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#1 Sheephoof

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 08:56 PM

Hey firstly i'd like to apologize upfront if I come up with an idea that's already been mentioned. I notice some people get sensitive if someone 'steals' their idea, I'll be honest upfront and say I haven't read all the idea threads and I honestly have no intention of stealing anyones ideas :D . I'll try to update this as much as possible :)

Spellbook Powers:

I don't like the idea of lots of different teams having the same powers; seems lazy and untought out on EA's behalf. So here's some ideas to spice things up!

Evil Men

Drums in the Deep 15pp

I'm not sure where goblins have gone (they were my favourite faction) but if they've become evil men, then as a 15pp spell maybe have Drums In The Deep. Summons: two gobin swordsman hordes, two archer horde and a nice custom cave troll unit thats actually good! What would be really neat is if it was chained to a goblin with a fair bit of health, and if you kill that goblin the troll will be released and damage anything and everything. Or it could be a negative leadership spell, opposite to darkness; demoralize enemies, they all lose 30% damage 30% experience and 30% armour.

Mordor

Fires of Mount Doom 25pp (Update 24/09/07)

Imho, gorgoroth spire is a little cheap - not a lot different from the mordor base spell; I prefer some variation. I remember in the old elvenstar mod on bfme1, the 25pp spells would summon a unit that you couldn't see, that would in turn have a powerful spell. That's what I suggest. Using the spell gives you control of mount doom (On the hero selection board). In turn mount doom has a spell called Rain of Fire, which shotes three of those magma balls over an area. Make the spellbook CD 7 mins, make Mount Doom last for 3.5mins and make the fireball CD 1 min. The AoE for the fireballs needs to be quite large, with 1/3 of the damage that gorgoroth spire would do (since you will get three shots in). I really liked the design of the goblin were-worm, who shot that fireball that broke into smaller bits; would be nice to replicate that on a larged scale. If each fireball spell attack had the AoE of sunflare, 1/3 of the damage of the current gorgoroth (thats total damage) and some nice knockback, the spell could really rock! If you wanted to you could even add another spell to mount doom; for example have a spell thats on a 2 min CD (effectively meaning you can only use it once), called Smog of Mordor; it could be a mini darkness in that AoE (like the better version of tanited land). In the book's it says that Mount Doom spurted out the thick black smog to allow the orcs to assualt Minas Tirith out of sunlight. As for whether if would be an anti building spell or anti army, I'd say anti army. Make it so it effects the fort but only very slightly, and of course it can damage buildings just not that great. In turn to balance, I highly employ you to increase the Balrog damage v fort, as Gorogoroth used to be the anti building spell. Any other spells would be cool too... but make sure balance is kept ^_^.


Elves

Whirlpool 15pp

I mentioned this in the other thread, but wanted to include it and go into more detail here :thumbsupsmiley:. There's an elvenship that one death creates a whirlpool. If you could take the animation from that, then make a 15pp spell which summons a whirlpool, which could do one of two things:

1) Basic Idea; just make the whirlpool damage units, and make sure for it to slowly pull enemies near it, unless they move quickly away - so it sux enemies in then shoots them out.

2) Advanced Idea; make it so you effectively summon two whirlpools, anywhere on the map. Any unit, on your team or the enemies, that moved into the first part of the whirlpool would shoot out the other (not taking damage). This could be a highly strategic spell - it could be used to move enemies away from you if summons underneath, but equally you could use it for suprise attacks on your enemies!

Men

Grace of the Valar 25pp

25pp spell to replace earthquake (which can stay for dwarfs). For twenty seconds make all units on the map only take 10% damage. Simple, not too complicated and would make more men's final spell more unique instead of the typical "Base Killer and Army Killer" spells :p

Dwarfes (Update 24/09/07)

I'll try to take advantage of the fact the spell tree hasn't been re-designed yet!

Watch The Skies 15pp

Could replace 'undermine' which I find thoroughly useless. Infact the only time I've seen anyone use that, was when I teamed up with a guy who when I asked "Why don't you attack with some units instead of keeping them bottled behind walls?" replied "Shut up noob, these men has families too" :popcorn: But anyway...

I was trying to figure out a spell that was to do with Dwarfes main fear; the dragons. You could have 50% build speed increase for 45 seconds, with a 2min30s CD. The reason is they work harder for fear of dragons. Actually got the idea off reign of fire, when the guy says to the kids "What do we do when we see them?" and the kids reply "Dig deep, dig hard, and never look back :xcahik_:".

Dragon Bait 10pp or 15pp

Why did the dragons attack the dwarfes? For their treasure. In this spell you could choose a large AoE in which to summon three or four chests of gold at the vert centre of the AoE that add +0 when picked up. Any beast unit (or even more refined, any Dragon unit) must run straight for the treasure when they enter that AoE, ignoring all else. This could be used very strategly for defence; if the treasure lasts 1 min with a 3min20s CD. Once the creature picks up the treasure chest, he can go on to do whatever he wants; if you wanted to be really clever, if there was more than one beast going for it they could fight each other. I'm not sure if this PP would be possible but would be cool ;)

Other (Update 25/09/07)

I have an idea for a new War of the East background; at the moment I don't like the splash screen but I love the background in-game. Why not move the current in-game background to the splash screen and as the new background have filmed footage of action sequences from the mod; like the Elvenstar Mod team did. If no one has any idea how to this, I can send an e-mail to them to enquire further, but it really was a good technique.

-Thats all I've got time for tonight, after school tommorow I'll continue if my ideas are welcome :xcahik_:

Edited by Sheephoof, 25 September 2007 - 08:58 PM.


#2 MorrisB

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 10:05 AM

Hm-hm... another idea guy, aye ? Let me see if you manage to pass my judgement :grin:

Drums in the Deep:

THIS WAS ALREADY SUGGESTED... behind the scenes, by me :dry: ; of course, this isn't considered as a steailing, since I sent the idea to Ithron via PM, so you couldn't see it... anyway, the spell will be most likely used as a Tier 3 spell of Isengard, and will hasten up the production of certain units, plus it will make units in the entire map move a bit faster.

As for Goblins: they were either replaced to the different evil factions (Isengard, Angmar, Mordor) or deleted:

- Goblin Warriors were removed to Angmar
- Goblin Archers were removed to Isengard
- Goblin Spider Riders were removed to Mordor
- Spiderlings were removed to Mordor
- Azog was removed to Angmar
- Drogoth was removed to Evil Men and can be summoned via a Spellbook power
- Half-Troll Marauders were deleted
- Half-Troll Swordsmen were deleted
- Fire Drake Brood was removed to Angmar
- Goblin King was deleted (but maybe will make an appearence in the Campaign, though)
- Shelob was removed to Mordor
- Cave Troll is not decided yet; it will either join Isengard or will be simply a creep unit
- Mountain Giant is not decided yet; it will either join Angmar or will be simply a creep unit
- Fire Drake won't be a faction unit anymore, it will be simply a creep unit

Fires of Mount Doom:

This one is very nice, but further details are needed. How much does it cost ? How does it exactly work (area-of-effect damage, or effects only a simple building, etc.) ? Apart from those, I like it :cool:

Whirlpool:

Emm... sounds nice, but:

1: the second version is almost impossible (or at least very hard) to make. So only the first could be done, but...
2: the Elven Spellbook is already under re-design, and we (most likely) have all neccesary ideas.

Grace of the Valar:

Umm... first, it's overpowered. Even if it lasts only for 20 seconds, this would make the entire faction invulnerable, and that's just too powerful.

Second, we already have a power idea instead of Earthquake, called as "Age of Men". It will greatly boost ALL MotW heroes, in almost every stat: speed, attack rate, damage, armor...

Basically your ideas are quite creative, but most of the Spellbooks are already re-designed (either by me or Ithron).

BUT: don't lose your faith, there's always hope ! Ithron plans to expand the spellbooks (+1 spell for each tier, so +4 spells per faction in total) sometime after the Beta (this will take a lot of time, though), so your ideas have some chance.

PLUS, some factions don't have Spellbook re-designs yet, like Dwarves and Mordor.

You seem to have the skills, so keep your ideas going !

JUDGEMENT PASSED :)

Edited by MorrisB, 24 September 2007 - 10:10 AM.

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#3 Sheephoof

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 05:17 PM

Judgement passed? :grin:

Good to know I got the teriminator of the forums on my side :), I'm glad you like some of my ideas. I'm sorry I'm a little behind on the mod - I dled the wars of the east version back with goblins and haven't had chance to dl the new one yet (do it tonight). I'll give a go expanding on the fires on Mount Doom Spell then; and I'll continue to update stuff. As for Drums in the Deep, I'm personally not to keen of making it speed up production; not very imaginative and already done with that other spell. I agree maybe summoning units isn't right, but i'll rack my brains and have a scan through the fellowship of the ring, and maybe we can find a better idea for a cool spell posibility :dry:.

I'll continue to add new stuff, even if they're not possible the more ideas I put down the more possibilities there are; plus I quite enjoy writing them (nice relief from Shakespeare analaysis in English :cool:).

-Thanks

#4 MorrisB

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 05:40 PM

Judgement passed? :)

Good to know I got the teriminator of the forums on my side :grin:

Hehehe, don't take it seriously, Sheephoof. I'm not a terminator... I'm just an experienced player and suggester, so I can recognize if an idea is bad or good ;)

As for Drums in the Deep, I'm personally not to keen of making it speed up production; not very imaginative and already done with that other spell. I agree maybe summoning units isn't right, but i'll rack my brains and have a scan through the fellowship of the ring, and maybe we can find a better idea for a cool spell posibility :xd: .


What other spell hastes up unit production speed at Isengard :grin: ?

As for summoning, it really wouldn't be wise... for Isengard will possibly have a Tier 2 Spellbook power called "Goblins of Moria" which will summon several battalions of Goblins and a Cave Troll for some time. Also, this spell would be a pre-required spell for "Drums in the Deep".

But a "negative Darkness" you mentioned could also work... or a "combined" spell of buffing and nerfing:

You activate the spell, then Gandalf's voice says: "Drums in the Deep... they are coming...", and then you hear drums and every enemy unit throughout the map have their attack speed and damage reduced - while YOUR units will move faster and receive some bonus damage :cool:

I'm sorry I'm a little behind on the mod - I dled the wars of the east version back with goblins and haven't had chance to dl the new one yet (do it tonight).


You don't have to apologise for this. To be honest, the first version of WotE I EVER played was the "Evil Men Beta" which was released about 1 or 2 month(s) ago. And YES, SERIOUSLY :dry:
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#5 Sheephoof

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 06:16 PM

Judgement passed? :grin:

Good to know I got the teriminator of the forums on my side :)

Hehehe, don't take it seriously, Sheephoof. I'm not a terminator... I'm just an experienced player and suggester, so I can recognize if an idea is bad or good :grin:


Lol don't take my terminator idea seriously :cool:.

As for the Drums in the Deep, with Gandalf's voice I like that a lot. However one think I noticed in the version i'm playing the voices taken from the movies are really scratchy and fuzzy. If you needed any parts of the movie recorded, I can do it of a higher quality and send them to you in an .mp3 file.

-Thanks :dry:

#6 MorrisB

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 06:27 PM

Heh thanks... BUT I'm not the responsible person in matter of voices. I take care of ideas and camapign storyline.

The persons who would be interested in case of audio are Karsh (who takes care of audio) and IthronAiwendil (mod leader and programmer) :cool:

You could PM or e-mail them, I'm certain they would appreciate the help :grin:

PS: nice new details on "Mount Doom" spell. Here are some ideas for spell details:

You "summon" Mount Doom on the selected area. It's like the Eye of Sauron, but invisible and immobile (so enemy units can't see or damage it). You can select Mount Doom via the Hero Board.
Avaible spells from Mount Doom:
- Spit Fiery Boulder (a single fireball, deals great damage in the selected area; small area-of-effect, good against units, lesser damage against buildings)
- Black Smoke Cloud (a cloud of black smoke is conjured over the selected area; allied units become invisible, while enemy units will be greatly weakened in the area of effect)
- Rain of Fire (releases a rain of fire over the selected area; great damage against buildings, lesser damage against units)

I think this would be cool, and it's quite possible to make this.

Edited by MorrisB, 24 September 2007 - 06:43 PM.

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#7 Sheephoof

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 06:59 PM

Awesome - be very careful though, since you got a lot of spells there make the CD long otherwise it'll be OP. Or you can just use the one spell once you summon it, make all three of its spells really strong it different ways meaning it can be used for different purposes each time; however if you want all the spells accesible at each summon make it last around 5min with a 10min CD :grin:

#8 Elendil the High

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 07:02 PM

A great idea about Mt. doom but it is a little tricky to make. The abilities are easy enough, but that it should be Invisible, that is hard to code, you could make invincible insteed.
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#9 MorrisB

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 07:15 PM

@Elendil: The "unit" summoned by "Mount Doom" spell WOULD be invincible, Elendil, like the Eye of Sauron.

But it also HAS to be invisible. Why ? Simple. You just don't wanna' place the biggest volcano in entire Middle-Earth right onto the map, right ? :grin:

@Sheephoof: Well, the easiest thing is to make "Mount Doom" avaible to use ALL of its spells... but only once. So it can cast ALL three spells in a row, BUT the Mount Doom spell lasts only for a short time so its powers wouldn't recharge to be useable again. Plus, once the spell lasts, you have to wait a lot to so the Mount Doom spell can recharge.

Edited by MorrisB, 24 September 2007 - 07:18 PM.

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#10 Puppeteer

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 07:35 PM

"Shut up noob, these men has families too"

LOL that guy was a major pacifist :grin:
Anyway the Drums of the Deep would be a good spell, and I agree that it should make units speed up. I don't see how drums could cause uruks to be spawned quicker. But an overall speed and attack increase all over the map, and enemy debuff, would be a spell with dire effects. I'd use it all the time :cool:

Edited by Puppeteer, 24 September 2007 - 07:35 PM.


#11 MorrisB

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 07:57 PM

@Puppeteer: I originally planned the Drums in the Deep power to hasten up Warg and Goblin production speed (that is quite possible), AND making all allied units move faster (the second effect is the more important).

But Sheephoof inspired a better way of use :) ; of course, if the "Drums in the Deep" would nerf enemies and buff allies AT THE SAME TIME, the bonuses/weakenings would be small so the balance is kept.

But still, it would be very cool :grin:

@Sheephoof:

Watch the Skies:

Weeell... sounds nice, but maybe the effect should be different. Like a temporary boost for buildings, giving them +25% fire resistance and double damage against monsters (including Dragons) or such. If you ask me, the Dwarves wouldn't hasten up the work when a Dragon is coming. No. They would take up their axes, bows, crossbows, haldbers :D ...

(...poor dragon.)

Dragon Bait:

It's surely very original, but certainly impossible to make, sorry :sad:

...BUT there could be something that could work...

Like this:

Places several "fake" treasure chests on the ground, then several dragons (Fire Drakes, perhaps ?) appear seemingly out of nowhere... and they trample and knockback every enemy in their path while they are charging towards the treasures. Once they reach the treasures, they disappear (along with the chests).

Okay, I'm uncertain if THIS is possible, but has greater chance than the one you suggested :xd:
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#12 Sheephoof

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 08:49 PM

WoW I almost like the Dragon Bait idea more than the orginal :D
Would be awesome if it worked :grin:

Also the fire resistance idea would be nice; even make them selected buildings immune to fire damage for a duration; should be a 10pp spell then as its useless are limited and practicly useless v factions like elves.

Edited by Sheephoof, 24 September 2007 - 08:51 PM.


#13 MorrisB

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 01:32 PM

Well, we should ask Ithron if it could work.

The temporary fire immunity or raised fire resistance is not a bad idea. The spell should have a small area-of-effect, so you could raise the fire resistance of either several smaller buildings (like towers) or a single but great building (like the Fortress). This would be nice.
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#14 Sheephoof

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 04:49 PM

Awesome ;) and in conccern to Mount Doom it needs to be invinsiable or just summoned off the map ;) The only way you should be able to select it is on the hero board - with your added ideas sounds like a cool spell ;)

#15 Sheephoof

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 10:47 AM

Update 26/09/07

Added 'Other' Section :)

I think my idea about the background would rock... but then again since it's my idea im biased :D

#16 MorrisB

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 01:20 PM

The background idea - I think - is unneccesary; the mod will soon get a new one upon the new release(s).

Plus, it would be about time to update Mount Doom and Drums in the Deep :D
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#17 Sheephoof

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 02:42 PM

I dunno; I disagree about the background - sometime I find a little bland a single background. With moving units and well filmed action sequences it feels more orginal. Plus you can have it according to graphics setting - very low and low normal backing, medium+ moving picture :D




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