25 replies to this topic

[Starmie]

I realise that this is an extremely sensitive issue, but I am not probing, I really don't care about this board's members' sexualities. I'm merely asking for an opinion. If you don't wish to leave a comment, feel free, but I would prefer a reason for your vote.

And just to make it worse for the first voter, I'm going to sit on the fence and give a null vote.

[Soul]

Ok to the first question I'm accepting, I don't really mind those kinds of people, unless there rude to me, but it'll just be that person/persons really.

To the second question I'm in between, I really want to stay out of that discussion tbh.

So that's what I have to say, let's hope this topic doesn't go downhill.

[narboza22]

1) Who the hell am I to judge what people like? Everyone is entitled to be themselves.

2) Pretty much the same as #1.

3) These topics are two of the reasons that I am now an atheist.

[Sûlherokhh]

I think the question should also be considered in the light of being confronted with above mentioned sexual orientations and how one deals with it.
Maybe an additional poll question ('do you ignore/deny the matter until confronted or are you expecting others you meet to possibly be homosexual/bisexual?') would actually show a more precise stance on the matter.

I voted VA on both counts, and my experience has shown that meeting someone who is not strictly heterosexual is pretty common. Bisexuality is of course hard to spot (for reasons i won't get into now) so it tends to show only when you get to know someone pretty well.

[Banshee]

If the person wanna be homossexual or bissexual or change their gender... it's their business, not mine. As long as this person respects me as heterossexual, I'm fine with it. Regarding transgender, the same thing applies... but I don't want to have any kind of sexual relationship with males that became females..

[Elvenlord]

1) I don't care, as long as a guy doesn't start hitting on me. That would be........creepy.....

2) Same. I don't give a damn what other people say or do.

3)Answered 3, 4, or 5

[Sûlherokhh]

If the person wanna be homossexual or bissexual or change their gender... it's their business, not mine. As long as this person respects me as heterossexual, I'm fine with it. Regarding transgender, the same thing applies... but I don't want to have any kind of sexual relationship with males that became females..

I would like to ask what exactly describes 'being respectful'.

• Would it be unrespectful to disclose this state to you when talking to you (assuming now that talking about heterosex in general isn't disrespectful)?
• Would hitting on you be disrespectful (even though it would show your attractive potential and should be rather flattering)?
• Would two men or two women kissing each other publicly be disrespectful (also assuming that public kissing between opposite sexes is acceptable)?

And one more:

• Would it be disrepectful to NOT assume that anyone you meet is heterosexual, thereby legitimizing (sexual) advances of the homosexual kind (assuming sexual advances in general are acceptable)?

And i agree with you regarding unconsenting sex. That's just never allright. Period.
But it also has to be said that there is no correlation, positive or negative, between the presence/absence of consent and the actual gender of the participants.

[MSpencer]

It's tough to be anything but accepting and consider yourself a relatively moral or even nearly open-minded person. I've found that a person's sexuality is no grounds to judge them. I would expect that everyone else would feel the same way, but I do know we have some very close-minded bible-thumpers who would think otherwise. I consider myself a multiculturalist and an open minded individual, and I think to be intolerant of another sexuality would be rather hypocritical of me. The reasons for being so intolerant of other sexualities tend to be very, very bad reasons, and ultimately result from a distorted world view. The vast majority of modern society has rejected racism as being closed-minded and distorted, so why are we so intolerant of sexualities? In the United States, your future in the public eye can be ruined by slanderous allegations of homosexuality. Teachers are still pressured to resign if it is uncovered that they are homosexual. We are ultimately a very intolerant country which still uses the word "gay" as a pejorative, and there are no prospects for improvement when even the left social libertarians who are supposed to promote acceptance do not believe that homosexuals should be afforded the same rights as heterosexuals.

Can anyone really make a case for homosexuality being morally repulsive? If so, how is it any more morally repulsive than heterosexuality? Homosexuality has been observed in certain primate species and in other species outside the group as well, so the "it's natural" excuse for being a closed-minded pseudo-fascist are out the window. The whole god says it's wrong thing, as argued against by Caspa, is positively repulsive. Intolerant people have no legs to stand on these days, but we still let them get away with it in the United States and around the world. I have a serious issue continuing to live in a country where I am not completely accepted for who I am, and it just underscores the fact that it is time to leave the theocracy of the United States which is so ruled by some arcane world view of an intolerant, unaccepting, positively ridiculous collection of institutions as the modern Christian church. I'll stop now before I give the bible-bashers more ammunition against me.

Edited by MSpencer, 12 August 2007 - 07:40 PM.

[Starmie]

Very nicely and intelligently put. Though I put in a null vote, I am personally very accepting of homosexuality, and somewhat (though not to the same degree) accepting of the transgendered.

On the religious side of things, frankly I just don't know what to believe anymore. Should I join a religion with the promise of eternal bliss, but which defies every law of physics and preaches that our natural sexual urges are the work of the devil, heterosexual or homosexual? Or should I be an atheist and believe that nothing comes after life and we managed to draw the right evolutionary card out of a deck of billions? Currently I'm an agnostic, but I'd love to believe in reincarnation. In fact, reincarnion is possibly the most credible of any religious or quasi-religious beliefs.

[Hostile]

A persons sexual orientation is not a measurable thing when deciding the merit of a human being. IMO.
But on a lighter note, my wife sent this joke to me today. I had a good laugh. Sometimes it pays to be gay, sometimes quite well.


Four friends, who hadn't seen each other in 30
years, reunited at a party. After several
drinks, one of the men had to use the rest
room. Those who remained talked about their
kids. The first guy said, "My son is my pride
and joy. He started working at a successful
company at the bottom of the barrel. He studied
Economics and Business Administration and soon
began to climb the corporate ladder and now
he's the president of the company. He became so
rich that he gave his best friend a top of the
line Mercedes for his birthday."

The second guy said, "Darn, that's terrific! My
son is also my pride and joy. He started
working for a big airline, and then went to
flight school to become a pilot. Eventually he
became a partner in the company, where he owns
the majority of its assets. He's so rich that
he gave his best friend a brand new jet for his
birthday."

The third man said: "Well, that's terrific! My
son studied in the best universities and became
an engineer. Then he started his own
construction company and is now a
multimillionaire. He also gave away something
very nice and expensive to his best friend for
his birthday: A 30,000 square foot mansion."

The three friends congratulated each other just
as the fourth returned from the restroom and
asked: "What are all the congratulations for?"

One of the three said: "We were talking about
the pride we feel for the successes of our
sons. What about your son?"

The fourth man replied: "My son is gay and
makes a living dancing as a stripper at a
nightclub."

The three friends said: "What a shame... what a
disappointment. "

The fourth man replied: "No, I'm not ashamed.
He's my son and I love him. And he hasn't done
too bad either. His birthday was two weeks ago,
and he received a beautiful 30,000 square foot
mansion, a brand new jet and a top of the line
Mercedes from his three boyfriends.

[Starmie]

Very funny, and deliciously off-topic.

[chemical ali]

I do not care, its their life as long as the state doesn't fund operations or crap like than then its all good for democracy and society.

[Ash]

Regarding transgender, the same thing applies... but I don't want to have any kind of sexual relationship with males that became females..

Agreed. This is why I put A instead of VA for transgender.

I would like to ask what exactly describes 'being respectful'.

I can answer these for myself, though others might say or think differently:

Would it be unrespectful to disclose this state to you when talking to you (assuming now that talking about heterosex in general isn't disrespectful)?

I would consider telling me upfront respectful. That way I could be respectful on grounds I wasn't deceived. If I were to go with someone only to find later they weren't really a woman, I would be a LOT more angry than if I were to find out as we sat down to a first date, sorta thing.

Would hitting on you be disrespectful (even though it would show your attractive potential and should be rather flattering)?

I've been hit on by gays before. I won't deny it does freak me out a little bit, but I don't admit such. I just say "sorry, I'm not gay. Nice to meet you though."

Would two men or two women kissing each other publicly be disrespectful (also assuming that public kissing between opposite sexes is acceptable)?

Public kissing between opposite sexes IS acceptable. So yeah, I see no reason why they shouldn't, whatsoever. Kissing someone you've got the hots for isn't/shouldn't be taboo, regardless of how their gender is similar or dissimilar to yours.

[*]Would it be disrepectful to NOT assume that anyone you meet is heterosexual, thereby legitimizing (sexual) advances of the homosexual kind (assuming sexual advances in general are acceptable)?

I'm not sure how it legitimises a homosexual advance, or why either would be unacceptable or acceptable. By default, I assume anyone I meet is heterosexual unless there is an obvious sign that they are not (way of speech, way of dress, etc).

Unless (and as seems more likely in hindsight) you're referring to it from a homosexual's point of view (as in, they may not assume that anyone they meet is heterosexual). In which case, I wouldn't consider it to be disrespectful. While on some people it's easy to tell they're gay. Others are much less open and obvious about it, and lesbians are even MORE difficult to tell apart for the most part. So, it's gotta be understood that they have a harder time picking a mate than a heterosexual person. Mistakes are gonna be made.

But it also has to be said that there is no correlation, positive or negative, between the presence/absence of consent and the actual gender of the participants.

Wait, what?

I do not care, its their life as long as the state doesn't fund operations or crap like than then its all good for democracy and society.

Well...that's...kind of the right attitude...

[Sûlherokhh]

Regarding transgender, the same thing applies... but I don't want to have any kind of sexual relationship with males that became females..

And i agree with you regarding unconsenting sex. That's just never allright. Period.
But it also has to be said that there is no correlation, positive or negative, between the presence/absence of consent and the actual gender of the participants.

Wait, what?

I was saying, having sex with someone you don't want to have sex with is just wrong.
But this is neither predominant to 'queer' sex nor restricted to it. But misconceptions and surprises of the shaming kind are more common (see below).

Would it be unrespectful to disclose this state to you when talking to you (assuming now that talking about heterosex in general isn't disrespectful)?

I would consider telling me upfront respectful. That way I could be respectful on grounds I wasn't deceived. If I were to go with someone only to find later they weren't really a woman, I would be a LOT more angry than if I were to find out as we sat down to a first date, sorta thing.

Would it be disrepectful to NOT assume that anyone you meet is heterosexual, thereby legitimizing (sexual) advances of the homosexual kind (assuming sexual advances in general are acceptable)?

I'm not sure how it legitimises a homosexual advance, or why either would be unacceptable or acceptable. By default, I assume anyone I meet is heterosexual unless there is an obvious sign that they are not (way of speech, way of dress, etc).

Unless (and as seems more likely in hindsight) you're referring to it from a homosexual's point of view (as in, they may not assume that anyone they meet is heterosexual). In which case, I wouldn't consider it to be disrespectful. While on some people it's easy to tell they're gay. Others are much less open and obvious about it, and lesbians are even MORE difficult to tell apart for the most part. So, it's gotta be understood that they have a harder time picking a mate than a heterosexual person. Mistakes are gonna be made.

It would seem that the main issue regarding how uncomfortable dealing with queer people as a heterosexual is 'comfort', or rather the degree to which one is accustomed to adopt a very different point of view. This is not easy, i agree, as it involves not a small bit of assuming the 'other' role yourself. But it is something we do on a daily basis with other people. The only difference is that it is not as uncomfortable to imagine the POV of, say, a seller of newspapers on the market. And that is because you are already used to it.

The matter 'respect when told upfront' also has two sides. It is of course very decent if someone assumes you are not familiar with 'queer' stuff and gives you an easy time to deal with it. On the other hand, as a 'decent queer' you always run with the danger of getting a really queer response (pun intended). So the fear of discrimination is constantly hanging over your shoulder.
I believe it would also be pretty decent to take that into account when someone is not so apparently queer and you find out much later in a not surprisingly more shaming situation.

Some people also seem to feel disrespected when someone shows up saying 'Hey, i am gay, just so you know', flaunting it in their face.
It's not really different from, say, having different expectations in other day to day situations. Imagine a heterosexual couple getting it on for the first time only to discover that every one had something pretty different in mind when thinking 'sex'.

In this regard, heterosex has the advantage of having at least one smallest common denominator. The praxis that leads to having children is pretty common knowledge and on the minds of many people when the word 'sex' is dropped.
Queer sex has an advantage as well, right on the opposite side of the coin. Since most 'queer' people get their first indoctrination with a hetero-bend, they assume pretty fast an attitude of 'don't just assume anything until you know for sure', which is a pretty modern (though really necessary) stance, much like science is compared to religion.

But i am not saying one is better than the other. I believe it is proper (even if hard at times) to take a different point of view into account when judging people, situations and your own emotional response to them. Just as it is ok to feel uncomfortable at times. Once you get used to it, it can be enriching.

Think of your first day at school. Mine was a horror. But after a while i made some friends. After a while longer i even liked going there.

Edited by Sûlherokhh, 15 August 2007 - 11:18 AM.

[Drewry]

The beauty of a free society is that people are allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

[Verrückt]

My best friend is gay as is my roommate. The only thing that scares me is trans genders.

[Black_Serenade]

I do not mind gays at all... aslong as they don't hit on me . And aslong as they dont show they're love in front of me (holding hands and huggin is acceptable so is a lil kiss on the cheek) i also heard that G bush is trying to enrole capital punishment for gays.... god he gets stupider by the minute. Transgenders scare me also

[Mathijs]

Eh? Capital punishment for being gay?

You're kidding right?

[MSpencer]

Or making things up. Any kind of law like that in the United States would be smacked down from both sides of the aisle. Many of the Republicans are turning out to be gay, but when Democrats are outed, it's apparently a big deal and proves that you should vote Republican. I never quite got what the American fixation on intolerance was...

[Black_Serenade]

You're kidding right?

TBH I wish I was it's ridiculous.

Or making things up.

Or maybe i'm not... it may be smacked down but tbh its America... And its G.W Bush