48 replies to this topic

[Vithar-133]

hehe....by too much, I mean if I can tell you as much as I did in a single post, I guess that either means I know to much, or I would make a fairly good strategical advisor.

[{IP}jimmyman]

alright i have a pretty basic strat for evil men
and seeing as no one uses them alot cause of theyre mostly imcompletion this could be pointless
but i dont think so
ok i start out with 1k here
STEP UNO (one fer people who dont know the card game or spanish ) : i start out by making 2 farms dont matter if its an easterling or a haradrim one, although cuz it looks cool i use both
STEP TWO :i make a haradrim palace and pump out 2 haradrim warriors as fast as possible
STEP THREE : i send them to attack some creeps and make another farm and easterling barracks and save up for one batt of easterling swords
STEP FOUR : after this the enemy usually attacks so i bring back the haradrim and easterling swords and pump out one batt of easterling archers and one batt of haradrim gaurdians because of the large group of spearthrowers
STEP FIVE : i then buy some easterling stables and upgrade, by now you should have enough to either buy a hero or get more units, either way the mahud chieftan is really good despite his lack of spells, or go get some more guardians, swords or archers. and then i buy a tavern so i can upgrade my units and upgrade it to level two so it has forged and heavy. i then upgrade the easterling barracks so i can get the elite easterlings
STEP SIX : usually i freelance it from here and spring off into many different strategies, ive even got a mumak spam up but since the lack of siege and extremely elite units it requires the spam of many units that will demo a building fast, i have found that if you combine a corsair, brigand, and easterling/haradrim sword rush against a heavily defended base with some horsemen in there it really works because i firebomb the fortress with the brigands and corsairs and use the oter units to draw attention. also Khamul is a VERY good hero, able to withstand arrows unlike normal fellbeasts and quickly get him to level 7 so you have the debuffer and screech to destroy an army. and as soon as he hits level 9, put him on foot so as not to get shot down and wate precious money and time reviving him.

[Devon]

cool I think I'll even try evil men now. Only complaint I have though is, when they're complete, rhun and harad will be more definativly split. In other words, you start with a generic fortress which you can break into either a rhun or a harad fortress. Whichever one you choose, it decreases the cost of those units and makes the other more expensive or increases build time or stuff like that. For example, lets say I pick harad. Harad units and now cheaper and rhun more expensive. However, theres a tier two pp spell to even it out so theres no penalties. Once thats done, you would have to probably structure your strat so it favors one of the factions more until you get to tier two, if thats that spell path you want. Looks good for this version though, about to try it out

[Shikari]

good shout yoda , love that idea. Evil men could have 2 harad armies and 2 rhun armies in WOTR to go with that as well

I'm deffo trying out this tacic jimmyman

[{IP}jimmyman]

yea has some flaws though, because the units are still wip and not all can get upgrades which means...protect the hell out of them so they get to level two and as you say yoda, haradrim are the cheaper faction saying rhun wariors have more experience on the battlefield and haradrim being the easily wasteable spam units which is how i look at it
yes get those rhun building but save up some money before doing anything youll need to get loads of haradrim though, very good infantry in large groups

[Dalmp]

My commentary on Econ on RJ maps:
Most veteran players are already familiar with the secondary per-building penalty of econ, but if you aren't, then it's a good read. This link tells it better than I could:

How this pertains to RJ-RotWK:

• RJ econ buildings have a smaller radius than the default. If you squeeze three of them to within about 85-90% of their full circle, you can just manage to hit 3 at once with Industry / Dwarven Riches. The income boost is immense, especially considering that industry-boosted econ ranks up more quickly. An exception to the 'never build below 95%' rule.
• Outposts are always nice as they generate resources without an econ penalty. And they come with an easy upgrade to 3x resources. But they are even more valuable in RJ maps as econ build spots are limited. Controlling them becomes super-critical imo.
• In the early parts of the game, don't build other buildings near econ if you can help it. Leave their full circle of influence untouched and fill the rest of the base first. We're worried that if our econ is destroyed by a harrasser, then finding somewhere to rebuild the econ at 100% efficiency could be difficult given the limited space of RJ maps.
• Lumber mills are probably less useful in an RJ map. Sooner or later the surrounding trees will be cleared and then what? Can't move the mills... :(

Edited by Dalmp, 19 March 2008 - 05:41 AM.

[Myrdin]

is this topic something like " tips and tricks " for strategy ?

[Shikari]

Indeed, it does exactly what it says on the tin.

A while back, Yodawarrior and I started putting together a strategy guide, which for several reasons never got finished. (Time, the fact that both of us are isen players, and a new version of RJ which required different strats)

I can't speak for yoda, but I would say I would still be interested in producing a document that could be included with the public release of the mod made up of strats that people have submitted. So I guess you could use this topic for that

[Devon]

Yeah, it would be great to have some help with it Mostly we stopped cause we really weren't that good with every single faction.

[Myrdin]

the description, up. for MotE, is bad, not trying to intimide, but you made some huge mistakes there

i just tell 2 of them, that are the biggest ( there is a whole bunch of them )

* you said you build both farms, which is ( excuse me for the rudenes ) bullshit. Normall farm costs 500 for MotE player, that the point why there is discount on one faction ( Rhun Harad ) soo the farm gets normal price of 300 as all other, same with other buildings ( and units overall )

*you said you go straight for Easterling wariors . . . . these guys are tier2 units, and need lvl 2 barracks, theres no way you get em without building any other units before them ( 4 archer batalions are enough to lvl it ).

*ok i said this were the main, but i cant help it, to say this. if i follow what you exactly said, you pumped up 2 haradrim wariors, next you write ( in the next step ) thet you get Haradrim guardians. Now : these guys are tier 2 soo 2 harad. wariors arent enough for the building to upgrade ( if you get lancers it take pretty much of them, with wariors a little less, but not just 2 to lvl the baracks ) next, the H. Guardians cost 899 without discount, ( if you choose Rhun ), or 589 ( i may mis the price by 10 more or less ) if you choosed Harad. REMEMBER - YOU STARTED WITH 1k, and i doubt with all this expensis, you would have enough resourcess.

there were some other weird things, but this are the most crucial, and oustanding ones.

If you want ( you guys, shikary, yoda ) a post how to play MotE, then i can do it, becouse they are my most beloved faction. ( i can post 1k tactic and 4k tactic ). though remember they are still the " most unfinished race " soo making the strategy right now is a bit useless

[Dalf32]

now i may be wrong on this, but i think that that strat was made before the two factions were really separated. that would account for almost all of the errors you mentioned

[Dalmp]

I think it's a great idea. Complaints about faction balance are often rooted in not understanding a faction's different strengths and weaknesses, so it can't hurt to better detail them.

What factions are you less proficient with?

[Myrdin]

now i may be wrong on this, but i think that that strat was made before the two factions were really separated. that would account for almost all of the errors you mentioned

thats why i said its the " most unfinished " race. The post was ment for those who d like to play MotE, and think its easy stuff. its a bit of correction.

[Devon]

Arnor and angmar and dwarves id say we need most help on, maybe rohan too.

[Myrdin]

yeh, angmar, since the troll units in this mode ( the troll batalions ) are wierdly weaker than in normal ROTWK, ( and the models are wierdly small, same issue with uruk pikeman, . . . troll smaller than goblin pikeman ?, i think not ), and they cant combine, there needs a good tactic to be done

[Devon]

It's an old theory of mine that winning is 50% strategy, 25% tactics, and 25% intuition. Now, I'm not gonna teach you any strategy as I'll be playing a lot of you in the tournament and they need to remain secret, unless you can manage to find an old replay of mine (and especially if rob comes and reads this thread ). I can't teach you intuition, you either come with that or you learn it through lots of games. What I will teach you is a couple tactics, one pretty basic and one not so much so.

First off, the basic:

Concentrating Fire

Fairly obvious and basic, right? Well, it has some cons that you might not think of that are dealt with in the second tactic. Basically, for any units, if you concentrate your fire, you take out the enemies faster, thus decreasing the number of attacks they can bring to bear against you. This works best against stronger units, but not as much so against very weak units like orcs if your units are stronger. So, use it to take out a troll, some threatening pikes, enemy archers, whatever. If anyone disagrees that this works I can prove it to you



Tactic two: Stancing

Stancing, for lack of a better name () is a good counter against concentrating fire. Basically, whatever unit is taking all the hits you put on defensive, and all your other units on aggressive. This gives you an edge that you would not otherwise have, thanks to your enemy. However, if you enemy suddenly changes which horde they're attacking or splits off their fire, you're suddenly vulnerable until you can change back. If you're not too busy with other microing (I usually am ), this is a good tactic to change the course of a battle. Your enemy probably won't be aware of what's happening.

This is also good for taking out buildings that fire arrows at you: Fortresses, towers, and other level 3 buildings. They attack a defensive horde, and the rest on aggressive tear the building apart faster.






There: Now no one can say I havn't done my part in preparing you all Have fun...

[dojob]

It's an old theory of mine that winning is 50% strategy, 25% tactics, and 25% intuition. Now, I'm not gonna teach you any strategy as I'll be playing a lot of you in the tournament and they need to remain secret, unless you can manage to find an old replay of mine (and especially if rob comes and reads this thread ). I can't teach you intuition, you either come with that or you learn it through lots of games. What I will teach you is a couple tactics, one pretty basic and one not so much so.

You forgot awareness and surprise; if you're aware of what the other player is doing, then u can react to that plan before it can take effect and if u're unaware, then u may be surprised and overwhelmed by something that you didn't expect. Also, aggressiveness is a BIG factor in winning; the best defense is a strong offense since your enemy isn't going to be able to do much if he's pinned in his base and losing farms allover the place.

Generally, in my experience with Yoda (and I have plenty), he just masses combo hordes with archers and either pikemen or swordsmen, usually pikemen iirc and hardly uses any cavalry, if at all. Oh, and be aggressive with him or else his economy will just get crazy and he'll overwhelm you.

Concentrating Fire

Fairly obvious and basic, right? Well, it has some cons that you might not think of that are dealt with in the second tactic. Basically, for any units, if you concentrate your fire, you take out the enemies faster, thus decreasing the number of attacks they can bring to bear against you. This works best against stronger units, but not as much so against very weak units like orcs if your units are stronger. So, use it to take out a troll, some threatening pikes, enemy archers, whatever. If anyone disagrees that this works I can prove it to you

I gotta agree, concentrating fire is basic and incredibly helpful. Just make sure that you don't overkill by wasting powers that didn't need to be used. Also, you gotta be able to prioritize between targets; there are times when an enemy hero isn't as threatening as a horde of units, like when the hero is away from the main battle and the horde of units is attacking something important and vulnerable. Sometimes a person might also use an elite unit as a diversion, so always attack what's the most threatening, and not what's the biggest or scariest.

Tactic two: Stancing

Stancing, for lack of a better name () is a good counter against concentrating fire. Basically, whatever unit is taking all the hits you put on defensive, and all your other units on aggressive. This gives you an edge that you would not otherwise have, thanks to your enemy. However, if you enemy suddenly changes which horde they're attacking or splits off their fire, you're suddenly vulnerable until you can change back. If you're not too busy with other microing (I usually am ), this is a good tactic to change the course of a battle. Your enemy probably won't be aware of what's happening.

This is also good for taking out buildings that fire arrows at you: Fortresses, towers, and other level 3 buildings. They attack a defensive horde, and the rest on aggressive tear the building apart faster.

Yeah, but generally if it's a bunch of melee units going at it, it's best just to keep them in defensive unless they're at a clear advantage and/or there isn't much damaging them, in which case aggressive is best. Keep in mind that stances have no effects on heroes except for their behavior as well before using them, so you usually keep them in normal stance. Also, if you're going to be using diversions, then keep them in defensive stance as well to tie up the enemy for as long as possible.

[Rafv Nin IV]

It's an old theory of mine that winning is 50% strategy, 25% tactics, and 25% intuition. Now, I'm not gonna teach you any strategy as I'll be playing a lot of you in the tournament and they need to remain secret, unless you can manage to find an old replay of mine (and especially if rob comes and reads this thread ). I can't teach you intuition, you either come with that or you learn it through lots of games. What I will teach you is a couple tactics, one pretty basic and one not so much so.

You forgot awareness and surprise; if you're aware of what the other player is doing, then u can react to that plan before it can take effect and if u're unaware, then u may be surprised and overwhelmed by something that you didn't expect. Also, aggressiveness is a BIG factor in winning; the best defense is a strong offense since your enemy isn't going to be able to do much if he's pinned in his base and losing farms allover the place.

I think you're missing out on something here. In my theory, winning any RTS match is 50% speed in manipulating the interface, 30% knowing the balance of the game, and 20% actual strategy and tactics.

I've been gone for a week, so if this is in another topic I apologise, but when is the tournament?

Edited by Ravnin IV, 28 June 2008 - 02:03 AM.

[mike_]

The tournament will commence shortly after the updated BETA is out (IIRC).

[Devon]

You forgot awareness and surprise; if you're aware of what the other player is doing, then u can react to that plan before it can take effect and if u're unaware, then u may be surprised and overwhelmed by something that you didn't expect. Also, aggressiveness is a BIG factor in winning; the best defense is a strong offense since your enemy isn't going to be able to do much if he's pinned in his base and losing farms allover the place.

Generally, in my experience with Yoda (and I have plenty), he just masses combo hordes with archers and either pikemen or swordsmen, usually pikemen iirc and hardly uses any cavalry, if at all. Oh, and be aggressive with him or else his economy will just get crazy and he'll overwhelm you.

Most of that stuff up above falls under intuition. When to attack, how aggressive to be etc.

I use swordsmen, pikemen, and archers in various combo hordes because I really don't like isen cav. With ever other faction I do get cav Why waste money getting wargs that barely trample (if at all...I forget) or upgrade the pit when I can kill the enemy in less time?


@Ravnin now: Bfme you don't need to manipulate the interface much, it mostly handles itself. And it doesn't matter how good you control your peasants if all you have is peasants and the enemy has upgraded elite soldiers...