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Gorbachev sets up Russia movement


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#1 duke_Qa

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 12:02 AM

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/7054274.stm

hehe, thought this deserved a notice.

Mr Gorbachev told the founding congress of the Union of Social-Democrats that its mission was to fight against "negative tendencies" and corruption.
[...]
A statement said that "the potential for free democratic choice and political competition is being limited... This is why social-democrats are uniting to fight for the values of freedom and fairness."


this is right up my alley really. its really fascinating to see an old man from the Soviet days come back and say "the system is being limited, we need more freedom". really says something about how far Putin's Russia has moved in the direction of a new dictatorship. hopefully this is one of the first signs that Russia is still within reach of redemption. lets just hope that Putin doesnt make sure that this movement goes to an early grave.

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#2 narboza22

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 12:12 AM

You have to give Putin credit though, the guy has balls. Can't be President any more? No problem, just shift all power to the Prime Minister and take over that job :good:
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#3 Hostile

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 08:51 AM

You have to give Putin credit though, the guy has balls. Can't be President any more? No problem, just shift all power to the Prime Minister and take over that job :huh:

Bingo, someone caught the same thing I did. Renews my belief in the fact people are smart.

#4 duke_Qa

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 10:02 AM

smart he might be, he wouldn't be president if he wasn't. hell, Putin is one of the major persons in politics that i have to say i would be the most scared to have anything with. ex-KGB agent gone president, he knows how things work.

the problem is that if Putin thinks that democracy is something that Russia doesn't need, he will have no problem getting rid of it. he still has followed the constitution and haven't needed to change it to keep his power, but how long can Putin stay in power?

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#5 Phil

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 10:30 AM

The guy is extremely intelligent and that's what makes him so dangerous. I don't doubt that he will have no problems to pull off this shift in power and exploit the constitution to stay in power. It's obvious that he owns the whole government anyway. What we see at the moment is the rise of tsar Wladimir I.

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#6 Hostile

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 04:02 PM

Even Bush fell for it when Putin first came to power, he said they were good buddies. Not so good now.

Now there is a psuedo dictator there with a world known plan to return to power. Can't do much about it.

It's ashame really, russian people deserved more after all they went through...

#7 MSpencer

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 03:14 AM

Putin is expected to essentially appoint the new President. I talked at some length with a Russian immigrant to the US about this, he seems to have no problem with the way the system works ( :( ). Putin will basically nominate this person (don't remember the name) with dubious military contacts as his successor, and he is expected to get the same votes as if Putin himself were running. It's essentially the appointment of a successor, as long as you're a reasonably well liked president.
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#8 duke_Qa

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 02:53 PM

yeah, most of the media is owned by the government, and journalists who does something they don't like generally doesnt do it for long. its not hard to brainwash a people when you're not allowed to criticize the rulers. i just hope that blogs and individuals are able to see through the haze of nationalism and keep it in check.

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#9 duke_Qa

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 01:06 PM

The Defender of a Lesser-Known Guarantee in Russia

The police said his near-fatal beating was an example of racket protection. At the time he was attacked, Mr. Pavlov was seeking to force a state agency to publish the standards used to regulate services and products manufactured in Russian factories.



another good example of what happens to those who try to fight corruption in Russia.

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#10 Hostile

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 07:39 AM

http://www.nytimes.c...e/28russia.html

Don't forget this person as well.

Kirill Formanchuk, like almost everyone who drives in Russia, was used to being pulled over by the police and cited for seemingly trumped up infractions. Yet instead of resigning himself to paying a bribe, he turned traffic stops into roadside tribunals, interrogating officers about their grasp of the law, recording the events and filing formal complaints about them.


The next time he was heard from, he was in the hospital with severe injuries from a beating, and the resulting outcry in Yekaterinburg has caused an unexpected burst of civic activism across the country at a time when such sentiments appeared to have otherwise withered.



#11 duke_Qa

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 08:28 AM

yeah i read that too, but i forgot to post him here. good that you found him too. its interesting to see how people solve trouble by beating up their critics over there.

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#12 Cossack

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 01:25 AM

I must reaffirm my support for Putin.

If what he is doing is un-democratic, then it must mean that democracy is doing what is AGAINST the will of the people.

The fact of the matter is, whether the West agrees with it or not, Putin is doing exactly what the majority of Russians want. He is building a strong and competent Russia.

I personally think he should stay in power. If you argue that this is undemocratic, remember that Putin's approval rating is over 70%. Compare this to the support of Canada's governing party (39%), or George Bush, whos approval is also in the 30%'s.

Putin is what the people want, and governing by the will of the people is what democracy is all about.

#13 Hostile

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 02:04 AM

"So this is how democracy dies, with a round of applause..." ~The Clone Wars

#14 Sigmar

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 02:11 AM

"so this is how democracy dies, with a round of applause..." ~The Clone Wars"


Thats pretty much sums it up. if they russians want to keep putin in power are just asking for a dictatorship, pretty soon the power might go to his head.

Edited by Sigmar, 01 November 2007 - 02:11 AM.


#15 Hostile

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 03:28 AM

I personally think he should stay in power. If you argue that this is undemocratic, remember that Putin's approval rating is over 70%. Compare this to the support of Canada's governing party (39%), or George Bush, whos approval is also in the 30%'s.

Putin is what the people want, and governing by the will of the people is what democracy is all about.

70% approval rating, mmm. And who conducted this poll? Russian media sources? :p

Can you provide a source outside of Russia to support this? Just curious... :cool:

#16 Hostile

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 11:54 PM

My guess, 7-10 years...

#17 duke_Qa

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:07 PM

i had a long reply on this, but i guess my internet failed to post it.

anyway. yeah, don't believe 100% in statistics. especially when its the government who owns the media posting the statistics. i like to think of it as provoking the bandwagon effect. Putin might not have more than 30% of the votes if other politicians were given as much media-space as him. come to think of it, i have no clue about who are good alternatives for Putin. doesn't seem to be any of those around as far as i can see.

anyway, as long as Putin does not use the overwhelming majority of the elections as an argument to get rid of those who are against him, there is always hope. he does alot of good for Russia, but if he is to let Russia go down a path it already has gone, the outcome will probably be the same. And its better to have three steps forward and one back instead of five steps forward and five back

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