22 replies to this topic

[robnkarla]

Well, I've been trying to figure out how I want to make the archer stay still, or at least not go all the way across the map attacking units. So I've come up with something that I wanted to check with everyone to see if this would work for you.

Currently, the defensive stance reduces speed, increases armor, & reduces attack. The reduction in speed REALLY helps this out, but I wanted to be able to be able to split the speed changes from the armor/attack changes.

So here is the plan that I'm thinking.
1) I'll remove the speed change from the stance
2) Add a command that basically toggles their speed that is not included in their palintir. (Type "G" and your archers slow down). This way if you want to use it, you can.

Well, let me know. I've tested this to make sure it works. It's a bit of coding for each unit, but I think it's worth it. If you have other ideas, I would not mind hearing them.

Robert J.

[Devon]

what about having a new formation button, which completely limits movement, but improves their accuracy too. makes sense from a realistic kind of way too.

[robnkarla]

That is in essence what I am doing, the command would switch for the formation with an attribute modifier.

I can always add more things other than speed for the formation.

[Lord_Denethor]

Wasn't there a hold ground command in BFME 1, like a hot key you could use? I mean if that was possible that would be sweet, but if they held their ground would they still attack enemies?

[astrinax]

this is easily one of the things that is the most annoying thing in the entire game. especially playing a fortress like helms deep with archers on the wall. as soon as there is an opening in the door or the other thing, they run out no matter what you tell them to do, i usually just have them use their volly command to make them stay put. but they look dumb when they fire at nothing.

[Distant]

It is common that I feel inadequate to post to a thread, but it is rare indeed that I feel inadequate to vote on a poll. It has been my experience that my archers tend to whip ass if left to themselves so long as I take care to deal with incoming cavalry appropriately. I’d like to know under what situations I might experience this problem that seems to plague enough of you to warrant this fix, so that I might try to find the error myself and develop an opinion.

[Jepa]

You mean that you can command your archers to stand till and still fire? If thats what you mean so yes do a thing like that I hate when you put the archers on the wall and they run away.

Edited by Jepa, 29 July 2007 - 09:59 AM.

[Allathar]

This sure would be a nice addition, since it is one of the most annoying aspects of rotwk.

[dojob]

So wait is this new stance basically gonna make them stand still but they still shoot at stuff that comes close? Because that would be nice

[el kevo]

could you also do that for ranged heroes

[Dalf32]

that wuld b awesome if it culd work on walls. i mean its so annoyin that as soon as an enemy unit walks up 2 the wall, all the archers run off and try 2 slap the enemies in the face.

[Devon]

actually, currently if you put them on agressive they wont run off the wall and attack anyone they see which they do on standard, its a temporary fix, and sometimes it goes wrong, but its still better than nothing.

[robnkarla]

I am attempting to make them stand still and fire. To fix this, the formation would do a couple of things:

1) Limit movement speed (20%-40%). They won't be stuck in place, but instead they will move slowly enough to be under stricter control.
2) Lower vision so that Vision = Attack Range. One reason why archers tend to run off is because they see the enemy outside of their attack range, but they know they have an open route to them so they will follow it until they can attack. If they are on a wall, they will leave the wall and go through a postern gate/gate to attack.

So if I can give all archers a formation that accomplishes the two above items, I believe we will be way ahead of where we are now. It won't be perfect, but at least it's getting there.

[Devon]

i would prefer to see them completely halt, but w/e. sounds great.

[Sûlherokhh]

I had this done for all SEE archers, including heroes. WeaponRange = VisionRange. Be mindful to do the same for the HordeVisionRange and the Rangefinders they use. EA was very inconsistent with those things, so i decided to rework the complete weapon.ini.
Things you should make sure of are:
a) The hordes should shoot and see 75-100 range units less than the hordemembers, depending on the size of the horde and the XY offset of the hordemembers from the horde center (which is the point from which horde distances are measured). If the horde can see and shoot too far, not all members actually see the target and therefore don't shoot.
b) Make sure that the vision/range bonus for HEIGHT (in object AND weapon) is the same for all hordemembers AND for the horde. EA randomly used 1% and 2%. Make it the same, whichever you choose, or they will start running when seeing enemies while having an elevated position (wall or hill).

If you have any problems with this, write me a pm.

I never bothered with an additional formation. There were some button constrains involved for some of the archer units with lots of buttons used up. But i had this idea right from the start. Go for it!

Edited by Sûlherokhh, 29 July 2007 - 08:55 PM.

[robnkarla]

Hey Sul,

Thanks for the post. I knew you had done something for this, but I never heard exactly what you did. I'm glad to hear that I'm not going down a path that will lead to problems.

As for the formation, it is not needed, but I figured it could give the archers a guard/plant status. It would give a negative speed adjustment with a vision/range bonus as well seperate from the stances. As for buttons, I'm not planning on using a button but more of a shortcut key so I won't take up buttons on some of the archers that do not have spaces.

Thank you for the heads up I've got a lot of archers ahead of me especially with all of the combo horde coding
Robert J.

Edited by robnkarla, 29 July 2007 - 09:04 PM.

[Sûlherokhh]

There is one shortcut already: 's' (for stop). Works like a charm.

[{IP}jimmyman]

yes thats what i was about to post i guess ea should be more clear on their stuff

Edited by jimmyman, 01 August 2007 - 12:45 AM.

[The Best Guest]

I voted Yes.

[Dzhon]

I think this is a good idea.

In general, I would like to see stances become a pure behavioral tool and leave the speed/armor/attack changes for formations.