69 replies to this topic

[Eldarion25]

I think he really overreacted, but still, you guys just scared off a perfectly fine guest. Nobody likes n00bs, but this isn't going to help. Everybody already knew not to let a n00b take everybody's work and call it their own, but now nobody will let us use anything, even with all the progress we've shown so far. n00bs are still going to come, no matter what you do, and they'll still be as n00by as before, even if we show them these things: a perfect example is WK. He's been shown the n00b topic too many times to count, and he still doesn't follow it. This is sorta going a little too far, considering that some people won't give any of their models to anybody now.

Edited by Eldarion25, 13 August 2007 - 01:23 PM.

[Radspakr Wolfbane]

No Offense But I'm Not A Member And I Wanna Mod So I Wanna Be A Member, But Mainly Because I Thought That People Had Generosity Beyond What You Said. I Mean, There's A Lot Of Stuff Not Covered In T3A's Articles And If You Veterans Won't Share A Bit Of Code Or A Skin Every Once In A While, Then I'm Not Sure If It Worth Consideration. I Mean, I Wanna Join, But Not As Much. Thanks A Lot Hostile.

Why Is Every Word Capatailsed?

I think it's totally called for he's not trying to scare off any new members but meerly trying to keep this community creative and productive.
It can be very fustrating seeing these n00b topics asking for donations and ideas or people releasing mods with a lot of other peoples work.

To be a seasoned and respected modder it takes a lot of work and through that work the quality of mods is greatly increased.

It's all about respect and patience.

hmmm this might come out sounding long winded

[halbarad]

No Offense But I'm Not A Member And I Wanna Mod So I Wanna Be A Member, But Mainly Because I Thought That People Had Generosity Beyond What You Said. I Mean, There's A Lot Of Stuff Not Covered In T3A's Articles And If You Veterans Won't Share A Bit Of Code Or A Skin Every Once In A While, Then I'm Not Sure If It Worth Consideration. I Mean, I Wanna Join, But Not As Much. Thanks A Lot Hostile.

the best bit about modding is finding out how to do it yourself, anybody here will help you out if your stuck on a little thing, but simply asking "how do i do this" without trying at all is pointless really. you may as well just play somebody else's mod.

[Lauri]

Dear Guest.... You've got it all wrong
We are mostly talking about models and skins when we say that you shouldn't go asking about getting them When you post questions in the forums, any decent member, which is quite alot, will come running if they know the answer
But, you should try first, and if you don't get it right, then come with your problems, and we do our best to help
And no, we haven't gone to far...

[Eldarion25]

When our mod has been showing decent work, and we ask for one model, just one model, and we get turned down every time because of this thread, that's why I'm upset about it. Some people are taking this way too seriously. Not all, but some. Also, I explained more in my last post ^

Edited by Eldarion25, 13 August 2007 - 01:25 PM.

[Lauri]

[rant]
Do they say "fick off you freaking n00b newbie starter, this is all my model"?
I for one, don't like to give away my stuff, and I never do, and most don't do it...
Some however, are nicer and might share a model, usually for a fee... (something in return...)
And you have no reason to blame this thread...

And out of curiosity, how come "decent" is the word you used to descibe the work of your mod? I mean, all I can see is a couple of in-game screenshots, alot of white models, and a very lot of palantir images...
I don't care about your mod, because frankly, it's got very littly fame, and very little "real" work to show off, and, it's for RotWK () So I would not have given you a model if you would've asked me, because I don't think the mod is good enough... If you can't create your own models, there is no way you could depend on donations I, and others, might be afraid you'd ask for more after you've got one model...

Anyways, my point in this rant is not to bring you down, but to bring you to the light Some admins, or regulars, might find this post stupid, but this is what I'm gonna say.. Return of the Eldar is a new mod, atleast not old, and it's got alot of potensional I think, and I'd very much like to see the mod get through, but you must learn what Hostile said in the first post, simple as that....
[/rant]

[Juissi]

^Agreed
Like Lauri, even though Im part of that group who sometimes share models or even do them even though they dont have any use for them in their own mods, even I have some limitations. If I have spent last 5 hours trying to perfect lets say armour of some numenorian soldier, I just cant give that away.

Its just so much work to give away and on another note, if you do the skin yourself it teaches you to do better skins later
I know that in the starting times of my mod, I asked for couple or so models from other people but I did my best to thank them and I asked very politely I think

And about the mod you are working Eldarion25. One reason might also be that if I remember right, at one point LOTG basicly just gathered all the free model renders he could find from T3A site and showed them off in his thread. Even though the work was credited, thats just little wierd. Why not put it in-game atleast ?

And I also think that no-one has over acted in this situation even though it might look like it.

[Lif-alan]

As a mapper dont know much of what is being talked about. but if if the world was all happy and freindly and everyone gave their work away as redily as their own shit, we might as well make 24 variations of
"the most superest awsomest truly most amazingest mod ever"

[Eonwe]

That brings me a Idea Juissi, but I have to agree, most hosted mods after reading this now do not want to share at least one model.

[m@tt]

I wouldn't say that. If anything, this thread has made some people realise that they shouldn't give their work out too freely. Not stop giving their work out.

Too many times we have seen mods start, with no skill (unless you call palentir art a skill) and work from donations. Eventually they can't get any donations and the mod dies (How many dead mods have you been involved with Eonwe? ).

Therefore, if anything, this thread is encouraging members to only give stuff out to mods that can last the distance.

Not getting donations hopefully encourages "modders" to actually mod for themselves. Donations will come later - you can sort of see it as a reward.

So stop moaning, start modding!

Edited by mh_gollum, 14 August 2007 - 07:13 PM.

[Juissi]

@mh_gollum; Agreed. I think that the start is the hardest for every mod but after you get some things in-game and have good plans, its getting alot easier.

[Dindi]

also people ask for decent models and skins but then they look silly sitting next to some not so good ones, also skinning and modeling is really not that hard. for some reason there is a myth out there that new people think modeling is hard and you have to have the decent tools. i still use gimp and renx and i can make half decent stuff and stuff from scratch.

[Juissi]

And also one thing should be noted. One very succesful mod, Battles of Gondor, was mainly being done by skinner/coder so models arent really even necessary even though there was quite many models donated into BOG but what Im saying is that it is no where near to impossible getting great mod done using only skins.

[Dain Ironfoot]

I'd rather someone used a rubbish piece of art that at least they put some effort into rather than borrowing someone elses stuff or recolouring EA stuff.

But thats just me.

[halbarad]

[rant] ...learn what Hostile said in the first post, simple as that....
[/rant]

[joking]
using code to show what we're doing is sooo cool
[/joking]

this whole argument is messed up, if your asking other people for models/skins then your missing the point of modding...

Edited by halbarad, 15 August 2007 - 07:10 PM.

[Rob38]

I'd rather someone used a rubbish piece of art that at least they put some effort into rather than borrowing someone elses stuff or recolouring EA stuff.
But thats just me.

Well, many mods, like mine, don't have huge teams like RA does so I completely disagree with this statement. I swear, it's coming to the point where everyone is having second thoughts about sharing information and models. This is a modding community...what makes it so strong is the ability for people to come together and share knowledge and talent. Now that doesn't mean that everyone should just give away their models and/or work freely. It means that we are all willing to help each other out and we are all trying our best to make each mod as good as it possibly can be. That's what T3A is about...

You guys are making it sound like receiving donated models is a bad thing and should not be done... well than why don't you try to learn everything by yourself and create a mod without using any donated material or modifying EA'S stuff...

Edited by Rob38, 16 August 2007 - 02:15 AM.

[m@tt]

Dain didn't mention anything about RA or teams....

There's nothing wrong with donating models. All we're saying is that people need to starting learning skills, instead of basing "their" mod off other peoples work. Because in the majority of cases, the mod dies once the donations dry up because the "modder" never bothered to persevere with modding.

Btw, Sharing Knowledge =/= Sharing Models, you learn very little if anything from copy and pasting some basic code to make the model usable.

Helping = giving advice and critique. That's what a community does.

[Lauri]

I'm sure many of you is missing a point here....

You guys are making it sound like receiving donated models is a bad thing and should not be done...

I don't have ANYTHING against that, and I doubt many have. If someone wants to contribute to you, don't stop them because you don't want to be hung on the wall

But comming here and ASKING for models and skins and what-not, that's the issue we're talking about Atleast for big stuff, and especially when you ask someone personally...

Like you Rob, you made that topic in your forum with things that you wanted to get, mostly models... You asked for help for those things, and if I'm correct, all of those things are done now, aye? A hosted mod should indeed be allowed to make topics like that, and you didn't demand anything. I even made you that Aragorn, remember? Things like that I don't have anything against

It's when you want someone else's work it's troubeling... when you aren't approched by the maker..

[robnkarla]

I personally feel that the question of these donated/community objects found within a mod comes to a specific test:

- If you take out all donated/free stuff in the mod, can the mod stand on it's own legs? Is there a reason for the mod other than just adding other mod's stuff?

If the whole purpose of your mod is some massive gameplay changes where the major empasis is on coding/mapping/scripting, I don't feel it's bad or wrong in any sense to seek help in the areas that you can't do because of lack of ability/time, but I think first and foremost you must focus always on the areas that you can do. The large majority of your mod should stay yours (whether that it is coding/maps/campaign/skins/modelling/etc).

Finish or really develop those areas to estabilish yourself as to your capabilities. A fanastic mod can be created by coding alone, and with simple coding you can create a fantastic mod with skinning, modelling, mapping, etc.

Just my 2 cents. Above all, create a mod that is unique and that can stand on it's own before it uses anyone elses materials. And if you can reach that point, then I think you've been able to establish yourself as a modder.

Robert J.

Edited by robnkarla, 15 August 2007 - 09:16 PM.