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Poll: Soo... Which do you...?

Use most

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#1 Jeeves

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 02:49 AM

So anyway, I'm currently testing a range of browsers, and was wondering what peoples preferences were, what you have, what you hate, and what I've missed :xcahik_:
So far I'm only working with graphical browsers, of which I have:
  • Amaya
  • IE3.0
  • IE4.01 (but it doesn't work)
  • IE5.01
  • IE5.55
  • IE6
  • IE7
  • Firefox1.5 (yes, I got both working!)
  • Firefox2
  • Netscape 9
  • Opera
  • Safari
As I'm slowly using each until I get used to using them, discover their perks and problems, and can thus give less bias reviews (OPERA > ALL!!!), I won't point out that Opera > All.

If there are any other browsers anyone uses, please post so I can try them.

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#2 Jeeves

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 03:27 AM

Ok, who the hell hated "other" the most without posting?

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#3 Blodo

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 03:55 AM

I voted "Other" cause there is no "All other" option :xcahik_: Though seriously, if you're good enough (like me) you can make your webpages work in any browser, thus eliminating the hate.

Though I do have to admit; for a browser that is supposed to be the most compliant, Firefox does give me the most problems. Especially it's exceedingly buggy javascript implementation.

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#4 Jeeves

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 03:59 AM

Well, a good place to start would be that it works (CSS 2.1, XHTML 1.1, HTML 4.01, WML 2.0, ECMAScript, DOM 2 and SVG 1.1 basic)
A good following point would be that it not only does a lot (not always important, depends what you want), but does it easily (such as fully intergrated search (keywords in addressbar, rather than a seperate box; e.g: "g something" would do a google search on "something"), fastforward, voice and mouse shortcuts, quicklaunch, and trashcan)
Then theres always the fact its as secure as browsers get, faster than FF or IE (trust me, my connection and system are both slow enough to make this noticeable), accessible (voice, zoom, stylesheet changing, toggle gfx and ss)
Lastly, theres the fact that when I'm not viewing the web I like writing the web, and the ability to make changes and reload from catch, the devtools for DOM JS and CSS, shortcut for validation and the fact that it correctly uses media type stylesheets (printing uses print, fullscreen projection, smallscreen mobile, handheld, etc.)

Theres s***loads of other stuff, but they're the main reasons I use it. To me it just seems a lot of browsers just try to cram in features and overlook the basic fact that web browsers are meant to render web pages, and most don't do it as well as they could. The two exceptions I find are Opera and Safari both work beautifully, but of them, I find Opera easily the more efficient to use, and most useful when not just reading a screen.
Likewise, when I'm at TAFE and just want to look at some pages rather than write anything or keep dozens of pages going at once (tab control in Safari is f*****), then Safari is my browser of choice.

EDIT @ Blodo: Likewise, FF can be a real pain sometimes. But then, check Opera, IE, and FF features and look for which doesn't mention CSS support :xcahik_:

EDIT AGAIN: So wait, neither of you have other browsers installed? :p

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#5 Jeeves

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 05:37 AM

Well as I said, one of the main reasons I use Opera is the ease of use, but if you don't use mouse shortcuts or anything then FF is probably easier for you :xcahik_:
Thats why I'm going to use each browser for long enough to get used to them before I bother reviewing too much - eventually I should even get used to using [ctrl]+[{] to change tabs in Safari :p

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#6 Jeeves

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 08:02 AM

The best bit with Safari is probably the EULA, but you only see that once :xcahik_:
"Don't use to guide WMD's or operate nukes" "Apple software is featureless ugly and unsatisfactory to use - please acknowledge" etc.

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#7 Jeeves

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 09:40 AM

I know, but then, Apple had to get something right eventually, even if it is just the amusement factor of their acknowledged-to-be-inferior products :xcahik_:

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#8 Phil

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 10:36 AM

I'm still having the most problems with IE... and I'm not speaking of IE6 (I've stopped fixing stuff for that one anyway).
I admit that Opera is better, but I'm still using FF for the extensions.

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#9 Hogo

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 02:19 PM

I use firefox. Gives me Many troubles with Java Stuff but besides that its all good ;)

#10 Ash

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 02:30 PM

I use Firefox. I have IE7 but I think it's only ever opened when I need to do a windows update.

I tried Opera once. There was something I just didn't like though I couldn't point it out then and I can't remember what it is now.

#11 Beowulf

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 07:33 PM

I use IE7 primarily but I use FF2 occasionally. Fave is ztill FF though. Can't beat extensions. ;)

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#12 jnengland77

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 08:40 PM

I'm currently using Epiphany, Gnome's Default browser, but usally use FF2. Although I hate FF2, but can't really get rid of because of nice extensions. ;) Epiphany has quite a few more extensions now, and can almost get rid of FF2.

I would use Konquror, but I don't really like KDE. I can't wait till Epiphany switches from gecko to khtml/webkit. Khtml is probably the best html render. No wonder Apple branched khtml to make webkit (webcore and jscore [Konqurors js support sucks]). ;) Khtml and Webkit are being brought together again.

I've tried Opera, but didn't really like it; for some reason it's always felt like a toy using it.

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Edited by jnengland77, 10 August 2007 - 08:41 PM.


#13 Hogo

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 10:08 PM

I use IE7 primarily but I use FF2 occasionally. Fave is ztill FF though. Can't beat extensions. :good:


Whats diferent about FF2 than FF normal?

#14 Jeeves

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 06:10 AM

Link!

  • Visual Refresh: Firefox 2's theme and user interface have been updated to improve usability without altering the familiarity of the browsing experience.
  • Built-in phishing protection: Phishing Protection warns users when they encounter suspected Web forgeries, and offers to return the user to their home page. Phishing Protection is turned on by default, and works by checking sites against either a local or online list of known phishing sites. This list is automatically downloaded and regularly updated when the Phishing Protection feature is enabled.
  • Enhanced search capabilities: Search term suggestions will now appear as users type in the integrated search box when using the Google, Yahoo! or Answers.com search engines. A new search engine manager makes it easier to add, remove and re-order search engines, and users will be alerted when Firefox encounters a website that offers new search engines that the user may wish to install.
  • Improved tabbed browsing: By default, Firefox will open links in new tabs instead of new windows, and each tab will now have a close tab button. Power users who open more tabs than can fit in a single window will see arrows on the left and right side of the tab strip that let them scroll back and forth between their tabs. The History menu will keep a list of recently closed tabs, and a shortcut lets users quickly re-open an accidentally closed tab.
  • Resuming your browsing session: The Session Restore feature restores windows, tabs, text typed in forms, and in-progress downloads from the last user session. It will be activated automatically when installing an application update or extension, and users will be asked if they want to resume their previous session after a system crash.
  • Previewing and subscribing to Web feeds: Users can decide how to handle Web feeds (like this one), either subscribing to them via a Web service or in a standalone RSS reader, or adding them as Live Bookmarks. My Yahoo!, Bloglines and Google Reader come pre-loaded as Web service options, but users can add any Web service that handles RSS feeds.
  • Inline spell checking: A new built-in spell checker enables users to quickly check the spelling of text entered into Web forms (like this one) without having to use a separate application.
  • Live Titles: When a website offers a microsummary (a regularly updated summary of the most important information on a Web page), users can create a bookmark with a "Live Title". Compact enough to fit in the space available to a bookmark label, they provide more useful information about pages than static page titles, and are regularly updated with the latest information. There are several websites that can be bookmarked with Live Titles, and even more add-ons to generate Live Titles for other popular websites.
  • Improved Add-ons manager: The new Add-ons manager improves the user interface for managing extensions and themes, combining them both in a single tool.
  • JavaScript 1.7: JavaScript 1.7 is a language update introducing several new features such as generators, iterators, array comprehensions, let expressions, and destructuring assignments. It also includes all the features of JavaScript 1.6.
  • Extended search plugin format: The Firefox search engine format now supports search engine plugins written in Sherlock and OpenSearch formats and allows search engines to provide search term suggestions.
  • Updates to the extension system: The extension system has been updated to provide enhanced security and to allow for easier localization of extensions.
  • Client-side session and persistent storage: New support for storing structured data on the client side, to enable better handling of online transactions and improved performance when dealing with large amounts of data, such as documents and mailboxes. This is based on the WHATWG specification for client-side session and persistent storage.
  • SVG text: Support for the svg:textpath specification enables SVG text to follow a curve or shape.
  • New Windows installer: Based on Nullsoft Scriptable Install System, the new Windows installer resolves many long-standing issues.

So nothing too special, but the inline spellchecker is the only feature of FF that I like. (Of course, Opera can do a Office-style spellcheck of text areas, so the only feature really unique to FF2 is the livetitles, which just writes the contents of a url specified by a link in the head into plaintext, then into a bookmark title for the page.)
<link rel="microsummary" href="urlgoeshere" />

I've been using FF over a week now and still am yet to realise the cause of all the hype FF seems to get. Yes, its better than IE. But no, its not that great, and the fact its supposed to render webpages correctly (and doesn't, nor does it always execute scripts correctly) seems completely overlooked by developers because its more fun to write a silly little extension to do something that isn't browsing the net, than it is to fix its js and css bugs. Ironically its this feature-creep that caused the development of FF out of the chunkier Mozilla in the first place, which I'm sure wouldn't be any worse at rendering.

If you want websites to work, use Safari. If you want websites to work and features, use Opera. If you want websites to work fairly well, and don't want to use Safari, I'd probably suggest IE7 before FF2 because despite the fact FF3 is rumoured to pass the Acid2 test, and much to everyones shock, Microsoft are making more of an effort towards recognising standards than Mozilla. Yes, thats right - IE is getting better whilst FF is worrying about adding features no other browser uses based off non-standard and fanboy-only used link tags and silly extensions.

Perhaps my expectations for FF were a bit high. Perhaps its just hype. Either way, I am using it without extensions because I don't think one can fairly assess browsers if you're using non-standard changes to the product before reviewing it, but it seems these are the only thing left that can make it great, but I still can't see a "rendering" category in their list...

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#15 Phil

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 08:39 AM

You have no idea what you are talking about. Might be that Opera's standard compliance is better than FF's but IE's is still worse.
And what you call silly little extensions can be extremely useful for web developers (or those who think they are :good: ), The Web Developer Toolbar comes with more features than Opera has built in, even if you think Opera has all it needs. And my personal favourites, LiveHTTPHeaders and TamperData are ace when testing web applications.
FF was designed to be a light, solid browser that people can cutomise and upgrade to their liking, that's what the extensions are for in the first place.

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#16 Jeeves

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:18 AM

IE's may be worse, but not all the changes from 6 to 7 are gui, theres a vast improvement in CSS support and they've finally got png's working. FF1.5 to 2 ignored its shortcomings as a browser and just went with new/tweaked features. Respect for IE +1, Respect for FF -1.
And I'm not suggesting there aren't many many useful programs you can download, I'm just saying I think a browser should be a useful tool for browsing before anything else, and you're never going to get a decent comparisan between a set of tools if one of them includes 1831 additional programs plugged in. There are ****loads of useful programs out there, as plugins or standalone apps, but by itself, which is as I'm using it, what jumps out most with FF is the inline spellcheck and a handfull of bugs.

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#17 Phil

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:58 AM

Yeah, but IE with improvement is still far worse than FF without improvement. Looks kinda clear to me which one I'd pick. And from what I can see, it will still take M$ a while to catch up with the rest if they continue at this pace.
I also had the impression that the people developing the extensions are not the core developers. I may be mistaken though, I haven't really checked that.

Seriously, IE is still shit. It has improved a lot, most likely as a direct result to the new competition, but it's not as good as the rest. If you want to trash FF for its standard compliance weaknesses, at least acknowledge that it has played an important role in launching this whole debate ;)

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#18 MCV

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 05:22 AM

Yeah, but how do you use iTunes to develop a WMD?

I wanna know, just so I can breach the EULA in this fashion


Make an oral instruction (Podcast??) about how to make a nuke, and distribute it. Everybody who plays the mp3 in iTunes just broke the EULA.
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#19 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 03:03 PM

i would follow all those guidelines you just said.

#20 Black Rose

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 08:48 PM

I use Mozilla's: Firefox, SeaMonkey, Thunderbird, and Sunbird.
as well as IE6, hate 7 because of Microsoft's spyware.
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