numerous Orc Pikemen. The Haradrim will be more difficult to replace...at least not without inventing somewhat cheesy equivalents (Elite Orc Archers, Muma-Cloned Great Beasts, etc.) that don't mesh with either Tolkien or PJ's adaptation.

Haradrim fit nicely with Mordor, and the BFME1 style Harad Spearmen would make a good addition as the Tier 1 unit of the Harad palace (they were great to mix with Orcs in BFME1, dealing the heavy damage while the Orcs absorbed hits). On the other hand, they are either of little use or redundant when lined up with Rhun's. The Easterlings should have superior infantry and cavalry compared to Harad, and the Mumakil won't be as valuable an addition to a faction that is likely to possess good armored cavalry and chariots.

At least leave Mordor intact minus the Easterlings in future releases while you begin to construct the core of the Evil Men faction (or whatever its name winds up being) with Easterling units and buildings. I think you'll find there's enough material to work with that you can leave the Haradrim with Mordor along with the Corsairs.

As always, love the mod no matter what...

Edited by Dzhon, 14 August 2007 - 10:06 AM.

[Garrison Nomad]

If you plan on having morgal, gogroroth, ungol units for each type of unit,(Pikes, archers etc.) you should just give them their own building which is unlockable when the weaker building is lvl 3. (It might be possible to reskin some buildings.) Not for everyone though. And just for kicks maybe you could trigger the animation the troll gets when he gets hit with wizard blast, for when he gets hit with a rock.

building reskin is HELL....and u get too many errors if you do the rock thing, and plus they already fall over.

*waits to be shot down matter-of-factly by Naz*

Edited by Garrison Nomad, 14 August 2007 - 08:11 PM.

[Witch-King of Angmar]

Unlimited Range for Gorgoroth Spire Fireball from the Fortress