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#41 Shinobi.

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 08:25 PM

A stone that i think has been left unturned is that a lot of the ring heros people have put forward for good faction ring heros is that few of the would of 1st of all never used the ring and 2nd if they had then they would become corrupted and Sauron would of reclaimed the ring.

Something to think about :p
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#42 mike_

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 08:37 PM

Which basically means even having that game mechanic present is nil :p
It seems to me that finding and using the Ring is pointless...if you're good, and find and use it, then Sauron will eventually ensare you and bind you to his will. If you don't, and he does, then the second Dark Lord will return and bugger all :p
However, if you lot want to continue attempting to change things..fine by me :unsure:
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#43 Guest_SrgInsane_*

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 09:19 PM

Theoden would be a great ring Hero for Rohan,as i said the ring would probebly give him sort of a huge defense bonus, well he is on his horse, also he could give himself sort of summonable horse charge like arwens but way bigger, and maybe a stronger Glorius charge attack, and no bash slowdown for him or troops around him well he is on his horse. Myrdin read the books buddy, Denethor would be a sutible Ring hero for Gondor if not Aragorn or Gandalf.

#44 mike_

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 12:11 AM

Personally, I figure that EA actually got it right with the Ring Heroes - there are only three (maybe four (actually, possibly five)) being in Middle-Earth fully capable of wielding the power of the One Ring, and they are:
-Sauron. Actually forged and wielded the Ring.
-Galadriel. Was a hugely powerful being, and was actually tempted by the Ring.
-Gandalf. Was tempted by the Ring several times, and said himself that he would be more powerful than Sauron if he chose to wield it. However, he also said that he (and any others) that tried to control the Ring would eventually be consumed by it no matter what.
And possibly:
-Elrond. Like Galadriel, was an immensely powerful being and one of the oldest Elves in Middle-Earth.
-Glorfindel. An Elf-Lord, actually a Noldor Elf with the spirit and strength of a Maiar.
So...yes. The Ring was too powerful of an artifact for any mortal Man, Hobbit, Ent, or Orc (including Goblins and Uruks) to wield successfully. Only a being of great mental strength could effectively use it.
EDIT: And even if they could, they would soon be drawn into darkness...so despite the fact Mordor and all her servants could have been overthrown, and good works done through it, it would still return to its roots - darkness.
Cheers,
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Edited by elfhelm.., 24 March 2008 - 12:12 AM.


#45 Guest_SrgInsane_*

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 07:45 AM

i have to agree with you on that EA did get sort of on the spot, I think any magical being or Maiar should be able to use the ring, so here is my new updated list of who i think should be a ring hero.

Gondor-Aragorn-yes i know it seems weird but i think Aragorn would be able to wield it at least to give him more power as a swordsman and commander.
Remember the ring enhances the skills and traits of its bearer.
Rohan-Radagast- being that he is a Maiar he should be able to wield the ring like Gandalf
Elves-Galadriel-she showed to frodo that she could wield the ring, and almost as powerful as sauron.
Dwarves-Galadriel-I dont think any of the Dwarves would make a suitible Ring bearer.
Arnor-Gandalf- Gandalf was around when Arnor was fighting the Witch-King of Angmar he also said that he could wield the Ring just as powerful as sauron could.
Mordor-Sauron THE TRUE MASTER OF THE RING i think Sauron should be stronger then any other of the Ring heros i mean after all he was the one that made it.
Isengard-Saruman- Saruman would be a real cool Ring Hero one cause he would use the Ring to benefit his industry and powers. I think his powers shouldnt be that stronger then they all ready were. I think that he should have faster Recharge times and have a call of hord power, over all Saruman should have some powerful spells to benefit his Industry.
Wild-Balrog- Being its a Maiar it could also wield the ring however i think the Balrog is strong enough should he should get a small health bonus.
Angmar-Sauron
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#46 Devon

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 01:43 PM

Which basically means even having that game mechanic present is nil :rolleyes:
It seems to me that finding and using the Ring is pointless...if you're good, and find and use it, then Sauron will eventually ensare you and bind you to his will. If you don't, and he does, then the second Dark Lord will return and bugger all ;)
However, if you lot want to continue attempting to change things..fine by me :p
Cheers,
-mike



Hence the frodo idea, but whatever :p

The ring cannot share its power...so it would be one of the blue wizards or the other...maybe it could be done so it picks the one that belongs to the subfaction you started with. Gandalf didn't really have much to do with arnor as far as know, but maybe I'm wrong. If we do end up doing heroes for good, I'd say

Gondor-Aragorn
Rohan-Theoden
Elves-Galadriel, Elrond, or Thranduil (depending on which you started with?)
Dwarves-Dain
Arnor-?

Mordor-Sauron
Isengard-Saruman
Goblins-Great Goblin
Mote-Sauron or one of the blue wizards
Angmar-WK or Sauron

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#47 mike_

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 03:00 PM

I don't see the point in suggesting more 'Ring Heroes' as I've already put out the three (five-ish) that could logically have any power over the Ring.
But, not my mod, so..yeah.
Cheers,
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#48 Devon

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 03:13 PM

Well, imo pretty much anyone who had enough will power could at least control the ring, even if they were corrupted. There's some point in the books I think where either Legolas or Gimli says "naught for naught does the enemy fear him", while speaking about aragorn. Gandalf could do it...but so could aragorn, and he's the king of gondor so I think he would fit more. Same goes for Theoden and the dwarves. But, Idk if good factions are even gonna have the option or just get frodo, it's really up to rob.

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#49 Myrdin

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:01 PM

I don't see the point in suggesting more 'Ring Heroes' as I've already put out the three (five-ish) that could logically have any power over the Ring.
But, not my mod, so..yeah.
Cheers,
-mike


may i ask you ( no offense ) : you said only gandalf ( of all other wizards ). Why not other as well ? they all were the same strenght
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#50 Myrdin

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 09:02 PM

Well, imo pretty much anyone who had enough will power could at least control the ring, even if they were corrupted. There's some point in the books I think where either Legolas or Gimli says "naught for naught does the enemy fear him", while speaking about aragorn. Gandalf could do it...but so could aragorn, and he's the king of gondor so I think he would fit more. Same goes for Theoden and the dwarves. But, Idk if good factions are even gonna have the option or just get frodo, it's really up to rob.


henge the frodo idea, and let frodo be served as orc food :rolleyes: ( waagh i hate frodo even more than goblins . . . . hmm no, i hate goblins more, but frodo is next after them ;) )
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#51 mike_

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 11:11 PM

may i ask you ( no offense ) : you said only gandalf ( of all other wizards ). Why not other as well ? they all were the same strenght

None taken. Anyway, thanks for pointing that out - I hadn't considered that. However, it seems to me that the only candidates out of the Five would be either Gandalf or Saruman. Why? Because nothing is said of the Blue Wizards, and Radagast diverted too far from his purpose.
Also, thinking about it, it seems to me that Gandalf is the only Istar left that could feasibly control the Ring to any extent. Between the two of them, only Gandalf was able to both resist temptation to use the Ring and not become ensared by Sauron.
And so, it's been said several times why a servant of the Enemy could not use the Ring - they are all aligned to his will, whether they realize it or not, and would turn it over to him if the time came. So, the Great Goblin, the Witch-King, and Saruman would not be able to use the Ring - only carry it to their Master.
Cheers,
-mike

#52 CIL

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 05:25 AM

Romestamo should have it for Men of the East because Morinehtaur (roughly translated as evil killer or something) would not have used it like Gandalf. He probably shouldn't be with the east at all.

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 29 March 2008 - 02:21 AM.

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#53 Myrdin

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 10:44 AM

wery weird name. i assume that it was given to him by haradrim, or where he gone.
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#54 Captain of Arnor

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 03:51 AM

That's another thing I can't wait to see with this mod: what's going to be done for Ring Heroes. This should be interesting...reading over the discussions, I've gotten many ideas and thought that quite a few of them would be cool, but most of the others were absolute moot. They served no purpose. Why get rid of the Nazgul after finding the ring? The Nazgul served as Saurons Generals, his commanders on the field of battle. They weren't for only finding the ring, they were for doing his bidding, whatever it may be.

I agree with the good units being able to create Frodo and the bad units being able to create Gollum. I think either one of those two should be able to find the ring, and maybe The Witch-King and Galadriel also, if you get them created. They can pick up the ring, sure, but if they die while its picked up then its a free-for-all.

OR, maybe it's Bilbo and Gollum who get to find the ring. Not only that, they get a large circle on the mini-map as to the area where it may be, or some kind of on-screen guide that is basically a hot-cold kind of thing. With the Witch-King and Galadriel, it would be much harder to find it, but with Bilbo and Gollum it would be alittle easier.

You return the ring to the fortress, as per normal gameplay...but here is where it differs. I picture the player being given two choices: to make a ring hero OR powering up existing heroes.

--Good ring heroes--
Gondor: definately Isildur or Elendil.
Elves: Gil-Galad, ALL THE WAY. Even an idiot could get this - Gil-Galad was the most powerful Elf, so he should be their Ring Hero.
Rohan: Eorl the Young, maybe? ~Shrugs~ Not an expert on Rohan.
Dwarves: Durin the Deathless.
Arnor: Elros Tar-Minyatur, first king of Numenor, or Vardamir Nólimon, Elros' oldest son and heir.

--Evil ring heroes--
Mordor: Keep Sauron.
Goblins: Either a Balrog, or...lost here. No idea.
Angmar: Sauron, once more. Or perhaps replace the old version of The Witch-King with an ultra-godly version.
Isengard: Once again, no idea. More learned minds then mine will find this one out.
Men of the East: I'm thinking...Fuinur perhaps? Or maybe Herumor? Both are good choices.

Now, if you choose your heroes getting beefed up, only one hero gets the bonuses. Maybe only a few factions, who are truly powerful, get this option.

--Good heroes--
Gondor: Easy one: Aragorn, or maybe Gandalf. Since Aragorn is the Lord of men, I think Aragorn.
Elves: Glorfindel, or Elrond. Perhaps Galadriel.
Rohan: Not sure about these guys...they would be done in too quickly by the ring.
Dwarves: Same with these - they would be overcome easily.
Arnor: Arvedui, Last king of Arnor should get the bonuses.

--Evil heroes--
Mordor: Power up the Witch-King, I guess.
Goblins: Seems like they wouldn't be strong enough to handle it - Mordor would trash them to get it back.
Angmar: The Witch-King once more, since he is basically all-powerful.
Isengard: Saruman, if anyone - I think Isengard would be too weak for it too.
Men of the East: Khamul, I guess...~Shrugs~

Feedback, please! Thanks for reading, if you did =D Put alot of thought into this.

I guess the bit about powering the heroes up is okay, now that I re-read it. Two factions, the weakest in their area (in terms of actual lore strength) cannot do anything with the ring besides create a stronger hero, since their current heroes are too weak to master it. And while the other factions heroes are also to weak to master it, they would be able to take it better then the others. Like I said, guys, leave feedback!

Edited by Lord_Faramir, 17 April 2008 - 04:00 AM.

'The Twilight of Man is nigh, and coming ever closer. The days have shortened into cold, forlorn darkness and sunrise to sundown is a bitter struggle for survival. But do not think for a moment that we shall not fight. We shall not go quietly into the dusk. We shall not throw down arms and flee, or surrender. We will go on, we will not falter. And even should we die, we shall make an end that will be remembered for thousands of years. For beautiful Arnor that is, for glorious Númenor that was! We are the Dúnedain, we are the Men of the North, and our foes will remember our steel!'

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My political compass: http://www.political...=1.62&soc=-4.56 (A lot has changed.)


#55 robnkarla

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 06:59 AM

Well, I've been playing around with possibilties of the ring system trying to figure out how I want to use the ring. What I've been able to do coding wise so far:

- Once the ring is one the ground (currently after gollum has been killed) it can only be picked up by heroes
- In this case I'll use Gandalf - it is picked up by Gandalf
- Once it is picked up he has 1 of 2 options, he can either return the ring to the fortress or use it
- When used, Gandalf then gains powers/abilities and/or whatever I want to program.
- But once used, a countdown starts until Gandalf or the hero is corrupted by the ring. The amount of time differs by hero
- Once corrupted, the hero/Gandalf than ignores who are allies and who are enemies. (Dissent emotion). Anyone who approaches him is attacked.
- If returned to the fortress, anything gained from the use of the ring is removed from the hero and bonus are granted for the faction/fortress. On the downside, as long as the ring is in the fortress, the building is slowly destroyed over time.
- For any faction with Nazgul, when the ring is captured and returned to the fortress. Sauron can be called to fight.
- Whether the hero is killed before or after he is corrupted, the fortress is destroyed that held the ring, or Sauron is killed the ring is then dropped to be picked.

I've also changed it so that the ring is not revealed when found and/or dropped. I've been thinking that the system would be along these lines:
- Only heroes can pick up the ring
- A group of heroes when they have they can wield it. Each hero that can use it in a different fashion, and the amount of time to be corrupted can vary by hero
- bonuses and drawbacks are given when the ring is taken to the fortress.

I'm very happy to say I've been able to get the coding to work to grant upgrades when the ring is picked up. It was a pain to get right, but I think I've got it and I'm not sure if this has been done in other mods outside of theory. Some of the benefits I've thought about when wielding the ring are that they are able to use all powers regardless of rank/level. Maybe powers are stronger and/or attack allies in radius as well as enemies. Also, as stated before I want to do the plan where the ring is hidden on the map and gollum and frodo can be purchased as ring searchers (Deagol & Smeagol for Arnor), once they find the ring and it is on the map, then any hero can pick it up.

So while this is quite time consuming this is the path I'm most likely heading toward for the ring system. So what are everyone's thoughts on the following:
- Which heroes should be able to "Use" the ring
- When the heroes use the ring, what should happen to them
- Outside of Sauron, is there any other hero that makes sense to be a ring-hero lore-wise
- What would you like to see when a hero is corrupted (and if you have ideas of how the coding should work, please let me know)
- What benefits/risks do you think should take place when the ring is in the fortress
- What other ideas would you like to see incorporated into this.

Robert J.

#56 Captain of Arnor

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 07:21 AM

Perfect. That's basically what I was thinking, but I also thought that would be next to impossible to do. Corruption was really the very first thing that came into my mind, but then I said to myself 'How freaking HARD would that be to do? Theres no way they could manage it, and if they could then my suggestion will be ignored because it'd just be too hard.' Seeing someone who can actually mod think about doing that is insane. XD

I like the idea alot. The stronger the hero (Gandalf, Aragorn) the longer it should take to corrupt (anywhere from 300 seconds with a Hero like Boromir to 1,000 seconds for Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel, Elrond, heroes of that calibur) but Angmar and Mordor, I say, shouldn't corrupt at all. Rather, they should grow ten-fold in power so that it becomes more like the lore: with the ring, they're next to impossible to defeat. Without it, they're still a power but much less of one: a shadow.

I hope I'm making sense here. Let's see... Certain factions should have heavy restrictions on what they could do with the ring. The Goblins, the Dwarves, Rohan, Isengard...they're all so weak (in lore, mind you) that they would be lost within weeks of coming into contact with it. Gondor (certain heroes, that is), Elves, Angmar and Mordor would all be somewhat more resistant, if not immune in the case of Angmar and Mordor, to the powers of it. Yes, this will create balance issues in the sway of Angmar and Mordor, but when Mordor gets the One Ring back, guess what? Middle Earth is screwed anyways. That's how it went, that's how it should be. When you see the game say 'The enemy has picked up the Ring!' You just think 'Oh well...I'll get it back sooner or later.' It should be 'OH **** ME!' And hopefully, Rob makes it that way.

Keep in mind that this is all just a random idea I'm coming up with as I go along. I'm sure I'll be able to come up with more later: let me know what you all think of it so far.

Edited by Lord_Faramir, 17 April 2008 - 07:24 AM.

'The Twilight of Man is nigh, and coming ever closer. The days have shortened into cold, forlorn darkness and sunrise to sundown is a bitter struggle for survival. But do not think for a moment that we shall not fight. We shall not go quietly into the dusk. We shall not throw down arms and flee, or surrender. We will go on, we will not falter. And even should we die, we shall make an end that will be remembered for thousands of years. For beautiful Arnor that is, for glorious Númenor that was! We are the Dúnedain, we are the Men of the North, and our foes will remember our steel!'

Formerly Lord_Faramir.

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#57 Myrdin

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 10:31 AM

i dont like the idea of super powerfull buffed practically immortal hero roaming the map, killing everything in his path.
the Corruption should be like this, BUT it should kill the hero over time, becose the chance to get down some mega buffed hero would be - fast none, if you need to fight with your oponent at the same time.

The hero should get killed during time, after he gets corrupted, another time should aper- death timer, after he dies he can be resurected again as NORMAL hero, the rign would be dropped at the place of his death.

For the fortress - i dislike the idea of fortress slowly dying, and you cant do anything against it, thats just not right damn, do it soo, that when the fortress does some action ( builds builder, does upgrade, uses fortres ulti ) it take some dmg ( repairing it over time like normally ) soo if you have ring fortress you have to plan carefully what to do, for you might kill your won main building just by buying lets say 4 heroes at same ( close ) time.

the buff should be - the main fortress power gets some mega buffe for example :

Gondor Ivory tower - not that it just reveals map ( as normally ) but it could cast random sunflare in selected area ( random, just for the fun, you would get a AoE circle and have to select area, and at the place there somewhere could lik 3 time at absolute random strike the Sunflare power )

or Dwarven catapult, would have much bigger range and AoE, shooting twice ( first normal, second random again )

the random factor should be count in for it would make the thing a bit balanced ( pre preparation against OP ing ) and add some " nerve / fun " factor - will it hit or will it hit not ? thats the question.

i thin you know how i mean it, of course its just a suggestion. But consider this - slowly killing fortress without chance to stop, slow or repair it, its kinda gay against the player. The ring should be bonus that allows you to do much, to help you win, not eventually make you loose ( for loosing fortress at criticall time would be wery sad )
"Let this scar signify the first blow against the mortal world."
"From this seal shall arise the doom of men,"
"who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own."
"Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit."
"Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control."
"Let the echoes of doom resound across this wretched world, that all who live may hear them and despair."


"Tremble, mortals, and despair! Doom has come to this world!"

#58 myster

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 10:49 AM

you could choose to just not return the ring to your fortress.. would stop the fortress from being destroyed anyway :thumbsupsmiley:

i like most idea's.. I like the fact the hero gets corrupted after a while.. tho what are you planning to do with him after he is corrupted? let him stay put or walk around the map randomly??

I also think there should be an option of taking of the ring, tho this would cost like 1/2 of your health.. this way you could stop your hero from getting corrupted wich means you totally lost control BUT at a heavy price.. imo this should also be the only way to be able to revive the hero after his dead... if he gets killed while corrupted you shouldnt be able to revive him anymore.

Also i agree with Lord_Faramir that letting the enemy get the ring should give some kind of shock effect too you..

and for your questions:

- Which heroes should be able to "Use" the ring Aragorn, Gandalf, Saruman, The blue wizards, the brown wizard, Elrond, Galadriel, Thandruil, Dain, witchking
- When the heroes use the ring, what should happen to them let all powers be available + getting 1 ULTRA power
- Outside of Sauron, is there any other hero that makes sense to be a ring-hero lore-wise Im guessing on Gandalf here.. he was the strongest maiar on middle earth besides Sauron
- What would you like to see when a hero is corrupted (and if you have ideas of how the coding should work, please let me know)What you said
- What benefits/risks do you think should take place when the ring is in the fortressWhat you said, tho being able to recruit the ringhero wich would remove all risks again

#59 Srg Insane

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 05:58 PM

So far i like Robs system, however a timer for how long they can use the ring before being corrupted just dosnt sit well in my gut, . It just makes the Ring Hero whoever they are, seem like a summoned hero like the Balrog. Also this leaves the bigger picture, of if Mordor gets the ring will they be unbalanced because of Sauron. The way i see it, take away corruption, for me it just takes away the fun using a ring hero and destroying your enemies and not half to worry if there going to turn on you, it also just makes the ring hero system more complicated. However besides that, here are my list of Ring heros for good factions updated lol.
Gondor-Aragorn, with the ring aragorns blade skills are increased, as also his better blade mastery, a full Army of the Dead power like the 25pp and better Athelas. Has default Area of Effect attack
Rohan-Theoden, has Superb horse riding skills, all horsemen around him are immune to pike damage and have no slowdown, has no area of effect attack has a blademastery power like aragorn. However to balance, is weak to other heros.
Arnor-Elrond, faster recharge times, better health, stronger powers, Default Area of effect attack
Dwarves-Gimli, Tanking hero but basicly the same and slower with lots of health and Earthquake attack. A large default Area of Effect attack
Elves-Gorfindal- Superfast attacks, with a mid-to-high health range for a Ring Hero. Should have strong sword attack that can take down heros and monsters. No default Area of Effect attack

#60 Captain of Arnor

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 06:39 PM

Yes, if Mordor or Angmar gets the ring, that is the point. Unbalanced. That's what we want, or I want atleast. Like I said in my post above (which I hope people read) normally, when you hear 'The enemy has the Ring!' Or 'The enemies taken the Ring!!' You're just like, 'Alright, no big deal. I'll get it back soon.' What I'm looking for is, when you hear that, you pound your fist on your desk and say 'Jesus ****ing CHRIST!' Because you know stuffs about to go down.

And if Mordor or Angmar had gotten the One Ring, do you really think things would have been balanced at ALL? No. Not in the least. Unbalance should become a given when Mordor or Angmar gets the One Ring, because they're Saurons/The Witch-Kings factions.

Another thing I was thinking was that perhaps this should be an option. Can't please everyone, and those you can't please can just leave it off. I, for one, will love this option. It'll bring the game that much closer to the books and movie. Rob, if I can help somehow, let me know and I'll be glad to do it. Although I have no experience or talent in modding, I can think up ideas and stuff like that fairly swiftly: most people say that, but I do fanfictions and shortstories about stuff. So...mine aren't really all that bad, I guess.

Edited by Lord_Faramir, 17 April 2008 - 09:30 PM.

'The Twilight of Man is nigh, and coming ever closer. The days have shortened into cold, forlorn darkness and sunrise to sundown is a bitter struggle for survival. But do not think for a moment that we shall not fight. We shall not go quietly into the dusk. We shall not throw down arms and flee, or surrender. We will go on, we will not falter. And even should we die, we shall make an end that will be remembered for thousands of years. For beautiful Arnor that is, for glorious Númenor that was! We are the Dúnedain, we are the Men of the North, and our foes will remember our steel!'

Formerly Lord_Faramir.

My political compass: http://www.political...=1.62&soc=-4.56 (A lot has changed.)





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